RadioFreq

This week, a coworker told me after going to an Auto Show, to keep my eye open for news about Mazda being sued for misrepresenting the horsepower on the RX-8s. And, that Mazda is extending the warranty on the vehicles because of this lawsuit.

Has anyone heard anything about this?

Thanks
RadioFreq

expo1

Since Mazda already compensated the early owners effected by this what exactly is the “loss” that they will claim?

dmp

the issue is Mazda still misrepresents the power output of the engine to it's owners/prospective owners. If it were a class-action, I'd sign up. 1.3L 215hp...that's how Mazda should have marketed the 8. That'd have been 'honest'.

Labop

Yeah, and sueing is absolutly the best way to go. We'll make so much money and feel really good about ourselves afterwards... THAT'll teach them!

Seriously, the only people who "win" in a class action lawsuit is the lawyers.

Leave mazda alone.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

What they should do, is give us back the "A" flash, and a free CAT when it needs it.

expo1

and we get a $500 coupon off the next new Mazda we buy or free oil changes.

Omicron

I'd rather have a free Mazdaspeed super or turbo charger. :D

irish8

I did a web search and could NOT find any current lawsuits on the 8. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't any...it just means I could not find them!!

I have a buddy that works for MazdaUK. I'm gonna drop him an email...stay tuned.

- Irish

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

who cares. the car is still nice in my book. if anythin' i wouldn't mind a coupon for some MS stuff. :D

AQA101

I don't get the point of such law suits. If I buy a car I'll certainly test drive it (unless I preordered it, but Mazda has already settled that case). If I test drive it, I know how it feels and make my decision. If it feels right, it feels right. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. But suing the manufacturer for what is probably a change of mind or just the desire to make a few bucks from a law suit just because you think you can ... I don't even want to be able to understand this attitude.

flip

Labop

Thank you. My point exactly.

If you don't like the 8, the answer isn't sueing Mazda. The answer is to go buy a volvo or something...

MP3Guy

The issue was settled long ago - early buyers of the car could get all of their money back if they wanted if they were dismayed at the HP claims- that got Mazda off the hook for any future lawsuits.

Your co-worker doesn't know what he is talking about.

Paul_in_DC

Huh? Where do you get 215 hp from?

Gord96BRG

The issue is that a few people think that Mazda still misrepresents the power output of the engine. There's been absolutely zero hard proof or evidence offered that this is true - and the burden of proof will be on the complainants to prove the engine is over-rated beyond the legally allowable variances to the published power rating. Once a gang gets a Renesis on an engine dynamometer and runs the tests under the SAE-mandated testing methodology, then someone might have a case. Until then, it's all BS.

Regards,
Gordon

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

can i see some pics of your engine on an engine dyno?

Cam

iTrader: (1)

I thought I heard Racing Beat put the Renesis on an engine dyno and it consistently put out 212-219?

Ajax

They had one on a dyno when we were there. I didn't see any plots but they had the K&N filter on it to test it (so they could decide what to use for their intake)

I would agree though that the car puts out 210-220 horses not 238. Not sure what happenned to those 18-28 horses but I'm willing to bet that they're locked up in that ECU.

Ike

Yep, every dyno run, every 1/4 mile run, and even RBs engine dynos pointing to there being no way it's making 238 at the crank is absolutely "zero hard proof or evidence". You baffle me Gord, I guess ignorance is bliss...

scottmhr1

Since the 8 is just a bit slower than the Z I guess Nissan should be sued too. If the 8 is really 210-220 then the Z must only be about 240 or so. lol.

MP3Guy

Oh, I think the 238 HP corresponds to the trap speeds just fine. In fact, no one questioned the HP figures when the 250 HP rating existed based on the car's performance.

dmp

I pulled the number out of my **** - My reply read: "Mazda should have advertised 1.3L and 215hp" and there would have been ZERO complaints, because the car performs up to 215-220? hp.

There are plenty of replies here - especially one pointing to racing beat's 216hp engine dyno, which suggest mazda was optimistic at best, fraudulent at worst. Look at the boosted performance of the engine...240whp...that's substantially below what I think a rwd car with 238hp + 7psi should be at (with the variables left out for the sake of argument - because I KNOW...I just KNOW some math wizzard will try to reply and 'prove' how it's impossible to guess what power would be, blah blah blah - Trust me. Most of us have around cars long enough to make some educated guesses on power gains with mods.). I simply can't accept what the alternative would suggest - the car is losing 30% of it's power thru the drivetrain.

Don't - please everyone - don't throw the same old rhetoric of "Well, if you liked the car when you bought it, why would you care if it even had only 150hp??"
A test drive is not the end-all in judging a car's abillity to deliver on it's promises.

When the customers are sold product 'a' (238hp), they should not get product 'b' (210-220hp). Simple.

Gord96BRG

Did you miss the part where I specified Run your 1/4 miles and rear wheel dynos to your hearts content, but the 238 is SAE at the flywheel, and no lawyer who doesn't chase ambulances should touch a case contesting an SAE flywheel HP measurement rating without having a competitive SAE flywheel HP measurement of his own.

Further - you obviously also missed the part where I said . From what has been discussed previously, a manufacturer is allowed a 5% variance from the published HP figures before they have falsely advertised. Now, 95% of 238 hp is 226 - so Mazda only has to be providing 226 flywheel HP to be within the variance permitted.

Ignorance must be bliss, and it permits these ridiculous flights of fancy. Come down to earth, and actually KNOW just what the hell you're supposed to be challenging before giving in to this sensationalist crap. Seriously, are you willing to put up a million dollars or more up front for the lawyers to bet that Mazda can't prove their engines are making a minimum of 226 SAE flywheel HP? Get real - we aren't talking about whether the engine actually makes 238 hp, we're talking about how ridiculous it is to suggest that there should be a class action lawsuit over the 238 hp rating. I would be willing to bet that such a lawsuit would fail miserably.

FWIW, RB never suggested their dyno tests were SAE-procedurally compliant. They run their dyno tests for their own analysis, but it isn't to submit a compliant HP rating. Care to guess what differences would result from a modified procedure? Do you think there might be an extra 5 hp to be found from controlled parameters or adjustments to standards? Hmmm...

Regards,
Gordon

roket rider

I can't speak for all of you, but I usually don't push a car to the limit during a test drive, or even push a car hard enough to see if it has enough power to feed my need, i looked in Mazda's brochere to see what the car was capable of, personally, my car has been sitting all winter and it is getting slower by the day in my mind. i have the m- flash and i hate it! I only get 16 mpg - shouldn't we have a 13 second car if its going to suck g asssss like that? Just a thought, i love my car :D

Gord96BRG

When customers are sold product 'a' (0-60 in 6.2 seconds by Mazda's published specs), and receive product 'a' (0-60 in 5.9 - 6.1 seconds by independent testing published by R&T, MT, C+D, etc), where's the problem? How do you KNOW you're getting 210 or 238 hp? If the performance is as advertised and published by the manufacturer, how is there ANY problem?

Why would you care if some bozo who can't control or account for the PCM fail-safe modes that prevent proper rear wheel dyno testing generates only 180 rwhp, when the on-the-road performance is there?

Should Mazda have warned "CAUTION: This is a high-revving engine with a high torque peak. Extracting maximum performance acceleration from this vehicle may require extra skill beyond the capability of the average weekend racer. That doesn't mean that the vehicle isn't capable of this performance, it means that it takes an expert driver to extract that performance, and YOU aren't capable of extracting it".

Ike has to concur that there are drivers out there who can match the magazine test times, Judge Ito and Polak to name just two. He usually chooses to blissfully ignore those and keeps going back to others who haven't achieved the similar times as proof that the hp is missing. Sorry, did someone say something about ignoring 1/4 mi runs?

Regards,
Gordon