Just realizing how horrible the RENESIS is..
It's not just about shift points though. With a rotary you need to wind it up and keep it wound up to get the power on tap; that means frequently dropping gears (often several at a time) to keep it spooled up. That kind of driving would tear up most piston engines, so piston engine drivers generally avoid that kind of driving.
It doesn't reallly take more effort or skill to get power out of a rotary, but it does take a change in driving habits. I can easily see how people test drive an 8 and come away with the impression that it's horribly slow, because they aren't used to keeping revs north of 6,800 RPMs to get power.
Most drivers are afraid the engine will fall apart with that kind of driving, and with most engines they'd be right. Even high-revving short-stroke piston engines can't take too much prolonged redline driving.
It doesn't reallly take more effort or skill to get power out of a rotary, but it does take a change in driving habits. I can easily see how people test drive an 8 and come away with the impression that it's horribly slow, because they aren't used to keeping revs north of 6,800 RPMs to get power.
Most drivers are afraid the engine will fall apart with that kind of driving, and with most engines they'd be right. Even high-revving short-stroke piston engines can't take too much prolonged redline driving.
It's cool... definitely sucked but I had already started thinking about another car at that point so it kind of just helped make the decision easier. I picked up a 2000 Audi S4 and love it. Similar to the 8, I wouldn't say it's the car for everyone but it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
the fuel mileage, OTOH...yeah.
While that is an impressive feat, it's kind of important to look at what that actually translates in to... it's not like we're talking about a large engine here. 122 ft-lb per liter is an impressive number, yet 159 ft-lb as the output is not quite what I'd call impressive.
Now if we were to talk about power to vehicle weight or even power to engine weight, that might actually mean a bit more. Sure a smaller engine might weigh less, but there are more factors than size that determine engine weight.
I'd love to see what the 16x can manage... if that ever makes it to production, it seems like it will definitely have a chance of being the most impressive rotary we've seen.
the last time Rotary received a displacement increase was like 30 something years ago. and it was from total crap (compare to 10A and 12A) to very good (back then)
16x will be cool.
16x will be cool.
I really hope so... I love the rotary but feel that it definitely needs a power increase to stay successful. The rotary will probably die for quite a while if mazda doesn't produce the 16x or if it doesn't yield some impressive specs. From all the rumors, it sounds like it will be a great engine... so now we're stuck waiting to hear news of a production vehicle.
Maybe mazda will surprise us and never release the 16x because they've secretly been developing a 3 rotor version of it instead! And it's fuel efficient!
I can dream, right?
I can dream, right?
Huge hole is huge
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,191
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From: Joplin, MO
Thews8
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,535
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From: Oregon South Coast
At least that's what it says in my Mazda Handbook.
I really hope so... I love the rotary but feel that it definitely needs a power increase to stay successful. The rotary will probably die for quite a while if mazda doesn't produce the 16x or if it doesn't yield some impressive specs. From all the rumors, it sounds like it will be a great engine... so now we're stuck waiting to hear news of a production vehicle.
but releasing something like this right now (ultra shitty economy, no matter what Berneke/Timmy tells ya) for a mid-size company like Mazda is like pure suicide. so I guess we just have to wait until things are better.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 56
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From: Los Angeles
Ok - I've read most of this thread...I'm home with a blown out knee.
Here's my take:
1. OP is kind of young - I'm nearly 47 - so most are compared to me.
2. I've had 45 cars in 20 years. 11 or so in the last 5 years - each customized. And 3 Motorcycles - 2 BMW and Ducati. I'm gay....yes I said it. No flaming - pun intended.
3. I would not drive a Miata - but have a profound respect for the car and the accolades it has received world wide. Especially in the UK etc.
4. My most recent cars 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 05 - BMW 545i (BMW bought it back), 2005 S60R (wrecked), 2006 S60R, 2008 Infiniti G35S sedan, 2004/06/07/08 Jeep Wrangler (don't ask), 2007 Grand Cherokee SRT8, - RX-8.
5. I bought each for different reasons. And those reasons were specific to that car.
6. Each car has merit - none is perfect. Each performed as it should - except the 5 - worst piece of BMW I have ever owned. Each did at least one thing better than the others. Some more...
7. Each cost a bit too much - my fault due to the modding then switching out....but still.
8. Living in LA - while I love HP - I soon realized that 450hp and 425 lb/ft makes no sense when my average MPH is 14 and my average MPG is less than that. And gas is nearly 5 a gallon - and when I had the srt8 it was 5.50 a gallon. I live near Beverly Hills and the roads in LA SUCK. There is a stoplight every 1k feet or less.
9. The absolutely fastest with handling and power (referencing my SRT8 track vids) was the SRT8 - str8 line and tracking. On mountain roads - the Saab carved. Highway driving - the S60R flew and handled. Around down - the 545. Wranglers - well...they were for the mountains that i ski and camp in.
The car I had the least issues with was the Infiniti - minor creaks and the nav locked up and was replaced.
10. I like my 8. It's not perfect...but it's unique. And does what I want it to do for the moment. And it's paid for. And it has a 100k warranty. And it has a great forum with knowledgable, helpful members. Could it be better...yes. But it's an almost 10 year old design - and it still looks and handles great. Could it be worse...yes. A lot. I hate when I see people complain about issues with autos that have 100k on them. Or the MPG is bad - or the HP should be more...or the torque is too low. Seriously...get a grip. If you had done proper research - this would have not been a surprise. Also - these are complex machines and we should applaud good engineering. And the rotary is a fine example of truly doing something different. And Mazda sticks by their product.
11. Comparisons are simply different points of view.
Hence my conclusion to adding to an already uber long thread: Research and then buy what you want. In cars - as in life - there is always some one richer, stronger, faster, more handsome, smarter - etc. Who gives a crap. Live your life and stop worrying about everything else.
Here's my take:
1. OP is kind of young - I'm nearly 47 - so most are compared to me.
2. I've had 45 cars in 20 years. 11 or so in the last 5 years - each customized. And 3 Motorcycles - 2 BMW and Ducati. I'm gay....yes I said it. No flaming - pun intended.
3. I would not drive a Miata - but have a profound respect for the car and the accolades it has received world wide. Especially in the UK etc.
4. My most recent cars 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 05 - BMW 545i (BMW bought it back), 2005 S60R (wrecked), 2006 S60R, 2008 Infiniti G35S sedan, 2004/06/07/08 Jeep Wrangler (don't ask), 2007 Grand Cherokee SRT8, - RX-8.
5. I bought each for different reasons. And those reasons were specific to that car.
6. Each car has merit - none is perfect. Each performed as it should - except the 5 - worst piece of BMW I have ever owned. Each did at least one thing better than the others. Some more...
7. Each cost a bit too much - my fault due to the modding then switching out....but still.
8. Living in LA - while I love HP - I soon realized that 450hp and 425 lb/ft makes no sense when my average MPH is 14 and my average MPG is less than that. And gas is nearly 5 a gallon - and when I had the srt8 it was 5.50 a gallon. I live near Beverly Hills and the roads in LA SUCK. There is a stoplight every 1k feet or less.
9. The absolutely fastest with handling and power (referencing my SRT8 track vids) was the SRT8 - str8 line and tracking. On mountain roads - the Saab carved. Highway driving - the S60R flew and handled. Around down - the 545. Wranglers - well...they were for the mountains that i ski and camp in.
The car I had the least issues with was the Infiniti - minor creaks and the nav locked up and was replaced.
10. I like my 8. It's not perfect...but it's unique. And does what I want it to do for the moment. And it's paid for. And it has a 100k warranty. And it has a great forum with knowledgable, helpful members. Could it be better...yes. But it's an almost 10 year old design - and it still looks and handles great. Could it be worse...yes. A lot. I hate when I see people complain about issues with autos that have 100k on them. Or the MPG is bad - or the HP should be more...or the torque is too low. Seriously...get a grip. If you had done proper research - this would have not been a surprise. Also - these are complex machines and we should applaud good engineering. And the rotary is a fine example of truly doing something different. And Mazda sticks by their product.
11. Comparisons are simply different points of view.
Hence my conclusion to adding to an already uber long thread: Research and then buy what you want. In cars - as in life - there is always some one richer, stronger, faster, more handsome, smarter - etc. Who gives a crap. Live your life and stop worrying about everything else.
Last edited by parkstr8; May 16, 2011 at 05:11 PM.
Ok - I've read most of this thread...I'm home with a blown out knee.
Here's my take:
1. OP is kind of young - I'm nearly 47 - so most are compared to me.
2. I've had 45 cars in 20 years. 11 or so in the last 5 years - each customized. And 3 Motorcycles - 2 BMW and Ducati. I'm gay....yes I said it. No flaming - pun intended.
3. I would not drive a Miata - but have a profound respect for the car and the accolades it has received world wide. Especially in the UK etc.
4. My most recent cars 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 05 - BMW 545i (BMW bought it back), 2005 S60R (wrecked), 2006 S60R, 2008 Infiniti G35S sedan, 2004/06/07/08 Jeep Wrangler (don't ask), 2007 Grand Cherokee SRT8, - RX-8.
5. I bought each for different reasons. And those reasons were specific to that car.
6. Each car has merit - none is perfect. Each performed as it should - except the 5 - worst piece of BMW I have ever owned. Each did at least one thing better than the others. Some more...
7. Each cost a bit too much - my fault due to the modding then switching out....but still.
8. Living in LA - while I love HP - I soon realized that 450hp and 425 lb/ft makes no sense when my average MPH is 14 and my average MPG is less than that. And gas is nearly 5 a gallon - and when I had the srt8 it was 5.50 a gallon. I live near Beverly Hills and the roads in LA SUCK. There is a stoplight every 1k feet or less.
9. The absolutely fastest with handling and power (referencing my SRT8 track vids) was the SRT8 - str8 line and tracking. On mountain roads - the Saab carved. Highway driving - the S60R flew and handled. Around down - the 545. Wranglers - well...they were for the mountains that i ski and camp in.
The car I had the least issues with was the Infiniti - minor creaks and the nav locked up and was replaced.
10. I like my 8. It's not perfect...but it's unique. And does what I want it to do for the moment. And it's paid for. And it has a 100k warranty. And it has a great forum with knowledgable, helpful members. Could it be better...yes. But it's an almost 10 year old design - and it still looks and handles great. Could it be worse...yes. A lot. I hate when I see people complain about issues with autos that have 100k on them. Or the MPG is bad - or the HP should be more...or the torque is too low. Seriously...get a grip. If you had done proper research - this would have not been a surprise. Also - these are complex machines and we should applaud good engineering. And the rotary is a fine example of truly doing something different. And Mazda sticks by their product.
11. Comparisons are simply different points of view.
Hence my conclusion to adding to an already uber long thread: Research and then buy what you want. In cars - as in life - there is always some one richer, stronger, faster, more handsome, smarter - etc. Who gives a crap. Live your life and stop worrying about everything else.
Here's my take:
1. OP is kind of young - I'm nearly 47 - so most are compared to me.
2. I've had 45 cars in 20 years. 11 or so in the last 5 years - each customized. And 3 Motorcycles - 2 BMW and Ducati. I'm gay....yes I said it. No flaming - pun intended.
3. I would not drive a Miata - but have a profound respect for the car and the accolades it has received world wide. Especially in the UK etc.
4. My most recent cars 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 05 - BMW 545i (BMW bought it back), 2005 S60R (wrecked), 2006 S60R, 2008 Infiniti G35S sedan, 2004/06/07/08 Jeep Wrangler (don't ask), 2007 Grand Cherokee SRT8, - RX-8.
5. I bought each for different reasons. And those reasons were specific to that car.
6. Each car has merit - none is perfect. Each performed as it should - except the 5 - worst piece of BMW I have ever owned. Each did at least one thing better than the others. Some more...
7. Each cost a bit too much - my fault due to the modding then switching out....but still.
8. Living in LA - while I love HP - I soon realized that 450hp and 425 lb/ft makes no sense when my average MPH is 14 and my average MPG is less than that. And gas is nearly 5 a gallon - and when I had the srt8 it was 5.50 a gallon. I live near Beverly Hills and the roads in LA SUCK. There is a stoplight every 1k feet or less.
9. The absolutely fastest with handling and power (referencing my SRT8 track vids) was the SRT8 - str8 line and tracking. On mountain roads - the Saab carved. Highway driving - the S60R flew and handled. Around down - the 545. Wranglers - well...they were for the mountains that i ski and camp in.
The car I had the least issues with was the Infiniti - minor creaks and the nav locked up and was replaced.
10. I like my 8. It's not perfect...but it's unique. And does what I want it to do for the moment. And it's paid for. And it has a 100k warranty. And it has a great forum with knowledgable, helpful members. Could it be better...yes. But it's an almost 10 year old design - and it still looks and handles great. Could it be worse...yes. A lot. I hate when I see people complain about issues with autos that have 100k on them. Or the MPG is bad - or the HP should be more...or the torque is too low. Seriously...get a grip. If you had done proper research - this would have not been a surprise. Also - these are complex machines and we should applaud good engineering. And the rotary is a fine example of truly doing something different. And Mazda sticks by their product.
11. Comparisons are simply different points of view.
Hence my conclusion to adding to an already uber long thread: Research and then buy what you want. In cars - as in life - there is always some one richer, stronger, faster, more handsome, smarter - etc. Who gives a crap. Live your life and stop worrying about everything else.
the biggest problem is #10, most people don't do their research b4 they shop, then bitch at Mazda like Mazda lied to them. jesus funny thing is if people hate their car so much, instead of bitching why not just sell it and forget it?
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 117
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From: New Jersey
But they did address everything without question during the warranty years. They kept revising the "flaws" as they went, and pretty much got the car right in the end.
So I dunno, I kinda see it as an adventure, a design experience both Mazda and I have had that I'm grateful for, not resentful. It'll always be the best, most amazing handling, most unique car I've ever owned.
I pre-ordered my Leaf EV when they first opened for sign ups, was it Last year's April ?
but then I cancel it at December. simply because there is not enough charging station in NYC. Well things are looking better right now cuz there is a whooping 6 charging station in the city, 1 in queens lmao.
if they have Charging station all over hell I might replace my Mazda3 with it.
I think this is the wrong thread to be asking that question. You would have much better luck posting in the swap section. Probably read some of the new member threads first and some of the swap threads. That task is daunting. You will need a crazy adapter plate to mate the trans to the engine, or just swap the entire drive train out to the hubs (lots of custom mounting). Electronics will be a big issue too. The project would be very costly and time consuming.
