kidryno

Thanks.

Socr8tes

I think you're just unfamiliar with Mazda's special brand of customer service. It seems they don't always try to resolve the more complex issues on the first visit. Some dealerships figure that if you come back again, it's less likely to be a fluke or a figment of your imagination and they then step up their efforts. This is not the first time I've read stories here exactly like yours. Search long enough and you'll find them.

At any rate, you have a very real issue and the dealership likely did a half-assed job assessing it the first few times. If you suspected this, I'm not quite sure why you continued to take your car there. Diagnosing a car is like diagnosing a person - if you question the tech's competence, you need a second (or third) opinion.

As for the new engine, I believe Mazda has been using new as well as reman units. You won't find the answer for your specific case here.

zoom44

well i was a little late to the program today . but from the research i did this morning i was prepared to tell you that you needed to get them to do the vacuum test again. i pmd you a couple of questions but the answers would be moot at this point.

from the previous notes and what had been done it was clear the wires and coil changes werent going to fix it since they had actually tried that previously when they had also "cleaned the throttle body". its unfortunate that they went thru these steps instead of doing the vacuum check etc this time before attempting the coil change- it would have saved them and you some grief.

at least now they are getting to the real issue.

makes you wonder why any service person in Mazda's employ hasnt been told of the issues that led to the latest recall and the failing engines in various places. I would think that by now any service dept in Florida when presented with a 2004 AT with repeated stalling issues would know what to look at first.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Sometimes I dont understand What Mazda is thinking, isnt it more cost effective to do a Vaccum test than replacing all Coils ?

AdRoCK3217

Yes. But, Mazda is absolutely BY THE BOOK in terms of what they will pay for. If the book says "coils could be the problem" Mazda USA will ONLY pay the mechanic's time and part order if that is the only work done.

If ALL OTHER WORK does not check out, they signal a compression test to be done. In that case, they will pay the mechanic's time and the use of the compression tester.

It's ridiculous, but it is a set list of rules, that, if not followed, will cause the automotive world to spin out of control, and mechanics will end up charging outrageous work hour fees for work THEY think is right.

AdRoCK3217

Conspiracy theory? Are you aware of how a rotary engine works? Do you understand physics in any way shape or form? The faster an object rotates, the more pressure it will place on it's outside form/container..and will try to twist or distort it.

In our case, under heavy load, that means the apex seals will be pressed against the housing with more force than usual, and be able to effectively self-mill(or rather, self-clean) the housings of any burrs and debris.

This is a GOOD THING. This causes compression to stay up, and will generally lead to a longer lasting motor. If you will notice, people on this forum who drive the stink out of their cars tend to have much better things to say about it. They realize they will have worse gas mileage, but at least they don't have high hopes and aren't let down.

People who baby their cars have all kinds of problems with overheating, stalling, needing new engines, etc. However, they also have less problems with transmissions

But, it's all a conspiracy..a conspiracy that has been in effect since the day the rotary engine was born..sigh..

zoom44

it was not mazda's decision to replace the coil(s) this past time - it was the dealer/tech.

typej

Those who keeps saying redlining everyday to keep the engine clean as a definite solution must also believe in replacing water in fish tank everyday instead of fixing a water filter. Source of problem is not a driver who doesn't rev up their car everytime, but a bad engineering that leads to premature wear of engine under NORMAL operation!

Oh yeah, got back from a dealer today for check engine light problem... It was faulty gas cap and was replaced under warranty. It felt weird them not to say something major has to be replaced and ask if I will be needing a rental car, LOL. I still think Mazda has better service than Toyota or Nissan.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

How about this, why dont you try to keep the revs as low as possible, maybe no more than 3K for 3-4 years. Then you come back and tell us is your car(engine) still alive.

Source of the problem is :
Mazda *forgot* to readjust the OMP settings for 5w20 oil. The engine itself has no design problem.

Isnt that a good thing to know ?(that nothing major happens)

For the rental, the more service they give you, the more money the dealership will make.

Toyota, I dont know
Nissan, 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000% AGREED !
Z00M Z00M Z00M ~~~~~

typej

Let me rephrase what I said in less than logical tone... Those who keep saying redlining everyday to keep the engine clean as a definite solution are STUPID.

T-von

Unfortunately Mazda's spec's are sometimes not the best way to take care of your rotary "especially the fuel choice". Even though Mazda recommends premium fuel, it's not the best fuel choice for the average persons driving situations. Does anyone here really know what premium fuel is? Some think it's "better" fuel" because they think it burns cleaner. Wrong! What makes premium fuel so special is the fact that it burns slower. That's it! It's purpose is to lower the chances of detonation in higher rpm's and high engine loads.

NA Rotarys by nature don't burn the fuel /air mixture fully like a piston engine because each combustion event per chamber is covered over a much larger area when compared to a piston engine. Think about what's happening inside your engine when it's granny driven with a slower burning fuel? The slower burning fuel and low rpm's takes longer to burn. This will leave additional carbon deposits behind therefore fouling up your spark plugs and also causing some of the internal compression seals to stick due to carbon lock. I don't care what anyone says but this is exactly why rotarys flood in the 1st place. If you have weak spark and weak compression, you will flood period.

I'm not trying to act like a hot shot, but I have over 16yrs for rotary ownership experience and have owned 4 different Rx7's to back my claims. These engines need high engine loads "which create heat" and high rpm's on an occasional basis to keep clean inside. If your not willing to race the engine from time to time, then performing some carbon cleanings twice a yr will eliminate any future flooding problems.

Now does this mean that premium fuel is bad? No! it just means that it's not the best fuel for someone who cruises around in there NA 8 all the time. Most people who drive the Auto Rx8 granny drive the car like a Cadillac. Not good!

Bottom line don't be afraid to use 87 octane in this car for normal driving. It's perfectly safe and will leave less deposits behind since this fuel burns faster. Even still the engine needs to raced every once and a while. Hell I even use 87 in my stock turbo charged 94 Rx7 and it runs great.

T-von

Then it's obvious you have a ton of knowledge and experience with the engines. Please share your personal recommended carbon cleaning strategy?

GulfCoast

The service department at the dealer in Pensacola said that they had no manuals that needed the engine replacement, only automatics; so, I'm not surprised your automatic needed a replacement. I agree that it seems fishy that your dealership didn't think yours needed one until legal action was threatened (if I read one of your posts correctly). I think there's a thread somewhere here that discusses the engine(s) (at least, where they originate) that may be put in your car. A search might find it; not sure. Good luck.

AdRoCK3217

My personal strategy is to pull the leading plugs, pour MMO or some carburetor cleaner in (liberal amounts), and spin the engine by hand a couple times. Let it sit over night, clean the spark plugs, and start her up!

That and, water injection (about a gallon) once or twice a year is never a bad idea. I've seen some plates come out beautiful (no need to be cleaned) using these procedures..

zoom44

actually thats not correct. Octane does not in any way describe the rate at which the fuel burns or starts to burn or anything like that. It is only a measure of how resistant the fuel is to unintended ignition , called pre-igniton or knock. specifically whether the as yet unburned end gases will spontaneously ignite before the flame front gets to them.

Preigniton/knock can result in less complete combustion and dirtier combustion(along with otehr issues) leaving behind more carbon deposits then a properly and fully combusted fuel. this carbon build up can be the cause of even furthur problems which have been documented already.

Fuel mixes can vary enough that constanly using the lowest octane available may lead you to having less than 87 octane in your tank and very little protection against knock.

playdoh43

this is one of my favorite articles on octanes
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ed...hno/index.html


When fuel is injected into the cylinder, compressed and ignited, one of two things can happen. It either burns quickly and smoothly, shoving the piston down with a strong, even push, or it explodes all at once, releasing its energy in a sudden burst of heat and pressure. This explosion is called knocking or pinging, and it's something engineers like to call "really bad."

Knock is usually ill timed, occurring early in the combustion cycle when the crank and rod are still straight up or even worse, still trying to complete the compression stroke. As a result, all the energy released slams into the top of the piston without actually turning the crank. When this happens under stressful enough conditions-like, 20-psi of boost in a Miata-you start breaking things. Usually the ring lands; however, if your pistons are strong enough, you might get lucky and blow a head gasket.

Octane, for those of you still on the bike, is the rating of a fuel's ability to not do this. The higher the number, the less likely the fuel is to detonate. What this means to us, of course, is the higher the number, the more boost we can throw at that Miata. High-octane gas isn't just for tuners though. Plenty of stock cars depend on the stuff, including a Celica GT-S with its 11.5:1 compression, or a turbocharged WRX or Volkswagen 1.8T.

These cars rely on high-octane gas to keep from detonating. Feed them 91 octane and they won't start breaking things, because their knock sensors will see it coming and retard the timing, turn down the boost or otherwise reduce your chances of having any fun.

Whose fault is it this time, CARB? The EPA? The CHP? None of the above. This time we're being victimized partly by the oil companies, and partly-this is the one that hurts-by ourselves.

You see, when crude oil is refined into gasoline, the refinery doesn't have all that much control over what comes out. Crude oil is full of all kinds of stuff, and a refinery simply separates it, sorting all the iso-this and hepta-that in order of density. The really heavy stuff, like tar, is near the bottom, while the really light stuff, like butane, is near the top.

Somewhere in the upper ranges of the stack are the components of gasoline. There are between 10 and 15 different blend stocks, each with a different octane rating, which are mixed together to make gasoline.

The crude oil being used and little else determine the amount of each blend stock available for mixing. Generally, if you just dump all the blend stocks into a bucket, you end up with something around 88 or 89 octane. If you're selective and only mix the good stuff, you can make 92, 93 or even 95 octane. But once you take out the good stuff, you're left with crap-something like 85 octane. Then you have to leave enough good stuff in the bucket to bring this pee-water up to at least 87 octane. This limits the amount of 95-octane gas you can make. If you make 93-octane premium instead, you use up less of the high-octane stocks, allowing you to make a higher proportion of premium fuel.

In the Midwest, where an extensive customer base of good old boys in pickup trucks consume vast quantities of 87 octane, demand for premium fuel is low enough to make genuine high-octane premium.

In California, however, Lexus-driving executives suck down premium fuel like it's Evian, so 92 was the rule.

CARB isn't entirely innocent. Many of its standards for evaporative emissions and misdirected attempts at oxygenation have raised the manufacturing cost of high-octane gas, but it doesn't seem to be behind the sudden change to 91. Instead, according my super-secret oil industry mole, it all comes back to money. Unocal, you see, has a patent on the 173 easiest ways to make California-friendly 92-octane gas. As a result, every other oil company has to pay Unocal 5.75 cents for every gallon they make using one of these techniques. They haven't actually been paying it, but that's an issue for the lawyers to sort out.

Suddenly it's pretty obvious why our gas sucks, but why doesn't Unocal still sell us 92? Because it can't. In 1997, Unocal sold off all its 76 gas stations, and with them, its ability to decide what kind of gas to make. All Unocal can do now is look for oil, suck it out of the ground, and wish it had some way to make everybody else keep using its patents. You see, not only did Unocal screw us, they screwed themselves.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Then dont do it, drive it like what you need to do to a piston engine.

Come back 3-4 years later. See what happens.

T-von

Spoken like a true rotary maintenance specialist. :

With my Fd, I replace the fuel filter and plugs once a year or every 12k. I also do the water thing "2 quarts per rotor twice a year". The water thing is also good for cleaning out the exhaust/cat converter as my original o2 sensor in my 91 vert is still working "152k miles". Those little things plus a good redlining in 1st and second gear underload once a week does wonders for these engine.


Rx8 owners need to be taking notes.

AdRoCK3217

^^^^^ Sadly, I am too lazy to replace my fuel filters..aside from drastic tear-downs (like when I first acquire an FC -- no matter how well it runs, full tear down to short block, clean and inspect everything, replace all hoses, clean injectors, etc) or when I'm in that area..

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

There is so much absolute crap posted on this board that you really have to watch what you take to heart. Some of the stuff spewed out on the net by "experts" really amazes me.

PerformRX-8

well you're not supposed to baby the car, maybe thats your problem..... you're supposed to be a aggressive with it. but sorry about your problems!

T-von

To what info "Crap" are you refering too?

AdRoCK3217

Well, I think that is a good place to start, no?

ShadowX

Aren't there mod's in this forum? This is the most jacked thread I think I've ever seen. This is like some Honduh forum stuff.

So did kidryno ever get the new engine. I'm curious about what year engine he was given.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Point made.