rx8daniel

Just had my 2nd oil change done by the dealer. The level of the oil is over the fill line. Over the flat part. Into the fat part above the flat (narrow) part where the low/high lines are. I'm guessing, if the volume per length of dipstick is consistent even about the full mark, that it has an extra .5 - .7 quart - so a total of about 7.6 - 7.8 quarts in my 7.1 quart (I believe that's the total) capacity. Does it take more 'too much' before it's really 'TOO' much?

update on my oil change today: "4.5" quarts they added, said it was a hair above the level where it was when I brought in.

BS! I brought it in - I checked it .7 miles from the dealership - with the level .9 quarts low, midway between L and H. Now it's about 1/3" ABOVE 'H'. Over the flat part of the dipstick. that's a little part of what else we (the first owners of the first rotary here in 8 years) "get" to deal with.

mikeb

go to a different dealer next time

rx8daniel

trust me, that's a strong thought. They do have one enthusiast in the svc.dept. - I talked to him later this afternoon; I'll take it back Monday. They'll drain it, add 3 quarts, run it a few minutes, see where the level is. Experiment on mine, basically. Perhaps learn that the owner's manual is correct?! I'm pretty sure at this point the tech(s) just glanced at the service manual (CD?), saw 4.5 quarts not noticing it might not pertain to the 6speed sitting near him, and then added the extra quart.

But what I want to try to get them to understand is that I may not feel too confident in their abilities for really difficult things if an oil change is challenging.

As for another dealer - this one is less than a mile from my office. I just walk to/from most of the time for service. Despite free loaner availability.

meeh

sorry if you might find this a dumb question but, what exactly happens when you put too much oil? is it because it might spill that we should be worried about it?

Chuck Clifford

Its probably the statement in the owners manual that says overfilling with oil could cause engine damage that has him concerned.

rx8daniel

exactly. so the question remains: if one were to (or one's dealer were to) over fill the crankcase, then how much extra in the crankcase begins to be a real problem - 16 ounces, 1 quart, 2 quarts, 3 quarts? Obviously, as I drive it, the amount will reduce. Mine seems to be using around 1 quart per 3500-4000 miles, +/- depending on the aggressiveness of driving. Almost any car will use more under consistent WOT conditions.

Chuck Clifford

If I were you. When you go in Monday, I would have a letter ready for them to sign, stating that they sent you out of there with an improperly serviced car. You don't know that bringing the car up to presure and temp one time has not already done the damage the owners manual warns of. With your major overfill, you are probably submersing engine components that were not intended or designed to be submerged, hence the warning.

Letter should contain time, date, mileage at service, mileage at discovery of problem, technician talked to, advice given, anything pertinent to this event. Including the cars performance prior to service.

meeh

so does that mean you don't have to add oil yourself then, if you go every 3000miles to get an oil change. that's cool.

rx8daniel

whether you feel you don't have add is up to your judgement. Two things are highly important with a rotary : oil and coolant. The 6speed holds 7.1 quarts. If you go 3000 miles and use 1 quart, for discussion, that's approx 1/7th down, or around 14% less than max oil. The full 1.8 to the "L" on the dipstick is 1.8/7.1 or 25% low. I prefer to keep it close to full - say within 10-20 ounces if possible.

msrecant

I got my first oil change yesterday. Just to be sure I checked the car this morning and found it to be substantially above the F line. I called the service writer and he claims that, despite the warning in the manual, that it was done intentionally.

After reading this, and several other threads, I believe I will revisit the issue with the service manager on Monday.

Is anyone aware of a "policy" to over-fill the RENESIS engine at oil change time. It is hard to believe that incompentence is as wide-spread as it appears to be, based on what is reported in differents parts of this forum (a lot of people have been over-filled).

mikeb

I'm sorry but that is BS

have them fix it ASAP

silvercloud

My dealer overfilled mine the first time they did an oil change also. It was about 2 inches over the full line- they put in 5 quarts.

I hope it didn't harm anything.

I noticed it 2 weeks later - right before they put my new oil pan on. The second time they got it right. They didn't give me any "policy" lines about overfilling it intentionally the first time around.

I suppose I'll have to remind them each time I go in for an oil change, and check the level myself when I get home.

Noguni

Yeah, I don't know what's up with the whole oil level story. The oil level was ludicrously high when I picked my car up. (I had them drain some) MNAO's own story was: "oh, that's ok. The engine will consume some oil". My salesperson told me a couple times, I should talk to the service department, saying they said the oil level should be kept above full. ('cause the engine uses oil...)

Well, I never checked with the service department, knowing if Mazda (the manufacturer) intended the oil level to be almost two inches above the "full" mark, they wouldn't place a caution in the owners manual about the possibility of overfilling causing engine damage!

I guess I bitch an awful lot about car dealer service in general (not just mine) because many of the few experiences I've had with dealer car servicing have been negative.

BTW - after two oil changes I found the amount I need to add to be pretty consistent -about 4 quarts and 3 or so oz. to bring the level to "full" on the dipstick. (6 sp) I'm surprised your dealer would have so much trouble determining how much oil to put in. I forget the exact amount the manual states, but I think its something like 3.8 quarts.

KKMmaniac

What the... 'Doh! Last post marked Noguni was mine. "Wha happened?"

silvercloud

KKMmaniac-
That's a good tip. I'll tell them exactly how much oil they need to add next time too.

KKMmaniac

silvercloud - Please note this is the amount I put in, after draining for about an hour, etc., the dealers procedure may yield different results as to what amount will fill to full.

silvercloud

OK

RX-8 friend

What happens when you overfill, or a better question, what damage will result? The oil will move up to the vent (PCV system) and vastly reduce the venting ability as the oil is much more viscous than air. This will allow some pressure to build up in the oil pan/engine. It will also force some oil into the venting system, possibly permenently damaging parts of it (PCV valve for example). The excess pressure in the oil pan/engine can cause seals to start leaking. They will likely not stop after. I doubt one quart will do this, but you never know without trying it out.

Note that some oil dip sticks shipped with early cars were the wrong length or wrong ones. Note also that there is the oil pan recall problem. These two issues -may- have something to do with service departments overfilling. It may also just be lazyness/incompetance. We've seen that before at car dealerships haven't we?

Zoom49

Dealer service is suspect at best IMO. At my first service I had to add 3/4 quart to get it to the full mark. I believe that the new hires at the dealers have to perform the "easy" oil changes.
Just my opinion.

budwei

I damaged a piston engine with excess oil, I used to put always one more quart because the car used oil. I broke the crankshaft seal in the back of the engine, it spilled into the clutch housing doing a mess. I had being overfilling for about 4 months and it started to leak one very cold winter day that I hit the road and wound the engine up pretty hard all the way. To change the seal you have to take the motor apart... so its not a very good deal. Now I prefer to be in the lower level side than otherwise.

I don't know if this applies to rotors, just wanted to share my experience

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

What kind of motor was that?
I've never seen a motor on which you couldn't change the rear seal by simply removing the transmission.

Second, overfilling will cause other damage, but it isn't likely to fail the rear seal.
You will have windage problems, drainback problems, potential pump failure and other problems from submerging oil film-oriented bits.

rx8daniel

To overfill accidentally and claim "it's okay" is bad. To do it and say it was intentional is incredible. I think in our "FAQ" (I've not been around the forum lately and don't know if we have yet or not, but if we have, we should have a WARNING to ALWAYS check the oil level at the dealership after an oil change before starting the car. I've done that since I had my Beetle TDI back in 99 since it a diesel is senstive to overfilling. NO, it's not 'okay' and it's not okay to tell the owner anything besides we'll rectify the problem immediately. I'm not sure what it's going to take for MNOA to wake up - but their official stance on issues with dealers remains basically "we don't care that our dealers don't care about your car" - it's between you, our hopefully loyal and trusting owner, and your dealer who may be as likely to be inept as competent. And the dealer service personnel, in general, quite often really just don't care. They get a printed service order that states 5 quarts (yes, mine said that on all oil changes at my dealer so far), they see an RX-8 but they don't know , or learn, or remember - I'm not sure which - that it doesn't take 5 quarts!! And as I've told others and will tell my dealer, if they can't be trained properly for an oil change, why / how in the world might I trust them with more rotary-specific issues down the road???

budwei

Peugeot 404. I didn't have any of all those other problems that you mention, Just the rear seal