ASH8

Look, I go by History and the past Warranty Claims I used to do for Coolant Entry in the 1970's.

The issue "can" be over time a very slight warping of the alloy rotor housings, which over time can let coolant into the combustion area...coolant entry...99% of all warrant claims were for coolant entry, at around 35K on average.

Back then the factory "unofficially" said warming the engine does improve engine life (1900 RPM), since then there have been RPM restrictions controlled by ECU.

Really, it makes sense, as ALL the HEAT first starts at Spark Plugs and Ignition area of housings, when you could put your fingers on the housing (because there was room with carby models) you could feel the heat and cold area on housings.

Anyway, I know many do not agree with me, that is fine, many suggest just drive off, I don't, I always wait until temp needle moves off bottom to first mark, and keep below 3000 RPM till almost fully warm, naturally OIL takes longer.

zenrx8

iTrader: (4)

15.5K 04 GT 6MT.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah, it was an eye opener for me when I installed the oil temp gauge. At that time I lived about 6-7 miles from work (for a few months) and my car was not completely warmed up by the time I arrived to work even after a few minutes of warm up time in the winter. That is killer I think to an engine. For most of my cars life I had a 30+ mile drive to work and that engine lasted 74,000 miles.

It's hard for some I think who just get in and drive but a proper warm up routine is absolutely necessary.

dodgingwrenches

I've only had the car since June (put 7,000km on it - more than half of that highway doing around 140km/h), so don't know prior history. Now just for the record, if I were driving it like a diesel, I'd be driving it like I stole it. That's what you need to do with diesels as well

I always upshift to keep the rpms low to save gas when I'm driving all city. I know, I know... Sigh.

New Yorker

I bet that's standard copy that you'll find – probably word for word – in the Owner's Manual of every Mazda (if not Ford) vehicle. Because it's a good rule of thumb for 99% of the cars on the planet.
The quote in the Mazda RX-8 Quick Tips Reference Guide applies just to the RX-8. I'm sure it supersedes the Owner's Manual warning you quoted.

I'm also sure that this is no big deal. (Just talking about it makes it seem more important than it really is.) Often these manuals are poorly written or translated. What Mazda probably really wanted to say was "With a cold engine, don't start up and drive your Mazda immediately; make sure it's running smoothly first. This is especially important if you have an RX-8."

That's all.

ASH8

TOTALLY agree 9K...and a warm up routine does not take that long...really, it is kind of cool to get her warm..

Any rotary that ONLY goes short distances is an engine KILLER..., the minimum distance I go is always about 30 mins or 30 miles (about)..

If I need to go to the shops, around the corner, I will always walk, takes 8 minutes, one way, it is good for me and good for my car..lol...Plus I HATE leaving my car in ANY shopping car park...PERIOD....I will always avoid them.

813KR$

ALWAYS WARM UP THE ENGINE BEFORE DRIVING ! ! !

I thought that the most basic of rotary rules ! ! !

ALWAYS ! ! !

Haze

Yeah, but there is warm up and there is warm up. There is no need to sit there idleing in your driveway waiting for the needle to move. It only wastes gas and probably fuel fouls the chambers. Warm up to me means starting the car, waiting a few seconds to make sure that the idle is stable, then gently driving the car keeping the revs under 3K RPMs until the temp needle is in the middle, then you can drive it normally, but not flogging it for another ten minutes or so when everything is at temperature. That's how I look at it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Nope, not on an RX-8. When the factory temp gauge reaches it normal point in cold weather, your oil is only a tad above 100F (and that is in Texas). If you want to drive around normally with your oil that cold you are braver than me.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well 9k, technically, it isn't the oil temperature that matters, but the viscosity.

I would say that there is reasonably a variance in how long you should wait depending on the cold weight of the oil. Wait longer the heavier the cold weight. A 0w40 vs 5w40 vs 10w40 vs 15w40... Once the oil is warm, they are all at 40, but I would feel more comfortable waiting a shorter period of time with a 0w than a 15w.

Of course, this begs the question, how long, or at what temperature, is ideal for each weight? I could easily see each weight warming up at different rates, some being safer than others when "cold", etc... And into that is thrown the monkey wrench of "what is your ambient air temp?", or rather, "what is the starting 'cold' temp of your oil?"


Oil is a religious war...I know

Not trying to start a fight or anything, just more than 1 variable here.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

^ Duh But typically the viscosity is much higher when cold.

Haze

Ever poured oil at 100 degrees F? It pours like water, and all you need the oil to do is be able to flow into high friction areas under heavy pressure. I have 98,000 miles on my engine, and I stand behind what I say. Sitting and letting your car warm at idle is at best a waste of gas, and at worste doing more harm than good. It can be warmed by conservative driving.

Edit: Also depends on your definition of "Normal".

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yup. I'm just saying that there is a difference between 100f 0w30 and 100f 15w40, or any other 2 weights you want to. I am also saying that even if both cars being compared have 15w40, if one is starting up cold in New England with 20f, it's a different starting weight than you might in Texas at 70f.

I would imagine that a 0w40 thins out more gradually from "cold" to "hot", since it starts thin, and every oil thins out as it warms up. A 15w40 probably thins out much more quickly. Both thin to the same point at 180f, but the 0w40 starts thinner. Throw in how thin your oil actually is when first starting from ambient temps, and this changes even more.


What if there was a 3-oil system in the 8? (or future rotary). 1 oil tank of 2-stroke, and 2 oil tanks of varying weights of 4-stroke. A consumer nightmare obviously, but lets ignore that for a moment.

What if there was a "thermostat" which opened or closed based on viscosity (and subsequent probably complicated method of keeping the oils separate upon collection), that attempts to keep the oil at the same viscosity regardless of temperature. Obviously, once warm, the oil coolers do this now, but if cold starts and cold driving is such a concern, is there any way to keep the oil at the right viscosity even when cold?

I am not actually asking for implementation reasons, more to trigger discussion.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Why yes, I have done several pour test, and you cannot determine the viscosity of an oil by a pour test at 100F. I'm not saying your wrong, just that I disagree. You also have to remember that at 100F the additive package is not even working so what is the point of running a good oil if you are not going to use it properly?

When I drive "normally" I want the additive package that I am paying for to be working.

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

"Idling is similarly wasteful in frigid temperatures. Contrary to popular belief, cold-weather drivers needn't warm up their cars for longer than 30 seconds. The best way to raise an engine's temperature to optimal levels is to drive it almost immediately after start up"; according to a study by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation, a car driven for 12 minutes in 14-degree-Fahrenheit weather will achieve the same temperature as one that idles for 30 minutes. However, it's best to avoid rapid acceleration during that 12-minute warm-up drive.

dodgingwrenches

That makes sense. Living in Ontario, which gets very cold, I think I'd be waiting all day for my car to reach operating temperature if I let it sit and idle while it's -30 C out

I let the idle stabilize a little, and then I drive gently. And I drive 5km to work. It's a car. I'm in Canada. We're meant to drive in the hot or the cold. Not going to spend half my winter sitting in the car at idle

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Meh, I'll stick to my routine. I have a real oil thermostat so my oil heats up a lot quicker than a normal RX-8 so it's no biggie. But the idea of cold oil flowing through my rotors housing for any length of time doesn't sit well with me. At least at idle no real damage will occur.

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

I mean no offense by this, but the length some of the owners on here will go to prevent issues from happening to their engine has to be nearing the word insanity. While I understand that a rotary is a different engine than a piston engine, you'd swear by some owners in here that unless you buy an upgraded starter, coils from a different car, replace your cat, change your water pump, pay someone else to tune your ECU for you, rebuild your engine, only use a specific intake, pre-mix with at least two different types depending on the day of the month and the mileage of your last tank of gas, use oil that is made from the blood of Jesus Christ, let your car idle for 4 hours in the driveway before it's driven, only turn left on Tuesdays, at least twice a day remind your car that you think it has beautiful hips, etc., that it's going to blow up at least 18 times in the next 3 days. Yes that's an exaggeration, but my point still stands. Some of the people on this forum I think are honestly convinced that their car is going to blow up every single day they go out and drive it.

How do you enjoy a car when you're constantly having to buy the newest and best of something to replace something else for fear that it's not going to run otherwise? You've said it yourself that it's completely luck of the draw when it comes to these engines, that explains why a guy who hasn't popped his hood in 3 years goes 100,000 miles on his engine while another person who basically cuddles with his engine every single night before he goes to sleep gets 20,000 out of it pops. The Renesis engine is a sensitive motor compared to a piston engine, but I hardly think it's to the degree that some make it out to be on this forum. I'll keep mine tuned up, put the oil Mazda wants me to put in it, follow the maintenance schedule, and see how it goes.

ASH8

Sorry guys, Just a comment here, But I get Sick of hearing about ******* OIL!!!, and OIL Pressures...

Put a good quality Oil in your 8, change it regularly, and FORGET IT.

IT IS SO OVER ANALYZED.

If you believe Oil companies make the hundreds of oil available on the shelves then you are in a Dream World, in most cases it is the same OIL in Different looking bottles and labels.

ASH8

Just read your post after I done mine,,

And HOORAY!!!

The amount of money some guys waste on replacing BRAND new Parts with some so called "superior" crap Made by some "Expert" or Company that is going to improve performance by massive amounts just amazes me...CAT backs are a typical example.

Almost every thing I have read here over the years has done Nothing to the "performance" or reliability of the part(s) replaced.

Khaf

good one

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Too each his own.

I am pretty selective with my mods and don't really do anything unless I think it will improve some aspect of the car. While I do believe the car is pretty good, I don't believe mazda built a car that cannot be improved upon (just look at the changes to the S2).

As far as catbacks and the like, well some people have money to burn and if they want to spend $500.00 to have cool sounding 8 then so be it, as long as they are realistic about the purchase sand what to expect then it's all good.

Personally though I do think changes I have made (SOHN, Oil cooler conversion, etc.) will help my last engine last longer but only time will tell.

Oh, and not to mention I want the fastest, best looking RX-8 in town.

fevest

Well I will put my 2 cents in this. I have a 06 mt. Only had it a few weeks. Previously I had a '80 7. I put 133k on that beast and did nothing other than change the oil. I put one clutch in it and just normal maintenance.
I drove it year round. It had a carb. I drove all winter, except snow. That car would get stuck on a snowflake. Never warmed it up. Started, drove easy and went on.
So I don't see where all the paranoia is on the engine crapping out if you don't baby it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Your RX-7 had the proper amount of oil injectors If you don't plan on keeping your 8 for a long time then it is a non issue, but if your like me and keep cars forever then it is. I'm at 116,000 miles and got my third engine at 96,000 miles. Regular oil changes and by the book maintenance did not help me exceed 100,000 miles on two engines.

Oh, and I love discussing this stuff Oil, premix, engine longevity, all of it

ASH8

Changes made to the S2 were done because of reliability issues with the First Series, from Warranty Claims and issues that come up in the field, nothing really that new, they do it on every model range they have made for the past 35 years...as do many other 'good' car makers.

I just have issues on replacing perfectly good, new parts with "others", like CAT backs, owners are told BS that it will 'improve' performance, when basically all it does is make more noise...and perhaps look pretty..when Mazda spends a lot of time on Exhausts getting it right.

But yes, each to their own.