rodrigo67

So, I get it...

When this clearly faster car isn't so clearly faster in the 0-60 or the 1/4, it's worse in the braking and much worse on the skid pad....then we're talking about 1/4 exit speeds....why didn't you say so Ike....

piNNoy

im located in louisiana if you want info about the rx-8 pm me

Ike

All I said is they're close in a straight line, after you get past the initial traction issues of the FWD Civic they're going to be damn close, that's what a trap speed tells you. Considering publications are getting the same or similar street start times that's another indication. When you talk about how fast a car is when you're talking 1/4 miles, it's always refering to the trap speed. Yes the RX-8 is quicker, technically it's not really faster. Also, you guys love to throw around that 14.5 number, how many owners have run that time? How often do you do 7-8k clutch drops when you're driving around town?

I never brought up braking and the Civic SIs that have been tested with the summer tire option have pulled about the same Gs that RX-8s that have been tested (.91 in C&D). Gs often don't mean a whole lot, but when the SI is getting perfect scores for handling and fun to drive in mag reviews it's pretty lame that you guys are slamming it the way you are.

As a whole so many of you claim to not care about straight line speed. But whenever these threads come up comparing two cars you guys seem to care a whole hell of a lot.

I said if I was given the choice I would pick the RX-8, I never said anything bad about the RX-8 in this thread. Yet you guys have bashed a few other good cars in this thread for no good reason. Once again, grow up!

yiksing

FWD or not, it all depends on the driver. It doesn't make FWD an inferior drivetrain, a Si still has a possibility to smoke a RX-8 on track in cornering. The only bad thing I see in the Si or the EP3 is when honda gave up the double wishbone and change it to whatever it is now.

rodrigo67

Ike, your confusing me for someone else. I never bashed a car because of it's speed. A car does what a car does, and if all we were concerned with was speed, we'd all be driving GTO's and mustangs. I have bashed a few cars on thier looks, or lack of inspirational designs, but thats all objective and everyone has different opinions.

I have a great respect for a cars performance even if it's dog ugly. You have never seen me posts that I think srt's, sti's, or evo are pos. They are amazing machines that are excellent at what they do, even if they looked like they were designed by a kindergardener. I respect what they can do, but I don't have to like how they look.

Same for the civic, tibs, wrx's, rsx's, 350's, s2000's, and others. A scion doesn't run very fast but for the money I think it's an excellent car.

I really don't car how fast or slow the RX8 is. I didn't buy it for speed, I bought it because it gives you the best all around package with very few compromise's. There really is nothing out there that competes with it on so many different levels, which is why so many different cars from different catagories compare them to the RX8. The closest may be the mini cooper s, or an M3 but on a different levels.

I think the kid made the right choice in the civic. You should buy what you want, not what you think you should have. I actually like the new civic, and as far as respecting what a car offers, Ike, it goes both ways...

9291150

Ike…your cherrypicking of stats is a joke. Trap speeds are just that, the speed the car is travelling at the end of the quarter. TIMES STILL WIN THE RACE. The RX8 actually shifts into 4th at about 90, where it experiences its biggest dip in its power curve, but it’s momentary. For you to suggest that a Si, which tops out at 129MPH, accelerates just as hard at 95mph as an 8, which tops out at 148 mph, is plain foolish.

9291150

Let me try this again…

Allow me to provide full, real stats, not Ike stats. As a regular flyer, my constant companion is usually one of the 3 most read auto. rags in North America…Road and Track, Motor Trend and Car and Driver. I’ve seen 4 tests of RX8’s and 3 tests of ’06 Si’s, here are their stats;

Honda Si from R&T;
0-60 / ¼ mile/ top speed (non are limited)
6.6 / 15 / 129
6.8 / 15.1 / 128
Mazda RX8 from R&T;
0-60 / ¼ mile / top speed
5.9 / 14.5 / 148

Honda Si from Car and Driver;
0-60 / ¼ mile / top speed
6.7 / 15.1 / 130
Mazda RX8 from Car and Driver;
0-60 / ¼ mile / top speed
5.9 / 14.5 / 145
5.9 / 14.5/ 144

Mazda RX8 from Motor Trend;
0-60 / ¼ mile / top speed
6.0 / 14.4 / n/a

And incidentally, the last SRT4 tested in Car and Driver (Sept. ’05) showed a 5.6 0-60, a 14.3 ¼ and a 150mph top speed. So explain again how a Si is “close” to an RX8 and a SRT4 is so much faster? C’mon man!

And your point that “the Civic SI also very close to the RX-8 in slalom speeds, lane change manoeuvre, and skidpad numbers” …really? That means the Si is very close to the Evo too. The last Evo tested at C&D (Feb. ’05) had a .93 skidpad and a 68.3 lane change, lower than the 72.4 lane change of the RX8, and .91 skidpad (April ’03). And that’s without the supersticky Advans and rock hard suspension of the Evo. Hmmm.

So get over your hate on for the 8, it’s not our fault it’s gotten more praise than your Evo!

Ike

What you just said does nothing to refute what I've said, convenient that you left out trap speeds though. I've already said in this thread that the RX-8 is quicker, but the SI is about as fast. Yes, you're right, the Evo doesn't get any praise...

Also, who's the one cherry picking. The stats you use from C&D aren't even from a production car, just like every early mag test. You conveniently left out the 15.1@93 and the 14.6@96 that C&D got.

Why don't you take your car to the track and see what you come up with. Of course you won't, it's much easier to hide keep blabing on about a time you could never achieve.

<waits for some stupid comment about some silly motorcycles>

playdoh43

hes worse than you Ike, he picks the best times he can find for the RX8, cant say the same about the SI . Motortrend had as high as 6.5s for RX-8's 0-60 speed.

Ike

The funniest part about it is I used stats from the same mag on purpose so I wouldn't have to deal with some fanboi claiming I was just cherry picking stats.

playdoh43

why so insecure... only insecure people feel the need to bash other cars. rx8 is clearly the better and nicer car... not to mention the better performer (just not a huge gap like some of you guys would like to believe). And its justified by its higher starting price. Its definetly a class above the SI overall. That dosnt mean the 2 cars arnt comparable... some people seems to get mad just to hear the mention of the rx8 and civic SI in the same sentence..., When the rx8 is compared to the likes of M3 and Corvette etc, you guys sure didnt complain about that.

the OP had hes priorities and picked the car that best suits him, so why bash the SI?... and why is EVO even mentioned in this thread?? besides being part of a petty personal attack? so insecure...

*btw theres nothing wrong with FWD... the civic type R and integra type R beat the rx8 at tsukuba on one of the recent BMI last year... they sure didnt win because they out accelerate the rx8. They are no slouch in the handling department, granted the SI is a far cry from a type R, it proves that FWD cars can handle quite well...

9291150

What issue?

Even if so, I picked four different RX8's from 3 different mags (the only four I've seen). Would that one time you refer to make the other 4 tests invalid?

Stop kissing ike *** playdoh, kinda pathetic.

9291150

Then read it again.

So all 4 tests I used weren't from "production" cars....what??? Now your just reaching man. I showed 4 different RX8 tests, the only full tests I've seen in those 3 different mags, and they all showed identical times in the 14.5 range..."but its not repeatable" says Ike!! Man, you couldn't be more pathetic.

And the car that did 15.1 later did a 14.5. Most tests take the best of three runs, should they start posting their worst runs Ike? I have yet to see a 05/06 test with all recent flashes, I betcha they'd easily repeat or better.

And motorcycles aren't silly man, don't even go there especially of you don't have the ***** to ride one.

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

I love the term "fanboi," because it always comes from somehow who is inexplicably a member here but doesn't own an 8. That alone is not necessarily damning, but please... you're on a website run and populated almost exclusively by RX-8 owners... and you want to bitch that we prefer RX-8's to other cars? I mean, what did you expect? That in every discussion where you're busy pounding the Turbo Bible, preaching that we're all idiots for not buying an Evo/SRT-4/Whatever, we're all just supposed to say "OMG ur so right ike are cars is teh slo LOLZ!!1" If you don't like it, well, you've got Evo and Civic forums to go pollute. Go see what happens in all the "car x vs. car y" threads there... I hope you're not expecting an unbiased analysis.

9291150 presented stats from three different magazines. He posted the same stats Ike mentioned, namely quarter mile, 0-60, and slalom. How is that cherrypicking the stats? You cannot possibly claim he didn't use a wide information base or omit anything anyone else didn't. Quit it with your own versions of reality.

Razpewton

I go with the civic,

vapourit

I owned a civic Si for 5 years, I test drove the New Si and I bought a new 05 rx8.

My thoughts on the old Si.

- It was fun to drive. When lowered with rims it got attention from the younger crowd. Crusing around with my system blooming was fun. It seems to handle well and you could drive the crap out of it 24 hours a day. Good on gas.

The New Si.

- It was more powerful (combo of torque and hp boost compared to my 111 foot pounds) Looked good on the outside and way cooler interior then my old civic. Tight and responsive. FUN to drive. I felt like a lucky kid with a good job (or rich parents) well driving it around.

The RX8

- Compared to the other two, it was weaker of the line then the civic (unless you launch at 4k), it pulls harder then the new Si in 3,4,5,6 (above 4k). It corners like a supercar, the Si corners like a great handling go-cart. The Rx8 brakes are stronger. The Rx8 can pull out of a corner like my friends 60k SLK 350 in second gear, so mazda has done something right. The new civic can not do that.

The RX8 makes me feel successful when I drive it. It gets more looks then the 350z or G35. Certainly more looks then the new Si, even though the new Si looks great (IMO).

In canada, the civic Si base is $26,080. There is no discount at all! and with some options that you get on the rx8 gt it's $28,500. It will have great re-sale. My 05 rx8 was 37,000 after some negotiation. You get way more cool options on the rx8. Homelink is so sweet. So for $9000 more to get an Rx8. Finance rates are better on the rx8.

So there you go.

yiksing

BINGO

PhotoMunkey

I just HAVE to comment, though I doubt what I say will win hearts or sway minds... <sigh>

I test and photograph BMWs for a living. M3s on superchargers, lightweight E46 M3s, you name it. I've driven quite a few "fast" cars in anyone's book. I've driven new Porsche Boxsters on the track on equally-new Potenza RE-01R tires (the BF equivalent of the Yokohama Advan Neovas or Toyo RA-1s).

Going fast at a track is NOT about going fast in a straight line. Fact: FWD with an open differential does NOT put down power well in the corners. Fact: The RX-8 comes with a limited-slip, torque-sensing (TORSEN) differential for a reason. Fact: having nearly the same electric-motor feeling torque through the entire RPM band will make you MUCH faster than horsepower alone.

Porsche and BMW understand handling. They understand flat torque curves. They are damn near untouchable on a track, no matter how much money you've spent on your Honda, or how much weight you've had to remove from it to turn a similar lap time.

FACT: the RX-8 on STOCK Bridgestone RE-040 or Dunlop SP-8000 tires posts nearly identical slalom times to a Porsche Boxster, at 1/2 the price for the base 6MT. FACT: Lightweight, forged 18" wheels, a better suspension (springs, shocks, and anti-roll bars), and a set of Yokohama Advan Neovas or Bridgestone RE-01Rs will put you above .95g ona skid pad, and probably closer to .98. Depending on the weight of the wheels, you might even be quicker to 60 MPH and significantly faster through the 1/4 mile, if you care about such useless trivia. You WILL, however, be completely untouchable on a twisty road!

FACT: In Grand AM ST-class racing, the last two years' championships have been OWNED by the Speedsource Mazda RX-8 team. Look up the series, look at the BMW teams, the Acura teams, the Dodge teams, etc... and LAUGH!

FACT: The RX-8 was engineered by good people at Mazda who were told they could produce a sports car ONLY if they kept the cost down, as Ford didn't want them playing with the high-dollar boys. There is NOTHING in the market for the same cost as the RX-8, or even several THOUSAND DOLLARS higher which will post the OVERALL performance numbers.

FACT: A 350Z or G35 coupe does cost thousands more than an RX-8, even used, and while slightly faster in a straight line, WILL NOT HANDLE as well. Their gas mileage is, as an average, even WORSE than an RX-8 (www.edmunds.com if you don't believe me).

FACT: A Honda sips fuel. It's a corporate mind-set for them. Even the NSX and S2000 get great fuel economy. If Honda had offered the S2000 for a decent price, I'd consider that, but as it costs nearly $9k more, and has two less seats and a smaller trunk. 'Nuff said.

As for the Civic... Are you joking? The "fastest production Civic ever" can't break 6 seconds to 60? And that's in a STRAIGHT LINE! Putting the power down on corner exit is what going fast is all about. It even weighs 2877 lbs, or about 300 lbs less than an RX-8! Honda has repeatedly shortchanged the US market, preventing us from receiving its "good stuff" which it keeps at home. This reason alone would prevent me from buying the car, even before I looked at its "bland as a bar of soap" styling. Is it a good "sporty" car? Yes, possibly even the best in its class, before the arrival of the new GTI. Should it even be considered as the same TYPE of car as an RX-8? No.

Should an SRT-4 be considered? That's a factory hot-rodded Neon, so that's your own personal call. They're quick, but don't handle as well by a long shot. A poor man's Evo or WRX STi is how I view them. Great front seats, great tires (you have to realize that's how Dodge is getting to those performance numbers that the SRT-4 does have). On "normal" high-mileage performance tires, the SRT-4 would suck! The first time I opend and shut the door on and SRT-4 did it for me though. I can still hear that "clank"! Great engine and front seats, cheap EVERYTHING else!

I dare someone to call anything on the RX-8 "cheap" (aside from that wierd cupholder lid design!). How many "Japanese" cars are now truly made in Japan? Hmmm, the Evo, the WRX STI, the RX-8 and MX-5...., probably the S2000, but I haven't checked that for certain. Why? Labor cost? Why would anyone think that Mitsu's going out of business when they can assembly an Evo 8 on the same assembly line as the $17k base model Lancer? Last time I checked, that's $15k more for a de-contented interior, and a better engine, suspension, and brakes. Someone's making a killing... Same story at Subaru... Mazda is obviously NOT making a killing on the RX-8, but they do benefit when we buy GTs because of the up-options on the car, which earns them some more green.

Basically, the RX-8 represents the best-handling, best-performing sports car on the planet, viewed on a cost-per-fun basis. Stuff two friends in the back of a G35 and ask them the same question (or one "friend" in the hatch of a 350Z!). If you want/need to go faster than that, get an M3 for $50k and laugh as you blow by everyone on the road not driving a Z06 Vette, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston Martin, and Maserati.

If you want to go faster in your RX-8, start with forged wheels, add sticky tires, and at the least better anti-sway bars! Then, spouse willing, strip out every bit of the interior... Finally, if you're still married, sign up for a NASA HPDE event and start learning how to really drive!

Finally, to close... Winning an internet battle is like winning the Special Olympics... sure you get a medal, but you're still retarded! Doubly so if you think a Civic Si is a sports car!

StewC625

I think it simply comes down to this:

Do you want:

a) A purpose-built sports car?

b) A hopped up econobox?

Now that said, I have driven the new Civic SI and it is a seriously fun car.

But,

it's a freakin' Civic - it shares the name with the proud crowd of econoboxes driven by young girls in college, starving Birkenstock wearing artists, and train-station commuters.

When people ask you, you have to always explain yourself - "Well, I drive a Civic. Oh, but it's the sports verison of it - the Si" "Yeah, but dude, it's a Honda Civic".

No excuses with an RX-8.

Note: No science at all was consumed in the development of this post. This post was a feeble attempt at humor by the writer, and means nothing in the overall cosmic fabric. So calm down, Civic heads.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Spot on.

Should be a sticky.

And should be branded on Ike's forehead.

BlueEyes

I'll tell you one thing, when someone tells me they drive a Mazda, I get weak in the knees.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

i dont know how the hell one comes up with the s2k being 9000 more than an rx8 unless you are going base AT (23k) vs the s2k sticker of 32. (btw options are quite few on an s2000, most of them are standard). Comparing an equally tooled rx8 to an s2000 and the difference is closer to $2000

StewC625

BEST POST EVER! Nicely written!

StewC625

To me, it's not a Mazda - it's an RX-8. An entirely different thing.

And just so you know I'm not a professional "Honda Basher" I submit my list of the cars I have owned since my wedding almost 20 years ago:

At the time of the wedding:

His: 1985 Ford Mustang GT - HERS: 1986 Acura Integra

The rest of the HIS list:

1987 Acura Integra LS
1988 Honda Accord LXi
1990 Acura Legend Coupe LS
1994 Acura Integra GSR
1995 Honda Accord (handed over from my wife in 1996) EX
1997 Honda CR-V EX
2001 Acura TL
and now ... 2004 Mazda RX-8

AND Her list after her '86 Integra

1992 Honda Accord EX
1995 Honda Accord EX
1996 Honda Odyssey
2000 Honda Odyssey
2004 Honda Odyssey

and we currently have a 2006 Odyssey on order for delivery in June.

It's not about the brand, its about the car.

BlueEyes

if you're capable of seperating the Rx8 from Mazda, it shouldn't be to far of a stretch to seperate the Civic Si from the Civic Dx.