Nalrac

In my opinion, the RX-8 is the only automobile in existence today that is capable of giving you that twitch in your right leg that desires the feel of a drilled-aluminum pedal while maintaining a superior level of economy and refinement. It goes beyond such competitors as the Lexus IS300, BMW 3 series, and Audi A4 to provide the everyday driver with the option of owning an absolutely breathtaking automobile that keeps the lines and handling of a two-door supercar while offering the accessibility and comfort of a sedan.

I cannot speak for the driving experience myself but I can recite specs. The holy-grail of handling, 50/50 weight distribution, will provide the driver with a handling experience like no other. Coupled with the new naturally-aspirated RENESIS rotary engine it will be unstoppable at the track. Take all of that away and what do you have left? A stunning car that I would buy even without the soon-to-be legendary powerplant! The entire car reeks of speed.

The exterior is magnificently unique and alluring. Swooping lines and delightfully sculpted trim is sure to be the magnetic components of the RX-8. Evolutionary in its design, it is sure to strike a good cord with owners of the RX-7. I don’t feel that the fact that this car IS a sedan will lessen the appeal to hard-core RX fan. It should make it even more desirable. Although, it looks, to me, like the front seatbelts are attached to the ingenious suicide doors rather that to the seats themselves. That may prove to be an annoyance for rear entry and exit when the driver or passenger seatbelts are fastened. We’ll have to wait and see about that. The grill blends in with the rest of the models by maintaining the basic RX shape but the size has been increased. This improves the look of intensity and motion while decreasing drag. The cab has been swept back to give it that “hot-rod” look that creates an above-average amount of headroom in the back. The tail and head lights are beautifully crafted to look machined and functional. Overall, the exterior is a flawless combination of form and function.

As for the interior, mazda stopped just short of gaudy. They have a perfect combination of color-keyed trim and aluminum to make it feel "customized". A great starting point would be the three-spoke steering wheel. It looks so ergonomic and functional it makes you yearn to grab it. Looking through it you see the gorgeous gauges that are dominated by a huge tachometer that contains a digital speedometer. That should be an indication that this engine is made to rev. The air and radio controls masterfully mimic the design of the gauges by displaying everything in an easy-to-use circle format while keeping the digital display at eye level on the upper part of the dash. Everywhere you look you see the symbol of perfection, the triangular profile view of the RENESIS rotor, reminding you that you are sitting behind something totally different. Something many people have never experienced. Something that, if Mazda prices it right, many people will be experiencing as soon as they see this car at their local dealership. Zoom-Zoom as Mazda says, and I agree.

ZoomZoom

I have ALWAYS had tremendous respect for the rotary engine but I have had some reservations regarding its reliability. Having to keep your eye on the oil level and a fuel economy has never been an issue with me. Besides, considering the performance that is achieved with this type engine the fuel economy is very respectable.

What other production engine can boast over 192 BHP per liter? The Honda S2000 produces 120 HP/liter and the Nissan 350Z produces only 80 HP/liter. These cars have fine engines but they simply do not have the horsepower per liter that a naturally aspirated rotary engine can produce.

I just hope that the reliability factor will not be an issue here. I guess if I really thought it was, I would not have preordered mine. :D

Nalrac

Hey Zoom Zoom,

I personally don't think the reliability will be an issue with the RENESIS. The RX-7's only downfall of reliability was the commonly faulty turbo.

I mean, what can possibly go wrong with an engine that has 3 moving parts. Compare it to a standard piston engine and the probability of something going wrong with it seems miniscule at best.

Thanks for the reply

Adam

Grimace

I used to own a 87 RX-7. 180 000 kms, and not a problem with the engine. Only had to add oil between oil changes if I drove it especially hard.
The Renesis will probably use even less oil and gets better mileage, while putting out almost twice the power of my old 146HP rotary. With 15 years more development time, it should be extremely reliable.
The last gen. RX-7 suffered from turbo failures because of the high heat from the turbos + the high engine temps rotaries make. Everything would cook before 60K miles. Lots of owners removed the twin turbos and went with a large, single turbo with far less reliability problems.

Nalrac

Her Grimace,

Great info. I wasn't aware of the reason for the turbo failure. I appreciate the quality update. Thanks.

Adam

spwolf

jesus, you should write press materials for mazda or something... take it easy, nobody drove production version, nobody ever saw production interior (and we already know that most if not all aluminium will be gone)... as to seat belts, they are actually attached to the seats, as discussed here previously.. for the "hot rod" looking back, its actually fast back ;-)

we all hope it will be all that and more :P

Nalrac

Hey there,

It's not easy to take it easy. This car is so close to the way it will look in production (from what I've heard) that the exterior will only change slightly, maybe excluding the rear fog lamp and mirror mounted turn signals.

The interior is a entirely different story. It's going to have a different gauge set-up, dash, seat-belts (which you've already mentioned and which I read after I posted the thread :p ). You seem to be very in-the-know about this so you are probably aware of all of these things already. As for the "fast-back" shape of the rear. I KNEW there was a term for it! :D

By the way, thanks for the compliment. I've considered writing press materials for someone. I just can't find anyone who can refer me to a place that I could do it. Oh well, maybe I'll find some help on here someday.

Thanks,

Adam (aka. Nalrac)

spwolf

hehe

cshepley

That hp/liter figure is a bit mis-leading as rotaries and piston engines are measured differently. The RENESIS is actually more like a 2.7 liter four than a 1.35.

UntouchableRSX

I heard that the rx-7 tt could only take aboy 100k before you would have to swap the engine, is that true?? But I think that this will be more reliable... technology i guess you could call it:D

Jerome81

Untouchable,
That is more or less correct. As you may have seen in many places over the board, the 3rd gen had a very complicated turbo system that was hard to diagnose, but more than anything, the turbos ran very hot (as all turbos do) and that combined with the rotary's tendency to run hotter than a piston, and all that combined with the fact that Mazda simply didn't give the RX-7 adequate cooling (especially with the automatic....even hotter) is why there was such a problem.

I don't think there is a problem with turboing a rotary, it is just that Mazda plain did a poor job in the design. That's what happens when you have to put supercar performance (it was, by nearly all means, a supercar at the time) but make it cost $35,000.

The first generation RX-7, from 1978 to 1985 I believe were incredibly reliable. There are thousands of racers out there still running on original engines at 250,000 + miles. The basic design of the rotary is very well developed, but the 3rd generation was unfortunately just a poorly designed turbo/cooling system.

I too would hope that Mazda has learned the mistakes from the 3rd generation car. I am nearly certain they have and they won't make the same mistake twice.

BTW, I also own a RSX Type S!! I've had it since late August. While it isn't the fastest, nor the best handling car ever, what a fanastic drive, eh? I love mine!! Maybe an RX-8 can join the RSX in a few years

UntouchableRSX

Thanks, that sums it all up nicely.:D

I love my RSX-S. Like you say, its not the best, but it is fun as hell to drive and a well rounded car. Im a honda fan, what can i say? But I would love to have a RX-8 parked in front of my house.

alear

I'm not so convinced by the return of the rotary. I think it is an amazing design that deserves praise. However, I think it may be the cars weakness. This thread worries me even more. We are hoping that Mazda "gets it right" this time. Thats a big gamble.

You should probably know that I drive a Toyota that has recently passed 110,000 miles without a single problem. It is still running the same as the day it was bought. To me that is amazing. Now if people are saying that the old rotary died at about 100,000, then I would have had to replace my engine, an thats not cool.

One thing I will admit is that the Toyota V6 engine is not as powerful as the RX-7's rotary and that makes a big difference on reliability.

Part of me wishes they would have put a high performance piston engine in the RX-8. Not as much uniqueness but probably more reliable.

With all this said, I am still considering the RX-8 on a thinning list of cars that I may buy soon.

Jerome81

alear,
I think there are several RX-7 owners on this board who can say the same thing about their cars as you do about your Toyota.

Unfortunately, I would guess none are 3rd generation owners

As far as a piston RX-8, why bother? The rotary is Mazda, and it is Mazda flagship sports cars. The RX-8 with a piston is just another sporty sedan. The rotary is the soul of the RX-8, and it is the soul of Mazda.

I say everyone should switch to rotary power.

Grimace

Any rotary that isn't twin turbo (even a single turbo is fine) is extremely reliable. Twin turbo set-ups with extra cooling are too.

Don't worry about the Renesis Rotary being reliable. I've heard that they've been available as a crate engine from Japan for a year or so now, and lots of guys are running them in their dune buggies and racing them with zero problems.

ZoomZoom

Who/what is your source on this?

Grimace

I either read it on miataforum.com or s2ki.com/forums. I frequent both of those.

Lots of stuff you read on forums (90%) is BS, so take it with a grain of salt like I did. I do know of a few guys who have used older rotaries (non-renesis) in their dune buggies.

Jerome81

I don't believe the RENESIS has even started production yet. I would imagine that most of those buggies are simply the 13B rotary without the turbos.

Man, if they offer the RENESIS as a crate motor, how many folks with 3rd gen RX-7's do you think will simply replace the 13B STT with the RENESIS? You'll give up some torque, but peak output is just about the same.