Cattywampus

Oh don't discredit yourself. Anyone that has had a conversation with you about politics/law knows how smart you are. I been there.

djkrazy

because of Obama everyone is gonna be driving Prius' .....

"GO GREEN!" ..... whatever that only green that i care about is the green in my wallet

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Here's what is funny about people who drive those and the Honda hybrids; I get passed on the freeway by those guys all the time and I drive +5 over the speed limit. So much for energy conservation. More like human vanity.

Cattywampus

Them smart cars are pretty neat. Drop a gas sipping Hayabusa motor in it and it's the next best thing to the 8. Different administrations will look at other ways to better the pollution issue. I don't think 35mpg cars are it though.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

It all started with the US Civil War (what was civil about it?). The national government has been taking over more responsibility for regulating our lives. The country would have been better off if the South would have conquered the North in some ways (worse in others, this is about states rights and limiting federal rule). Slavery, the reason most historians have given for the war, would have died off in a generation or two due to mechanization of farming.

Flashwing

Some of the most aggressive drivers are driving those cars. I've noticed the same thing.

SilverHokie

iTrader: (1)

Political threads ftw?

So we don't like Obama now because of an energy policy that is finally being developed? I'll keep it light here but come on. The conspiracy theories are exceptionally written and well thought out...but this policy is the end of the stupid dumb Hummers, Ford F650's, Excursions and other vehicles that have no place in a country with a declining economy and fossil alternatives.

I don't believe the rotary will fall because of this. Plus...we wouldn't get as many cool *** toys from BHR to play with.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I didn't like Obama in the first place. Like I said, what EXACTLY is his policy? Obama exists in mere platitudes and bromides. Should anybody demand SUBSTANCE from the man he would crumble. Expect the rest of his term as Prez to be nothing more than a continuous political campaign.
Think conspiracies don't exist? Take a look at your own City Council.
The rotary engine has no political distinction from the vehicles you mentioned in your socio-economic context.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I define Political Posts as pitting one political parties views against the other. The U.S. is basically a two party system and third parties views don't count. Pitting Liberals verses Conservatives would fall into that category. Rants against the Federal government policies as being fair game (as long as party politics aren't brought up). This is an automotive forum. More latitude would be allowed when it is in that context.

Cattywampus

Anyone else hear that huge can of worms that just opened? People are going to diagree because a matter of opinion and what some call misleading facts. The oil issue regarding the big diesel truck/hummers have long been discussed before Obama. is I think it is coming to light more now then before is in part of the Obama administration and because of the struggling economy.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

If only the two major political parties actually HAD conflicting philosophies that define their platforms, America may have a choice regarding their elected representatives. Once Americans come this conclusion, a third party will have an opening to actually be considered a "second party" and possibly achieve the poilitical legitimacy they seek. Of course, I am not including the science of politics and the FEC's regulatory rules regarding same (and for a reason).

reaper1

I just want to be able to drive what i want to drive ........ Not what politicians want me to drive .

Shnifty

If people can afford to drive a big gas guzzling vehicle then they should have the right to. It is often needed for jobs/hobbies/lots of kids. There's also the safety argument. You might as well call smartcars coffins with wheels.

shaunv74

I think the 39 mpg standard is a good thing just like putting the fat and calories on the menu at restaurants. It's going to raise the bar for auto makers to come up with new solutions for making power with better fuel economy. Sure people want giant SUVs but no one wants 15 mpg. If you could have the same SUV with the same power and 39 mpg you'd be ecstatic!

Look how far we've come in the power department in 10 years? Most cars have doubled their output per liter including the rotary. Remember when a 2.8 liter v6 got 128hp (z24cavlier in the '80's), then 170hp (VW 90's). Now they're in the 250hp range. If we can get the power we can get the fuel economy. It's a win for consumers all the way around in my mind. Sure car companies are going to have to invest and innovate but ultimately we'll have better vehicles for it.

I'm all for having a car with a small hybrid motor so I can creep along in traffic on electric power only and turn the car off at a stoplight. How much better would the gas mileage be on our 8's if we could augment the city driving with an electric motor. And how much better would the low end torque be if we could have a 20hp electric motor kick in from 0-5Krpm. We'd be getting 25mpg and 0-60 times sub 6 second!

I say bring it and see what our great car companies can really do!

Shnifty

Sure, Advancement of technology is great but not when it's jammed down our throats. If they can make it happen WITHOUT TAXING ME MORE and without causing Mazda to end production of the RX-8 then cool, do it.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Then make your choice and buy one. Thats the American Way. Being forced upon us isn't.

Shnifty

Basically I don't want the Governments priorities lowering my quality of life. I work hard for my quality of life.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Your analogy doesn't work because mandating fuel economy would be analgous to the government MANDATING fat content in foods served/sold.

Then let the free-market decide what is valuable to them and what isn't. Our Constitutionally-limited Republic is not equipped to enhance the free-market by their own involvment.

If central-planning (i.e. Socialism) worked America would have faded away long ago under the competition of political phiosophies.

shaunv74

Yes I understand that my analogy is government mandate vs. people making informed decision. My point is that in both cases it's going to drive innovation and raise the level of products being offered and the industry doesn't want it.

My stance on free market vs. goverment regulation is: markets are reactive and the government should be pro-active. This past year was proof of how reactive our free market is and what can happen if there are no rules to the game.

I tend to agree that legislation is generally not well thought out or understood by the government. I think they should set the rules and let businesses figure out how to meet them through innovation.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

You cannot make a valid point through a flawed analogy.

Where is the flaw in allowing we who actually provide the products and services to the free-market to have our "fingers on the pulses" of the buying public and address their concerns? I suppose BHR should have sat around and waited for the government to tell us it was okay to develop our coil kit, spacer plate, or anything else. From now on, BHR will wait until Obama tells us what to do next as regards product development. I just placed a call to the White House asking for guidance on midpipe development.

Again, you are mixing your concerns. First, you say that the markets are "reactive". To what? Then you say that governments "should" be proactive. In pursuit of what objective goal?

So the free-market pales incomparison to the innovation and genius of government? That "pro-active" government you are seeking already exists. It is called Statism.

The government has already established all the rules the markets need to guide their actions. Interestingly, but only to those who see the government as the paradigm, those who provide products and services are able to self-regulate through civil law and procedure.

renesisgenesis

Does this mean Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin, etc, will not be able to export cars to the US after 2016?

shaunv74

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that the government tell you what to make or how to make it.

Also I would say you found a need and are doing a great job filling it with the excellent products and services you offer. But I would not call that and example of pro-active in the sense that I am talking about.

I think in the terms we are discussing the objective goal of government should be proactive in creating a marketplace that allows stable and consistent growth where businesses compete on an equal playing field with clear rules.

That requires some safety nets and incentives so that people can take risks and strike out in new directions and not worry that they could go bankrupt next week if they have a catastrophic injury or get pushed out of the industry by the big players due to preferential legislation. It also requires rules so that there is fair competition and companies aren't preying on each other and the people to make a quick buck. this takes out some of the more extreme cyclical nature of the market but in my experience extreme upswings have a portion that is artificial due to either market stupidity or plan old fraud. EG: '80s junk bonds, '90's tech bubble, '02 accounting scandals, '07 sub prime mortgage lending etc.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Show me where your proposed approach has ever worked.

Hidef1080

Can anyone give a clear example of when so-called “free markets” caused a change for the better.


Nearly every change we've made as people has come from it being mandated by governments for various reasons [mostly about them staying in power], war, disease, disaster or people rioting in the streets or protesting.
The free market just finds ways to cash in on it.


No I'm a Communist or a Socialist but I refuse to buy into the political BS that keeps moving from party to the other every 4 to 8 years and I'll never “buy” the idea unregulated free markets as way to make everything better.

heyguy22

how about passing the law that ford has to stop using oil pans that rust... all the way through. or how about chevy come up with something other than a cavalier for an entry car? and chrysler uhhhh yeah enough said.... the euro car manufactuers seem to have thought ahead.... like a diesel jetta gets about the same as a prius or better but a jetta is still fun to drive and i can respect that.