mlfarrell

I may get flamed for this

but, how bad is it to "engine break" with an AT? I live on a pretty steep hill so sometimes when coming down I don't want to use as much of my brakes, so sometimes I shove it over to manual mode and downshift to 2nd on the way down. I've also done this a few times to slow the car down while on flat surfaces. Bad habit?

disclaimer = I'm not trying to be all hot-shot like I'm driving a manual, I've just gotten quite used to the sports shift so I use it pretty often.

RotaryP7

^ I'm lost?

Wait, I get it..

Georgia8er

You always want to use engine braking, not breaking, when going down a steep grade. If I remember correctly, the AT will not allow you to downshift into a gear that would put it past redline but I don't know. Engine braking saves your brakes, and on steep grades people have been known to lose their brakes due to overheating if they didn't gear down.

mlfarrell

thats correct. if you're a moron you can get it close to redlining when you downshift but it won't let you drop into 1st going 80 mph or anything like that. It also automatically goes down to 1st when you slow down to a stop. its essentially idiot proof

TheBurkeMan

saves gas too cause the engine isn't using fuel as long as the gas peddle isn't being pushed

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

can't see it being a problem . I always do that when i'm driving an auto although people look at me funny and say "what are you doing that for ?" . I'm just so used to a manual now so when i get in an auto i like to drive it like one .

YaXMaNGTO

What? Are you guys serious?

Pick which one's cheaper? Pads and rotors, or a ******* engine and transmission?

I'll give you a hint. It's not the one with the curse word in front of it.

Use your brakes, unless youre going to down Mt Everest. Jeez. "saves your brakes"... that's a good one.

mlfarrell

I tell you man. The rx8 is my second owned car and its forever changed me on how I want to drive. I'll never go back to a car without a sports shifter, and I may even get an MT after this.

I still would like better throttle response in the low end, but it curves my agressive driving too so thats a good thing I suppose. I imagine if I had an MT I'd launch at damn near redline at every light, I just love that feeling of acceleration

edit: to the guy ^^ . how is engine breaking going to wreck my engine and tranny?

lVoiDl

To be honest I have been wondering a few things on this subject. I normally never down shift when coming to a stop. I just toss it into neutral and hit the breaks then 1st, 2nd, ect neutral then stop. I have a MT btw not auto, some say this is bad for the car. I have people tell me I should always down shift when slowing down; it evenly wears the gear teeth down. Idk down shifting just does not seem right.,Nor does it seem like I have enough time to down shift from 4 to 1st when stopping.

Letting off the clutch as I slow down to each gear.

Can any one shed some light on this?

shazy

You are just wasting your time if you are going from 4th to 1st. It's only necessary when you are going around a track or doing some awesome spirited driving, but from day to day use, you are just using up your clutch for no reason. I don't get why some Driving instructors recommend that too.

mlfarrell

I just got an image of someone downing cups of **** while coming to a stop. I may need help

anyway, it seems like you'd only need one lower gear to bring the rpms down enough and then use the brakes from there. downshifting through all the would seem tedious to me

Sigma

Because in many states it's actually illegal to coast in Neutral. Of course you're not likely to get a ticket for it, but an instructor is going to teach you the rules, whether it's normal/accepted practice to do otherwise or not. Primarily it's for safety reasons -- you avoid accidents by either accelerating, turning, or braking. By putting your car in Neutral, you are effectively removing acceleration as an option, as it would likely take too long to react to put the car into the correct gear and actually move expeditiously. Sometimes, without sufficient forward motion, even turning/swerving to avoid an accident isn't possible -- leaving only braking as an option, which likely isn't going to help you otherwise you'd likely had reflexively done that first.
And leaving the car in the higher gear while you slow, while technically still in gear, could force a stall (not so much in modern cars) if something happens that causes you to stomp on the gas at 5mph when you're still in 5th gear. At the very least you wouldn't get the response you were hoping for when you hit the gas pedal.

Now, as for doing it in the Automatic.... I doubt it's helping the life of the transmission in the slightest, that's for sure. Downshift with an automatic generates a ton of heat, as it's forced to spin up far more rapidly than most are designed to regularly handle -- not a big deal if you're just forcing it to downshift to, say, 3500RPM, but likely adversely affecting its lifespan if every single deceleration you're forcing it north of 5k on the downshift.

shazy

Ugh, you misunderstood, Of course I know on highway's you arent supposed to coast in neutral. I meant when either slowing down for the stop sign or a light. You don't need to go through all the gears to get to first or even a single gear.

That was my point about going through the gears...it's useless unless there is a reason (highway driving or on boulevards)

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

I have been down shifting since I bought my first AT RX8 in 2005. I see no engine damage due to this procedure.
I have almost 75,000 miles on my original rear pads. And I have only changed the front once. The replacement engine still has the same compression it had when new. 35,000 miles later.
3rd to 2nd downshift,, nothing above 70 mph.
2nd to 1st downshift nothing above 30 mph.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

There is a misconception that downshifting and using engine braking is bad for the tranny/engine.

I completely agree with you if you are not doing it properly. But properly done, there is no damage, no risk, and only faint wear.

And I also object to the arguement that wearing brakes is better than the transmission. Isn't a full brake change like half the cost of a transmission replacement for us? (Stealership prices of course, but using it as a base) Granted, a single change transmission is more, but not if you replace your brakes 3, 4, 5, 6 times between new transmissions. Not saying it is better to wear the transmission, just the arguement you use is faulty.

Transam kid 01

iTrader: (1)

You really shouldn't need to change brakes that often...unless you abuse the crap out of them, at which point it won't matter what you use to slow you on a hill cuz those brakes will go quickly. You also don't completely change brakes, but rather just pads or discs...and if they Arent bad you can cut them.

...in the end you are putting More stress on the tranny than you need to and it will cause wear overtime....but doing it a few times won't destroy your tranny.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

I have no fear of breaking my engine via engine braking.

The Drunk IT Guy

Meh, about a quarter of the time I downshift to 4th and 3rd when slowing down. I only go into second for spirited driving but never to first unless I've slowed to about 4 and the light turns green.

Car runs fine, still gets forty rods to the hogshead.

PSTNLSS

iTrader: (3)

Driving with 3 pedals. I will not go back to just two pedals.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

+1

unless your brakes are overheating and you are getting brake fade going down a mountain i see no need for this...

always.anthony

it's fine, just don't down shift to where its like 6k rpms.

do both, downshift and brake, i'd say down shift at like 3k

shazy

Overrev the **** out of it, that way you will get rid of all the Carbon Buildup.

Georgia8er

Obviously you don't live anywhere there are steep grades.

Fencig

I always find humor in threads on this topic. It's often what the person was taught to do that they preach as being the only "right" way to drive. I’m not a fan of the put it in neutral and let out the clutch while I’m still moving. It just feels like I’ve given up too much control of the car (unless I’m at ~8mph coming to a stop). However it seems to be the most common method on this board.

I personally was taught to use the engine to slow down and brakes were for stopping or emergencies only. This was from parents that use to take a manual transmission VW van up and down mountains all the time. One of the tests my dad gave me was stopping our van while facing up a decent grade and trading spots with me. My job was to release the e-brake, hold the van there for a second or two and then slowly begin driving up the hill without rolling back or breaking the tires loose. To do this you really have to know where the friction point of a clutch is, how to manage throttle and balance the two.

I can already hear a few of you screaming “clutch abuse” but note this is the same technique that motorcycle pro’s teach for controlling a bike at slow speeds. I still do this at stop lights on all but San Francisco type hills. My daily driver is a ’91 Escort GT with just under 200K miles on it. I bought this car new and I’m the only one that drives it. I’ve never had transmission or drive train issues, on the 3rd set of pads (OEMs lasted 80K) and still getting 33MPG. I’m pretty sure this car wasn’t meant to even make 200K by design so the parts are probably not heavy duty.

If done right a skilled driver will not wear a clutch more by engine braking than a brakes only driver. The catch is you have to really know your car to do it right, otherwise yes you can do damage.

Tim Tim Tim

you cant downshift to far in the auto. dont worry about that, it really doesnt let you get that close to redline at all (now if your in gear and accelerating, you can bounce it off the redline if you would like, although I wouldnt recomend it) but when downshifting, nothing to worry about