End of Life... The reflections of an RX-8 Owner.
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Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Cacti Land, AZ
Are you or where you in the military?
mines an 04 with a few mods. i dont drive it in the winter but i keep up on maintence. change the oil 2500-3000 miles, keep plugs coils and wires in good shape ect. i bought it with 47k on the clock and it had a reman at about 27k. i havent had any real problems thank god and i cant wait for the weather to break
I was one who said it
.....but i said in the context of so many arguments being made that oil weight (meaning, the use of 5W-20) is what kills these engines.
From what I gather, the bulk of the evidence seems to indicate that low compression and coolant leaks are the primary reasons for short engine life.
But you are correct about the bearing issue. I've have reviewed the information about abnormal bearing wear in the renesis (and consulted with a couple of engine builders on this matter recently to confirm), and it seems like there's a correlation between that issue and the use of 5w-20.
The question remains: at what point would the "abnormal bearing wear" cause the engine to fail - provided that it had good compression all along? 10K? 50K 100K? I've been told that engine failures due to bearing wear/failure are mostly seen in highly boosted/high performance race engines.
In other words, have these engines been failing (and replaced under warranty) because of abnormal bearing wear?
I'm really trying to understand this issue better.
.....but i said in the context of so many arguments being made that oil weight (meaning, the use of 5W-20) is what kills these engines. From what I gather, the bulk of the evidence seems to indicate that low compression and coolant leaks are the primary reasons for short engine life.
But you are correct about the bearing issue. I've have reviewed the information about abnormal bearing wear in the renesis (and consulted with a couple of engine builders on this matter recently to confirm), and it seems like there's a correlation between that issue and the use of 5w-20.
The question remains: at what point would the "abnormal bearing wear" cause the engine to fail - provided that it had good compression all along? 10K? 50K 100K? I've been told that engine failures due to bearing wear/failure are mostly seen in highly boosted/high performance race engines.
In other words, have these engines been failing (and replaced under warranty) because of abnormal bearing wear?
I'm really trying to understand this issue better.
While I agreed that most failure came from failed coolant seal or broken Apex, that's why aftermarket Viton seals exist (vs stock teflon/rubber/teflon type of seal) but bearing good/bad does affect engine life. Usually Rotor Bearing/Stationary Gear Bearing is reusable in the engines, even if it has over 100K on it. the key is you have to use the right oil.
The last guy who build my FC's engine got it all wrong, wrong type of springs, wrong clearance, and wrong way to install some things. explains why the engine leaks like a **** with just 30K on it (if what the last owner said was true) so clearance does play a big role in modern engines.
Last edited by nycgps; Feb 27, 2012 at 08:30 AM.
He probably has a shitty car with a bend frame from factory that kills anything he put in there but USAA took cared of them
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Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Cacti Land, AZ
Engine bearing, just like anything else in the engine, decides how the engine "rolls" inside the engine. we're talking about differences in thousands of an inch. might not seem like a lot, but from 0.015" to 0.020" could means a fail in some case.
While I agreed that most failure came from failed coolant seal or broken Apex, that's why aftermarket Viton seals exist (vs stock teflon/rubber/teflon type of seal) but bearing good/bad does affect engine life. Usually Rotor Bearing/Stationary Gear Bearing is reusable in the engines, even if it has over 100K on it. the key is you have to use the right oil.
The last guy who build my FC's engine got it all wrong, wrong type of springs, wrong clearance, and wrong way to install some things. explains why the engine leaks like a **** with just 30K on it (if what the last owner said was true) so clearance does play a big role in modern engines.
While I agreed that most failure came from failed coolant seal or broken Apex, that's why aftermarket Viton seals exist (vs stock teflon/rubber/teflon type of seal) but bearing good/bad does affect engine life. Usually Rotor Bearing/Stationary Gear Bearing is reusable in the engines, even if it has over 100K on it. the key is you have to use the right oil.
The last guy who build my FC's engine got it all wrong, wrong type of springs, wrong clearance, and wrong way to install some things. explains why the engine leaks like a **** with just 30K on it (if what the last owner said was true) so clearance does play a big role in modern engines.
This whole issue puts us owners in a bind. I still have warranty left on my car, and would consider using a different oil weight, yet I assume Mazda would give me hell in case of a warranty claim. I'm somewhat familiar with the Magnuson-Moss law, but I imagine how messy and frustrating it would be trying to enforce that law in case of a denied warranty claim (having a lawyer involved, down time with the car, etc. )
BTW, who was that builder that worked on your FC's engine! I would like to know so that I can avoid him, haha
Last edited by pistonhater; Feb 27, 2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,061
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From: Cacti Land, AZ
Engine bearing, just like anything else in the engine, decides how the engine "rolls" inside the engine. we're talking about differences in thousands of an inch. might not seem like a lot, but from 0.015" to 0.020" could means a fail in some case.
While I agreed that most failure came from failed coolant seal or broken Apex, that's why aftermarket Viton seals exist (vs stock teflon/rubber/teflon type of seal) but bearing good/bad does affect engine life. Usually Rotor Bearing/Stationary Gear Bearing is reusable in the engines, even if it has over 100K on it. the key is you have to use the right oil.
The last guy who build my FC's engine got it all wrong, wrong type of springs, wrong clearance, and wrong way to install some things. explains why the engine leaks like a **** with just 30K on it (if what the last owner said was true) so clearance does play a big role in modern engines.
While I agreed that most failure came from failed coolant seal or broken Apex, that's why aftermarket Viton seals exist (vs stock teflon/rubber/teflon type of seal) but bearing good/bad does affect engine life. Usually Rotor Bearing/Stationary Gear Bearing is reusable in the engines, even if it has over 100K on it. the key is you have to use the right oil.
The last guy who build my FC's engine got it all wrong, wrong type of springs, wrong clearance, and wrong way to install some things. explains why the engine leaks like a **** with just 30K on it (if what the last owner said was true) so clearance does play a big role in modern engines.
This whole issue puts us owners in a bind. I still have warranty left on my car, and would consider using a different oil weight, yet I assume Mazda would give me hell in case of a warranty claim. I'm somewhat familiar with the Magnuson-Moss law, but I can imagine how messy and frustrating it would by trying to enforce that law in case of a denied warranty claim (having a lawyer involved, down time with the car, etc. )
BTW, who was that builder that worked on your FC's engine! I would like to know so that I can avoid him, haha
Thanks a lot for explaining that. It really helps me understand this issue better. So it seems like rebuilding a renesis might also require replacing bearings and stationary gears - provided 5w-20 was used in it. Whereas other engines with different oil weight might be able to reuse those parts as you described.
but more important is the quality of the oil, the weight on the bottle means little if it's some garbage oil. There are reports that some oil saids 5w30 have absolutely no protection at all.
This whole issue puts us owners in a bind. I still have warranty left on my car, and would consider using a different oil weight, yet I assume Mazda would give me hell in case of a warranty claim. I'm somewhat familiar with the Magnuson-Moss law, but I imagine how messy and frustrating it would be trying to enforce that law in case of a denied warranty claim (having a lawyer involved, down time with the car, etc. )
BTW, who was that builder that worked on your FC's engine! I would like to know so that I can avoid him, haha
This whole issue puts us owners in a bind. I still have warranty left on my car, and would consider using a different oil weight, yet I assume Mazda would give me hell in case of a warranty claim. I'm somewhat familiar with the Magnuson-Moss law, but I can imagine how messy and frustrating it would by trying to enforce that law in case of a denied warranty claim (having a lawyer involved, down time with the car, etc. )
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Exactly right... the dealer here seems to use 5w30. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having a warranty problem that had regular changes with 5w30, but obviously there could be some dealer somewhere that might complain.
It depends on the service writer and the tech.
I like your write up and I think it was well thought out! I appreciate how loyal you are to the 8 even though your DD Evora is amazing. This part was pretty funny:
I thought you'd have a different ending and that you'd just dump it. I've had my 8 for almost 8 years now and in a similar position but am forced to be more practical but hard to find a worthy replacement. IMO, I hope you keep it and make it a nice little project.
I thought you'd have a different ending and that you'd just dump it. I've had my 8 for almost 8 years now and in a similar position but am forced to be more practical but hard to find a worthy replacement. IMO, I hope you keep it and make it a nice little project.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,061
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From: Cacti Land, AZ
But I do all maintenance in my other vehicle. Hate to go to the dealer for something as simple as an oil change.
Oh well...
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