PhlypSide

Big +1 to everyone that said be careful and respect the wet.

Another +1 to be even more careful if you're responsible for more lives than your own (e.g. have passengers aboard).

I don't think what Tom did was unintentional, he just wasn't fully aware of his environment and thought the risks were lower than they actually were.

R.I.P.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

absolutely i realize it... and I stay under control when driving in public ("driving hard" or having some fun does not mean you have to be at 9/10th + of complete disaster)

reaper1

Choi and the passenger in the rear seat died of smoke inhalation, said a spokesman for the medical examiner's office. The passenger in the front seat died of multiple injuries. It was unclear which woman was in the front.

There was only one passenger in the back seat. The guy and one of the girls were in front.

Detrich

In 2004, 5,610 teenagers died in the United States from motor vehicle crash injuries, making driving the leading public health problem among people 13 to 19 years old. The risk is particularly high during the first years in which teenagers are eligible for driver's licenses. In 2002, the latest year for which data are available, 41 percent of all deaths among 16-19 year-olds from all causes were related to motor vehicles.

• 16 year-olds have higher crash rates than drivers of any other age.
• It is estimated that 16-year-olds are 3 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle crash than the average of all drivers.
• 3,657 drivers age 15-20 died in car crashes in 2003, making up 14% of all driver involved in fatal crashes, and 18% of all drivers involved in police-reported crashes (NHTSA).
• Crash risk is particularly high during the first years that teenagers are eligible to drive. The top five driver-related factors for teenage drivers involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes include:
• Driving too fast
• Running off the road
• Driving in the wrong lane
• Driving under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or medication
• Erratic or reckless driving
• In 2001, two thirds of teens killed in auto accidents were not wearing seat belts. Belt use among fatally injured passengers ages 16-19 was considerably lower than among teenage drivers. Compared with other age groups, teens have the lowest rate of seat belt use.
• Almost half of the crash deaths involving 16-year-old drivers in 2003 occurred when the beginning drivers were driving with teen passengers (IIHS). Statistics show that 16 and 17-year-old driver death rates increase with each additional passenger (IIHS).
• Young drivers are less likely than adults to drive after drinking alcohol, but their crash risk is substantially higher when they do. This is especially true at low and moderate blood alcohol concentrations. The estimated percentage of fatally injured passenger vehicle drivers ages 16-17 who had BACs at or above 0.08 percent in 2004 was 15%, down 63% since 1982. Most of this decline took place in the 1980s. This age group experienced the greatest decline in alcohol involvement, compared with a 47% decline for drivers ages 18-20, a 23% decline for drivers ages 21-30, and a 35% for drivers older than 30.
• Graduated drivers license programs appear to be making a difference. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety reports that the overall number of 16-year-old drivers fell from 1,084 in 1993 to 938 in 2003 despite an 18% increase in the 16-year-old population.
• About 2 out of every 3 teenagers killed in motor vehicle crashes in 2004 were males. Since 1975 teenage motor vehicle crash deaths have decreased more among males (44 percent) than among females (13 percent).
• Eighty-six percent of teenage motor vehicle crash deaths in 2004 were passenger vehicle occupants. The others were pedestrians (5 percent), motorcyclists (4 percent), bicyclists (2 percent), riders of all-terrain vehicles (2 percent), and people in other kinds of vehicles (2 percent).
• The rate of nighttime fatal passenger vehicle crashes per 100 million miles traveled in 2001-02 was almost 6 times higher for male drivers ages 16-19 than for male drivers ages 30-59. The corresponding comparison for females yields 3 times the rate.
• From 1994 through 2003, almost 64,000 youth aged 15 through 20 died in traffic crashes–122 each week.
• Young drivers do only 20 percent of their driving at night, but over half the crash fatalities of adolescent drivers occur during nighttime hours.
• The risk of a crash involving a teenage driver increases with each additional teen passenger in the vehicle.
• Fifty-four percent of motor vehicle crash deaths among teenagers in 2004 occurred on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.

Sources:
Insurance Information Institute - http://www.iii.org/?National Transportation Safety Board - http://www.ntsb.gov?Allstate Foundation report on teen driving - http://www.allstate.com/Community/Pa...vingfacts.html

sighdamnrx8

hey

Well first off thank you guys for being supportive. I know i dont have a rotary or an rx8 to be specific but i love cars so i like all sorts. Man even after a whole night it still seems unreal. It just feels like a normal day my sisters at college and im at college and so we dont see each other regularly. I wish i got to know her better, but now shes in gods hands. RIP and well all miss you and love you dearly.

Well yeah so im the older brother of the purdue student (karen chiang). Well to clear somethings up my sister was in the back and cindy kim was in the front and choi was driving. What pisses me off the most actually its aquite a long list but here goes

First, if the roads were "wet" said chao (who i think is twisting the story) why the hel lwas choi going so fast? I mean come on rx8s do handle well we all know that, ive driven them too. So slow your *** down if it was wet. Now i went to lower wacker with my mom to leave flowers before anyone else did and we looked around. IT was at a straight away. 3 lanes. wtf? right i mean it was dry last night and it was about mid upper 50s when we went by the entire wacker was dry not 1 wet spot. Ive done plenty of cruises through wacker and never saw anything that would be enough to make someone slip just normal driving.

Second, There were a total of 4 people following the rx8 in 2 seperate cars. Now if the douche bag launches with or without DSC and slips and ***** **** up how come the people behind didnt do anything? we all know wacker is an inclosed area. its not like you might miss it i mean i heard fires hit the roof? thats 15 feed of flames wtf. Break a window, get your jack a rock jump on **** just do seomthing.

Third, The chao keeps on insisting he isnt a dumb driver and this and that. Fine it doesnt matter. you can be the best driver for 20 yrs but it only takes 1 second to ruin 3 families. Look at tsuchiya. Hes amazing but even he crashes so i dont care how good of a driver he was, he had people in his car and they are his responsibility.

Fourth, The tire marks on the road indicated he probably launched from the light and maybe hit a trail of water or saw cars or maybe he was just speeding down wacker and coudln't brake in time, whatever the case he was moving fast, I saw the car in person and its nothing like what you see in the paper. They only show you the front part so it the car doesn't look that bad and can continue lying to us with how fast he was going. There has been mutliple witnesses and his own friends said he sped off at the light. Looking at the car theres no way the story makes sense. IF anyone knows wacker the michigan avenue intersects wacker at 100East and thats where i think they started if they even started from the light. Now the pole they hit as you can see inthe pictures is only 4 or 5 poles from the light. theres no way they destroyed that car from a slwoer speed than 40mph. I crashed my first car into a lightpole at 25is mph if not a lil less maybe even less. IT was an import also a acura integra so its construction is gonna be similar to the rx8 interms of weak suports and crumple zones for lgihtweight and what not. But i mean my airbags didnt come out and it didnt push in my bumper more than a inch and feder was bent a little bit. He pushed the entire passenger seat into the driver seat making a V from the side of the car almost looks like a t bone with a much sharper object.

I know it doesn't matter waht i say now since it already happened and nothing will bring my sister back. But mainly if peopel can learn from this and save a life or 2 it would be worth it. Dude guys help your fellow humans. If you see someone in need jump in or find our or just try. Man the more info that comes out the sadder it gets. My mom hoped my sister just went out after the crash, but it seems like she didnt. IF she died from smoke inhilation she didnt go suddenly *tear* Hope my mom can handle it. Well thanks again guys maybe well hear more about this.
-david

RIP Karen 3/14/07

sighdamnrx8

ok ty, i jsut realized you posted on page 6 i heard there was some stuff on here and i just wanted the people to know more otherwise i woudln't even come here.

ty - dont know if you ever lost a sibling but its not easy, you get frustrated. IF you wanna go out and just start stuff ingeneral? then cool call me lets talk, you seem to be so inconsiderate i really feel bad for you, four family and whoever else affiliate themselves with you. Even at a time of mourning and sorrow you are still able to bring dirt up and start stuff. Dude are you kidding? Ty please say more open your mouth even more. I dont feel that sitting behind a computer and letting little electronic signals "talk smack" nor do i feel like dealing with your crap anytimem, but expecially not a time like this. Seriously go fly a kite and keep yourself occupied.

To rx8 community. I hope you understand that was out of frustration. Dont know if u guys ever lost a close family member but i mean thats how it is. I hate all dumb drivers in general it just so happened he was in an rx8.

saturn

This one doesn't make any sense. How are there only 1,000 16 year-old drivers on the road?

Chrisbert

David,
I don't know you, but I pray for you and your family to come through this. Nobody should ever have to face a tragedy like this.

- Chris

Elara

We completely understand- suddenly losing an immediate family member is a horrible, horrible thing to go through (yes, it's happened to me), and the great majority of this forum have nothing but sympathy for you and your family. It was a terrible, awful accident. Please accept our condolences.

BlueByU

Our thoughts and prayers go out to all the family members and friends...

balefire

iTrader: (2)

sighdamnrx8: fyi, if the car is in the kid's parents name (what 19-20 y.o. can afford an rx8??), then they are liable for the accident. they will say anything to protect themselves, e.g. he was a good driver, etc.

my parents warned me long ago when i too was a teenager that an accident with my friends would endanger all their personal property. yet another reason to act responsibly as a teenager / minor when others lives are in your hands.

condolences.

reddevilwarrior

My Korean fellows,

RIP

RedSheDevil

i understand how it feels. and i know you must just be heartbroken. i am so sorry your family and friends are having to go through this.

my sincerest condolences to you and your family.

Aero8

off topic, but just so you know.
I bought mine when I was 20. now I am 21. it's fully in my name, I am the one making the car/insurance payments.

sighdamnrx8, I am sorry for your loss and I undertsand where the anger would come from.

Mspeedpro

iTrader: (1)

visited chicago last weekend, drove on lower wacker. kinda random.

the roads appeared extremely weather-worn to me. as things start warming up the roads are pretty bad from the winter, who knows.

PhlypSide

This is just classic behavior from you David, you are backpedaling. You said you blamed all RX-8 drivers, not me. You called all RX-8 owners "****", not me.

I understand your being upset, but logic can prevail, especially if you're talking about written communications. Surely being an admin over there you can edit your own posts and topics?

I feel sorry for your family and the Choi and Kim families and have never said anything disrespectful about this tragedy, hell I don't even make jokes about topics like these, but you sure don't seem to practice what you preach.

(BTW, not that you all care, but David is an admin on another board, where just earlier this month they made a thread - to which David contributed and allowed to remain open - making light of getting into a fiery car wreck and dying.)

[EDIT]Here's the threadlink:
http://noff.editboard.com/General-Ch...appen-t145.htm
[/EDIT]

You likely won't be able to see that thread now since they are now forcing everyone to login to their forum.

sighdamnrx8

ty stop trying to bring a different topic into this thread. keep this thread on track keep your crap out of here. Dude just go do your own thing. My sister is dead, theres nothing in the world you could do/say/type/complain about to make it any worse. You sir need to either send your condolences or just be quiet. ty, im not going to pick apart what you said but i in no way pointed anything towards you and you start this. you have nothing to offer to this thread so go post your stuff into the correct forum k thanks.

rx8 community- thanks yeah, im sorrry to hear that some of you guys also had to go through what i am currently experiancing. Its not soemthing peopel should have to face. Well be safe drive carefully

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I always keep a window punch in my car to break out the windows if needed. That might have helped here. I keep it in the back seat pouch also.

Railgun

Yeah...Ty, keep it where it is already. No need to spread that around. Deal with that another time and where it started.

CarAndDriver

Not cool.

PhlypSide

Christian:

I've said my peace. God bless Tommy, Cindy, and Karen and their families. They never did me any wrong, nor do I believe I did them any wrong.

David:

It's never funny when someone stands to lose something they really care about, let alone someone. That was my point, I'm sorry for pointing out the irony in your allowing that to happen in your neck of the woods. I'll let you mourn in your own way, I can only hope you'd delete that distasteful thread and sick joke from your board.

Detrich

Elara>

i hope u have a sense of humor for me saying this... but, your avatar is just SO wrong... hahahahahaha

Opethdtr

Very sad and tragic. I can empathize what the famlies are going threw. I've lost friends and close relatives. Regardless of who is at fault(that can be decided at a later time) prayers and condelences are in order.

Japican

I understand that ur mad David, I had jus met ur sister that day and we hung out for the good majority of that day. She was an awesome person even I only knew her for a day. I also pray that ur sister did not suffer in that wreck but I jus want to clarify some things for you.

The roads were indeed very wet and slippery at the time of the accident...I was there hours after it happened.

Secondly my friends told me exactly what happened from the moment tommy left the stop light to the crash. Litterally seconds after he crashed they ran to the car to try and pull them out. They tried their best to get ur sister out but within seconds of the impact the car bursted into flames 6-7 ft in the air. My friends are going to have to deal with the image of not being able to pull any of them out of the car...they out of all of us are taking it the hardest.

I know u are grieveing David but please understand that my friends did everythin in their power to help ur sister.

I will be attending all 3 funeral services and my prayers and condolences go out to all the families involved.

PaulieWalnuts

Really sad these people died and their families and friends suffered such a loss.

Also really sad something like this always brings out the true ugliness of people. People who don't have a clue of what happened and have never driven on Wacker but are ready to talk crap from behind their keyboard.