early 30's crisis

While I can agree with most posters here on both 'sides' of the issue, it honestly does not matter what and/or who caused the accident, human error, weather or otherwise. There should be no opinion. Loss is what matters.
People have died, at a tender age that never got a chance to mature and grow. Count yourselves lucky it wasnt you, and the last time you revved it up, or took that corner too hard, or whoops... fishtailed! You made it. They didnt.
Regardless of how one may feel of what 'mistakes' were made, or what may have happened..
Three souls need to rest, and their friends and families need to grieve. Fire up your engines tomorrow, listen to your engine and give a second of your lives to these poor kids that met their end many decades before their time.

May their RX-8 have a choice parking spot in that great lot in the sky.

JB_Rotary

^ Well said

Man it's amazing how the tone of this thread changed from earlier in the day.

devildog1679

+1 There is a time for criticism but this is not one of them.

LiTTleRX-8

I agree that people should just lay back on the harsh comments a bit...
EVERY ONE of us has sped at one time or another...let's keep it at that...

Lots of people have mentioned DSC this DSC that...and lots of people have mentioned cold temps + stock tires = bad...

But from that report, it says that the car is a 2004...acquired for about a year only. That looks like stock rims/tires, which probably means little tread is left on it. So even with DSC it wouldn't have made much difference on the wet pavement.

Someone mentioned it might be a turbo...but it looks like that's just the AC condenser...

dmc27

Very well said, Early30s.

Done. And for their friends, as well.


r.i.p. t.c., c.k., k.c.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Actually that section was rebuilt a few years ago. I is relativity clean and well lit.

Stavesacre21

Reguardless of what happened, a tragedy is a tragedy. This is so sad that I can hardly comprehend it, being possibly trapped in the back and all. Heartfelt sorrow and condolences go out to the family and loved ones.

Loving a car is one thing, but trying to take sides for a CAR over human beings is another thing. Who cares if it were the 8 or the drivers fault. It's still saddening.

Just to give an idea where i'm coming from, I had a group of friends, not to mention the driver and drivers wife that were on the bus that flew off the overpass in atlanta, killing them, as well as 5 other people on the bluffton baseball team 2 weeks ago. I'm sure you've all seen the publicity. That's another tragedy...there may or may not have been error to blame, but there were still lives lost. 3 of which were friends. Respects should be given.

Instead all you have is media knocking on your door and asking how your feeling and what do you think of the driver and other BS. They can all just F-off. They have no rightful place to exploit anothers feelings of grief and sadness to simply provide entertainment for all to see.

This kinda struck a sensitive nerve with me.

bobaab

Thanks to all those who are wishing the families and friends of the victims the best...to those arguing how they could have avoided it, please refrain from doing that here, but thank you for caring enough to even post here.

Karen is a fellow Boilermaker (Purdue Student) and I know Karen's brother and one of her best friends is a close friend of mine. I just found out Karen was involved in this accident so I haven't talked to my friend yet, but I'm sure she has taken a pretty hard hit. She was also friends with Cindy.

To most people, these are just a few of the millions of college students nationwide and may have no relevance or identity to you, but they do to many people. Please wish the family and friends of the victims the best.


From Purdue University and EvolutionM.net,

-Bob

Winfree

We worry about how it happened because we realize it could happen to us...

But, please let your friends know, that we sorrow with them - for friends lost, for children who pass before their parents, for the things we cannot heal or repair.

Yet, as we enter the Easter season, it is a reminder that death may not be the end, and hope is also a human emotion.

Chrisbert

Time warp?

PhlypSide

If you guys didn't hear about it already, there was a crash involving an RX-8 on Lower Wacker in Chicago at 12:50AM yesterday.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ck=1&cset=true

username: k@mytrashmail.com
password: password

I feel sorry for the family and their loss, but lashing out at RX-8s and RX-8 drivers is just lame.

The local Northbrook guy (David Chiang) lost his sister in that wreck and has decided all RX-8 drivers are dumb and are to be damned as "****". Not very logical for a 20 year old.

SRC: http://noff.editboard.com/General-Ch...ivers-t177.htm

TOPIC TITLE: RIP Karen 3/14/07 -I hate rx8s and their dumb drivers

PS: More irony? David is an avid DSMer and supports street racing by both spectating and claiming to race himself. We've even seen him at 4Corners in Lemont looking for races to spectate at.

PhlypSide

BTW, the three friends that died were:

Tommy Choi (NIU/Palatine HS) - driver
Cindy Kim (NIU/Glenbrook North)
Karen Chiang (Purdue/Glenbrook North) - sister of the kid blaming all RX-8 drivers.

Elara

To everyone: Please be considerate when posting in threads like this. Posting from a semi- anonymous name on a internet forum does not make it okay to slam people who are grieving after something like this.

Chrisbert

He makes it sound like the RX8 became self-aware and floored itself. His post is just plain ignorant, but I'll chalk it up to lashing out in grief. It matters not what whether you are in a Civic or a Ferrari if you drive irresponsibly both can kill you.

Smileynh

As of 3:48 am CDT on March 15, 2007

Today...Mostly cloudy. Much colder. Blustery. Highs in the upper 30s.

The stock tires are useless in the wet below 40. It appears it was below 30. Please, if you live in an area that gets below 40, buy yourself some all season tires. Save your own or someone elses life.

I have a brand new Armada and the stock Conti's are awful in the snow. I got sideways doing 20mph the first weekend I had the beast. The tire shop was asking me why I was replacing tires on a truck with a temp plate. I told him it's worth the money to keep my wife and kids alive.

NH

saturn

I don't know if this applies in this case, but I think the majority of people think SUV = 4 wheel drive = safe to drive fast in snow and rain. They also think sporty looking car = all about speed = unsafe to drive in any inclement weather. In the end it's mostly about the tires. Anyone who lives outside of the desert runs with summer tires all year round is absolutely crazy or just plain uninformed.

foxman

The stock potenza tires are pretty easy to break loose when it is wet, let alone ice or snow. It does not appear the temps were low enough to produce icy conditions in this situation. With an '04, the tires may very well have been worn. I wore mine down in just a little over 20,000 miles and they were no longer safe on wet pavement.

In all likelihood the primary factor was poor judgement and driver error and not fully being aware of the limits of the car when combined with substandard equipment such as the worn OEM tires in a wet condition.

Aero8

you guys are missing something though, it got really nice around chicago the past few days, it is possible this is a second car of his, or he was home from school and doesn't take it to school, which means he would have no need for snow tires. since it was nice he could have decided to take it out early in the day and not get home till late. he may not have been expecting it to drop so low again.

last saturday I went out around 7 to go to breakfast, it was nice out the night before, snow was melting. in the morning it was just cold enough to make everything black ice. I couldn't tell at all. I slid just walking on my driveway. when I backed out of my driveway I turned like normal not fast at all and my back end slid. the court didn't even look wet or icy, it was just a thin layer but I still slid and I am on blizzaks.

Railgun

This person, to the best of my knowledge wasn't involved in the rotary community...perhaps RSD can confirm that, but I don't think he was on the RC3 site.

Yes, it's sad that this had happened. Yes, I feel for their families, but here's the thing...

Yesterday from 12 to 1AM, the Chicago temp was 62. That's 62. So take weather out of it. Take rain out of it cause it's covered, however, it was wet. I haven't been down there lately, but I believe there are no potholes at all. The road, for an "underground" road is in really great shape. What was the likely cause of the wreck? Driver error. Plain and simple. No, it's not cold. No, it's not heartless. I've been down there plenty of times both when it's busy and in the middle of the night such as when this happened. I believe it says they were going westbound. There are no issues at all in travelling that direction.

No...I know they weren't racing as according to multiple WITNESS reports, it was just them. But when are people going to realize that there are certain times to do things and certain times not to. Yes, I drive in a very spirited fashion, but I'll be the first to tell you that as soon as the seat next to me is occupied, EVEN if it's my brother, who has the same driving style as I do and who I know doesn't care, I tone it down...A LOT.

Here's the other thing, after 16 years of driving (which I know to some isn't a lot) including some track time, I'm quite confident of what my cars can and can't do. I know that if conditions are unfavorable (read: wet) I don't screw around at all. I've seen a few things in my day of kids killing themselves because of stupid things they do, whether it was intentional or not.

The point is to blindly ignore the fact that something was probably done that shouldn't have been done is not only ignorant, but just plain stupid. That's not going to get the right message across and will take the responsibility away from those that need to accept it. Plain and simple.

All I can say is drive safe. Know your driving conditions and do NOT screw around with the lives of those you are responsible for.

Happy rotoring...

Christian

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I feel for the families...

However, the bottomline is these kids died from their own actions. I'm tired of reading it could have been icey, the stock tires suck, rwd needs to be respected, the road is dangerous, suicide doors, or any other excuse in the excuse book. The cause was driving above the speedlimit and in a reckless manner. If the driver chose not to do that they would all be alive - end of story.

I'm also tired of the saying "we do it to and just pray this doesn't happen to us". Guess what - if you choose to drive in a manner like this, you better choose to accept consequences of something like this. So yes... I drive hard some times, no I do not do it with passengers (unless they are encouraging it), no I don't do it in bad weather or high traffic errors, and if i do get injured or die I don't expect any sympathy because I did it to myself.

accept responsibility for your actions

Shouden

My big question is why wasnt one of the girls in the back in the front seat? Why were they both in the back in the first place?

saturn

You do realize that if there's anyone out there on the road at all then driving fast is putting them in danger too. Bad weather and heavy traffic certainly exacerbate that danger, but it's not non-existent just because you think you've got it under control.

When it's dry I tend to drive slightly faster than most people. When it's wet I tend to drive slower than most people. Wet conditions make all the difference in the world and I'm always amazed by the manner in which people drive when the road is slick.

ken-x8

Just a moment of doing something dumb. Part of being young. Sometimes I wonder how any of us survived into adulthood. The tragedy far outweighs any assignment of blame or amateur remote accident investigation.

But you're right that we should not ignore what happened. There are still lots of youngsters out there, and we need to pay attention to anything that can help them think about what they're doing. In the past few years there has been a rash of teenage deaths in my area (Northern Virginia). The media have attributed some of it to street racing, but being familiar with some of the roads (and remembering my own youth) I think it's mostly moments of horsing around.

Yesterday a teenage girl was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for a wreck where she was driving over 100 mph. Her unsuccessful defense was peer pressure - the kid next to her was egging her on.

For generations, parents have been telling their kids "Sure everyone is having fun, but wait til someone's eye gets poked out." And the kids have been saying "Yeah, sure." How do we get this kind of message across?

Ken

saturn

This is because the stiff penalties/consequences only come when someone actually "gets their eye poked out". People get DUI's, speeding tickets for 100+, etc and they get a slap on the wrist. Then when something really bad happens people wonder why. You go over 100 or have a DUI and get caught you should lose your license for a year. It's not the end of your life if this happens to you and it will serve as a deterrent for everyone.

RedSheDevil

i dont believe he was part of EVOLV-Chicago. his friend posted and said he didnt have internet access, but that doesnt mean he didnt show up to a meet. generally i try to talk to everyone who shows up, but its possible at one of the larger meets i may not have seen him.

tonights meet will have a mention of this, as we have all hit up lower wacker at some point.