Sunset ZR

Some of you are a little or maybe a lot misunformed. The handling of the z is better now than when it was released in 03 and was no slouch then. As far as fun goes well i have a Z, my uncle has an S2000, and another has an RX8. i have driven them all for more than 15 minute comparison drive. If you are an enthusiast, and i assumed over time have honed your skills to drive a car, the Z is by far the funnest of the cars in that test anyway. The 8 handles great and is easy to drive, but drive a Z for more than a day and learn how to drive it and its hard to pick a car in that price range that will do what it can do at that price. Yeah EVO and STI but if you are talking about a Z is hard to drive well then leave the corner exit of a turbo car because it is to much for you to balance. I am exaggerating of course but the cars really are built to different personas. I can respect the win for the RX-8 because in what they were looking for the 8 won. A win is a win is a win, but Phantom Menace if your wife can out run you on a road in the 8, Kudos my friend because you have a lady that can drive the wheels off a car. More important give her some time in your Z and beside her drive to be a mommy, you will not get your car back. The 8 wins test because it appeals to a broader market than other cars because of the back seat. Now I already told you a win is a win, but if we are talking about sports cars or even better regardless of labels, take the back seat out of test. The 8 would fair much less favorably and the Z most likely win.

I think I read in this thread before that people when choosing a car have criteria they want or have to place on their purchase. I am marrying a woman that has a early middle school child, so I am buying the sportiest car I can find that feels the criteria of letting all three of us take a sporting drive through the mountains. (By the way I have read that weight impedes the 8s performance badly, how much is that going to diminish my husle through the mountains) On the other hand I am lucky enough to have enough of a job to be able to own a car for pure enjoyment to drive hard on weekend and whenever I get free time, roads, and weather to do so, i will choose the Z every time. Now all these are personal opinions and since most of us have spent money on a 30ish thousand dollar car, yes enjoy what you drive, but blind appreciation is nerve racking.

Its like saying its better to be single so you can sleep with any woman you choose and can get.

or

its better to be married because you can raise a family and can get someone that you can depend as long as you can afford the responsibility.

In other words its all about choices and a lifestyle. Choose whatever one you think will give you the most happiness.

Ike

The one thing that stands out about this article more than anything is how fast the TT was able to get around the track. I'm impressed and it looks like the TT is no longer just a pretty face.

dtorre

^ werd ((to sunset))

map

One thing they always leave out of these tests is real world cost. Nobody pays anywhere close to sticker for an 8 these days. It is by far the cheapest to go out and buy of that group. I got one that performs exactly like their $34k tester for $22k brand new. That to me is the real win for the 8, in addition to the excellent chassis and feel.

Phantom Menace

LOL! We never actually drove side-by-side and I would never, really, race her. Besides, I was being sarcastic with the whole "twisties" schpeal. It has got to the THE Saving Grace of this forum. Similar to other forums who may argue, "yeah, but our car is the sex..." What ever the fu@k, that may mean......I've just read that too many times than I car to remember.

Oh, btw...she's never drving the 350! ****, man...that's how I lost the 8 to her in the first place! When she was pregnant with my 5 year old, we went to Tahoe and rented some snow mobiles....she was hitting about 75mph on them damn things screaming, "whooo-hoo!" the whole time! She's got a crazy, but hidden, addiciton for motorsports and speed that I should not be feeding with 306bhp.

LionZoo

I agree that different cars satisfy the criteria of different people. It's kind of pointless to bash the choices of others since they aren't you, and you really should be happy about that since it makes you more unique.
However, I'm not sure how you concluded the backseats gave the RX-8 the win. Take the points the RX-8 gained through the backseat out and it still scores much higher than the Z, though admittedly less than the TT. Unfortunately, you then contradict your own point when you claim the Z is by far the most fun in the test. It might be more fun for you, but to my tastes I like the RX-8 a lot more, that's why I bought it because it's more fun and a much more willing dance partner on a mountain road; the backseats were actually a negative as I wanted a 2 seater. In the end the personality is different, the Z you have to trust the car more while the RX-8 will tell you exactly where the limit is.

By the way Ike, the TT results surprised me too. It's a good car, even if it was FWD. Also, apparently the DSG 2.0T is as fast as a Quattro V6 in a straight line, which is also surprising. Now if only they can do something about that FWD thing...

Phantom Menace

All-in-all, it's good to read these articles for entertainment. That is, "oh, look what they made 'x' car do!" But to base a purchasing decision or, worse, to base a "my car is better than your car" argument--which is ALWAYS the consequence of any comparos--on these articles or "thank goodness my car has been recognized, legitimated, and justified" is dumb and is unoriginal. Do we really need a bunch of moto-journalists to tell us we made the "right" choice by buying the cars we have? I sure as **** don't.

The questions we should be asking is, "why is it that these things ALWAYS turn into dick envy?"

TALAN7

We agree on something

First, I never said the 8 needed 100 hp. I said with 30 more hp/torque down low it would be perfect. There's no maybe to it. The 8 handles so well because the engine is small and sit's far back in the chassis not because it's putting out the power it is. It could handle a little more power. Your statement regarding a bigger pair is just stupid. A bigger pair would add more weight and further slow me down.

None of those other cars has as excellent a chassis as the 8s.

In the real world is where the 8 could use the power the most. Midrange passing power particularly up a hill. If you don't believe this then stop smoking your 6 lbs of crack.

Phantom Menace

It's called downshifting, bro. 30HP, 100HP...really...where would it stop before you alter the 'soul' of the car? Mazda has a 'theme' that they like to stick to now a days...the whole 'zoom-zoom' bit? Remember, it's 'zoom-zoom' not 'boom-boom.' I faintly recall a certain FD that was an attempt to make major HP...it was pretty, had the "right" numbers, and cost an arm and a leg. Besides, what it souds like you are asking for is either an FD or for Mazda to drop a V6 in the RX8...you sure you bought the "right" car?

Like I said there are guys putting down over 500WHP and want "more."

Did I hurt your feelings?

TALAN7

Downshift all you want in the 8, if the power aint there it aint there! The 8 is a great car! I've said it before. My brother has a Z and all he does is complain about it. But I agree with every magazines critique of the 8 that says basically, "the 8 is a great car that could use more power." It's not for me to figure out how, that's Mazdas job.

And Mazda does make boom-boom. Just look at the Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6, both of which are quicker than the 8. I'm not looking for a v6, just a little more power and torque out of the Renesis. That's the real problem, Mazdas inability to get good torque out of the renesis and be legal or efficient.

No you didn't hurt MY feelings but I know YOURS were hurt when you saw the 8s 0-100 time, and no amount of chassis perfection and subjective feel is going to change that.

ASH8

Well I will tell you a revaluation, I have been around for every Rotary Mazda have made, and I know of no RX that has not had torque complaints...exept from maybe the turbo's.
Which you won't see again unless there are some radical new concepts/ designs to lower the rotary emissions.

As far as the Z goes....they are BLOODY hard work, drive one for a few hours, particularly in traffic and if you are over 30 (yo) you need to see a chiropractor!

Good to see,If the RX-8 was released for the first time it would still beat the very latest, well ,according to C&D.

Phantom Menace

LOL! Dude...my feelings aren't hurt by how the 8 did in the 0-60mph. I don't really care what it pulled. Since when do I time myself going 0-60mph in the context where hundredths of a second are counted? Never. Also, as in my all encompassing argument, it was done by a professional driver on a track! I seriously doubt I could dublicate those times on a track, much less on the street/freeway. Furthermore, I own a Z and my wife owns the 8!
I've got Zoom-Zoom and Boom-Boom! I've got Boom-Zoom! So who's hurt? Me or you? I'm comfortable with the 8's capabilities because for me, it's just a TOOL! You don't look at a screwdriver and wonder why it can't cut a 2x4 in half, do you? Get the logic? I don't look at the 8 and expect an end all, be all of cars. I see it, clearly, for what it is! A light, quick steering, high revving sports car with back seats and decent trunk space.

I use it for carving corners and my wife uses it as a minivan to pick up the kids and buy groceries. If I want for more torque, I drive MY car...If I want better creature comforts, I drive hers...

I'm over 30 and I could drive my Z all day long...no offense, but maybe you should get more exercise? It's not like your bench pressing the damn car...your driving it, no?

GULAMAN

Ur right, the TT was the one that stood out to me. I still can't believe VAG created a car *lighter* than its immediate predecessor...whodathunkit?? for ~$600 more a TT owner can easily add 50-60hp via APR or GIAC boost mapping. thrust galore, albeit with FWD wheelspin.
now I'm wondering if a properly setup TT can challenge the RX8's position in SCCA B-stock competition.

Rhythmic

the renesis is "different but not in a good way." Ouch.

Groundrush

Ya...that kinda sucked. Interesting that they'd make that statement, and then end the article saying the RX-8 was the fastest of all the cars in "real world" road conditions. I guess maybe the engine does just fine in the grand scheme of things? Almost seems like they contradict themselves there...

Still, a good read. I'm a fan of the Z, though the TT and Mustang don't particularly interest me. Excluding those two, and comparing simply the RX vs. the Z, the article seems to be more of the same that we've been hearing since the cars were released. Thanks for posting the article...I'm gonna go pick up the issue now. 8)

thisllub

A pretty good article.
The US cars must get a different aircon to ours.
The day I test drove the car was 44C (111 F) and the climate control air still had plenty of grunt in it.
Through the worst part of the summer I never felt hot in the car.
The under seat vents are great for the rear passengers too.

RX26b

If your only criteria to judge a more "fun" car is torque, then your Z can take the crown over the other 2 cars. Otherwise, you're on crack. There's no way in hell a 350 comes anywhere close to a S2000 in driving enjoyment, or an 8. One feels like a motorcycle on 4 wheels (talking about the 9K redline model), the other hardly differentiates itself from its siblings, which brings us to...

Uh, the G35, and even its sister car the G35 4 door. Now, what does the 350 do that's so special again?

No. The 8 wins because it's a better sporty car. If you don't include torque there's nothing the Z does better than the Mazda. Not brake. Not handle. Not better steering feel. Not better ride quality. Not better chassis feel. Your car is the one that actually appeals to the broader market. Anyone truly knowledgeable about cars and driving would be able to tell that from 2 minutes of seat time in both cars. It's that obvious.

Your first line was that 8 owners are misinformed. No man. The only misinformed are the 350 owners who think they're real sports car enthusiasts.

coll3735

I found a copy of Motor Trend March 2004 copy where they had a RX-8 vs. S-2000 vs. 350 Z, and the RX8 got dogged in every catagory, yet still won, mainly because of its price; and they said its just a fun and easy car to drive. Hmmm...

coll3735

But I'm still surprised it won, I own a RX-8, but I would've bet on the Z winning, because of its popularity.

Ike

Is the new TT in BS? I assumed it would be in DS...

DailyDriver2k5

See thats where a lot of manufactures miss the mark...make your sports car fun. Period. You can throw 500HP into a car ,make it handle to spec, give the car tree ripping out of the ground torque. But in the end its not fun to drive. I say that to say this..... My buddy with his 505HP Z-06, day one he brought it over and let me drive it, It was a BLAST to drive , mega torque and thrust for strait away speed,handling was twitchy, rode like a brick, but that is expected...the chassis, suspension setup needs to be stiff. It didn't beat me up, nope.... but even my firend said and i agreed that the car isn't fun to drive .

Its more scary than fun, almost roller coaster scary, its a thrill ride and you have to be fully ontop of your driving game or else you will be eating curb ,pole, crashing into somebody , or going to jail for insane driving stunts and maunevers in the Z-06. Going fast in his cars is almost pins and needles, the car steps out with mid punch of the gas, full throttle and the tires are roasting and the back end is swinging wide in some cases with the TCS and DSC on!

His car is a beast and gets respect for what it is.... but his car is not fun to drive .

I think enthusiast , reviewers , etc are seeking after a car that is a pleasure to drive 24/7 ,not WOT strait away banzai runs. There looking for a car that can be pushed to its limits without the car taking the driver to there limit in a mental state.
Mazda delievers such a car and follows almost the Porsche way, build a car that can please the soul, go fast, handle execptionally well,looks good, and won't leave the driver having a mild heart attack while driving it, but keeps the driver coming back for more. The Rx-8 to me IMO, drives alot like a Porsche 911 , there easy to drive , now of course when taking in a 911 to its limit or beyond and once that back ends gets away from you, you can pretty kiss it good bye and just enjoy the ride until you smack into something. But that could be said for any car when taken over its limit.

The Z drives well in my opinion ,its stiff ,not Z-06 stiff , but the car drives well overall. But the Rx-8.... it drives well like the Z, a tad softer , its just more fun to drive.

Car enthusiast know what i meen , you can't explain it on paper, when it feels right, it just feels right. I am Z man from heart ...and from all my Z cars i owned, i loved my 280Z best out of all of them , no it wasn't the fastest,but it was the car that did everything so Danm well and it was a fun car to drive ! Like the 8...

Its sad many manufactures miss that key factor now adays ... no matter what the car can or can't do, make the car fun to drive.Thats all us enthusiast ask for...

donack456

Someone wrote - If your only criteria to judge a more "fun" car is torque, then your Z can take the crown over the other 2 cars. Otherwise, you're on crack. There's no way in hell a 350 comes anywhere close to a S2000 in driving enjoyment, or an 8. One feels like a motorcycle on 4 wheels (talking about the 9K redline model), the other hardly differentiates itself from its siblings, which brings us to...

I wouldn't say a difference in what you like means their on Crack or out of their mind. What is the major complaint WITH RX-8 "No Torque until high revs". My complaint is because one car handles different, lighter and eaiser doesn't mean the other cars can't handle it all. Look at the Salom speed its very very close.

I think the others mentioned it is a personal choice some drivers consider it a lot of hard work to rev a engine up to 8-9k to get it to perform. When in some cars it only takes dropping the clucht and stabbing the throttle and you off anywhere from 35k-70k. But its all subjective it what each person likes or expect from their Sport Car.


Phantom Menace you make some good points though still personal, its built on not just a brief test drive but determined by time behind the wheel of each. You give credit to both and thats seem to be good advice. The only thing I can say is that must be one good looking drive way a 350Z and RX-8 parked in it. I think these cars are two of the finest looking cars on the Road today, niether is a Porsche but wait a mnute the Z could be a cheap 911 Targa and the Rx-8 a 914 mid engine or 924 Porsche. All still fine legendary Sport Cars.

Man am I envious a 8 and Z!!!

Let me say this I guess I miss the wonderment of the 8s rear seat and large trunk is because I own a Luxury sport sedan and Sport car. To have one that does both I guess is great but I have to believe my rear seats are nicer and more comforatable and my trunk is larger and can carry more luggage.


Yeah the 280z was a kicka$$ for it's day.

GULAMAN

actually, I don't know if it's even been classified yet. previous TT was DS, but if this one is noticeably faster...who knows. would also be interesting to see if the 3.2L Quattro TT is any faster around AutoX than the 2.0T FWD (unchipped), given the purported weight differences between the two.

CarAndDriver

C&D did a short test of the TT 3.2 Quatto. The specs are pretty close, but the 2.0T is a tad quicker due to its lighter weight and S Tronic, but the 3.2 is better balanced due to the AWD. A 3.2 with the S Tronic instead of the 6M might beat the 2.0T.

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...ior-page2.html

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, 4-wheel-drive, 2+2-passenger, 2-door coupe

PRICE AS TESTED: $48,075 (base price: $42,275)

ENGINE TYPE: DOHC 24-valve V-6, iron block and aluminum head, port fuel injection

Displacement: 195 cu in, 3189cc
Power (SAE net): 250 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 236 lb-ft @ 2500 rpm


TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 97.2 in Length: 164.5 in Width: 72.5 in
Height: 53.2 in Curb weight: 3255 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 31.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.5 sec @ 97 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 159 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.93 g

FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 17/24 mpg

TALAN7

If you wouldv'e read my post I said 0-100 times not 0-60, which you agreed with hurt the 8