Smoke Honda

iTrader: (1)

I was just wondering, I skipped on the sports package and opted for an apperance package instead. Then I've started to hear that people on this forum that swears by it to drive in bad weather and use it to speed around the track. I know only the basics of it, it analyses the lateral movement of the car and controls the engine to drop speed in case of oversteer and understeer. I, however, don't know what it looks like from a mechanical view, like how's it's installed in the car and how does it really operate. I would like to install it into my 8 if it's a possibility. If not, is there an aftermarket DSC system that I can use? And what parts is nessacary to install a DSC unit, I kinda have a feeling that I might have regret NOT buying the sports package, this bodykit is looking uglier by the day .

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I wanted a basic RX8, but got one with the Sport package. I don't think the DSC controls the engine speed. What it does do is apply braking to the individual wheels to maintain control. In my opinion, it hits to hard on dry roads and not enough on wet or snowy ones. YMMV
Can you upgrade? I'm not an expert on the car, but I think it would take a little bit of work. And you will end up knowing more about the cars electrical system then many mechanics. I hope I didn't pay the extra money for a couple of fuses.
The headlights on the Sport model are great tho.

Smoke Honda

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I probaly was wrong about the engine speed, the only thing I've heard about it was word of mouth. Although I think it's not done with a couple of fuses, I can care less about your headlights :p . Stay on the subject, DSC!!!! :D

beachdog

can't say for sure whether the rpm's are controlled by the DSC in the 8. In my other car with DSC, it does retard the timing which indirectly will affect the rpm and the torque.

G8rboy

There are two aspects to the unit- stability control and traction control. The TCS program detects wheel spin and reduces power until wheelspin is minimized, where as the stability control program uses a gyro combined with steering wheel angle sensor to determine when stability is being comprimised (oversteer or understeer), and applies the brakes at one corner to correct that. I don't think that it reduces power as well, but it might...

Anyway, regarding having it installed after the fact, I think it would be pretty expensive. You'd have to have the gyro sensor installed unless you have the Navi unit... I assume the wiring is there already, but you never know. Then there's the underhood unit that controls the DSC (looks like an ABS unit), and I would have to guess that the ECU in a non-DSC car would have to be reflashed... but maybe not. Don't know if the steering wheel angle sensor is installed on all cars or not, but that's another factor to consider.

Basically that's a lot of stuff to think about... and I don't see it being worth the expense.

Ellar

All that word of mouth is from frightened n00bie drivers who learned to drive on front wheel drive cars. Oversteer is schweet. Those people swearing by the DSC? They're slow, unimaginative wannabes. Who do they wannabe??? ME!!! BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Smoke Honda

iTrader: (1)

It was actually from a mustang driver, but it's all good tho. And who wants to be like you?! nobody, not even your kids!! :p j/k sorry, kinda left yourself open for that one. LOL seriously tho, explain: unimaginative, do you mean that a person on a race track does better with or without DSC?? Or is it only proffessional driver kind of territory to drive without DSC around a track? -thanks

Ellar

So who are the Mustang drivers on this forum that told you all about DSC?

Most reports I've seen on this forum say the DSC slows you way down on the track, but they think it keeps you safe. Why anyone would want to drive around on a track feeling safe is beyond me.

You should see the same thing if you use the Search feature at the top of the page.

G8rboy

The one time I left DSC on by accident while autocrossing was my worst time for that day, by a long shot. It's far too intrusive to be a benefit on events where oversteer is king. I enjoy it in crappy weather, but it shouldn't be considered a 'performance feature' of the car.

Smoke Honda

iTrader: (1)

none. The mustang owner that told me about this is actually my brother in law, and the one who I heard from "word of mouth". I would've used the search button, but it hasn't helped at all in times past, we don't have a very good search. What I was thinking of DSC is a combination of want I heard and what I've read, possibly wanting to get it if either of which advantage works out. I live in Boston, where it snowed two weeks ago, and is a very hill oriented area only to be topped off by me being a newbie stick driver I spin the rear more often then usually. This is the 1st reason I wanted it is and it happened every time there is a turn on the downside of the hill or upside in the rain. The second being the same reason I brought a manual, to really know how to handle the car. But if you guys say that DSC is a disadvantage on the track but only sometimes helps in bad weather then I don't know really need it??

RX8SaxMan

I have a base model, and the only time I've ever missed DSC was when it started snowing and I fishtailed the car...the day after I bought it. Of course this is my first RWD car, and now I really enjoy the occasional loss of traction

Wurmfist

If it's like the company I work for, it's already in there, you just have to pay for it. And they enter a code or something that "turns it on". It's much cheaper to mass produce a car with all the same parts. I wouldn't be surprised if Mazda did that.

G8rboy

Some of the wiring and electrical bits might be in there, but the actual DSC unit has brake lines going in and out of it will not be in a non-DSC car... that would be an unnecessary and complicated expense for a car without it. And I would be surprised if the gryo unit would be as well. It's not just a simple computer function that is 'turned on'...

G8rboy

It really comes down to how comfortable you are with a rear wheel drive car... the RX8 is very well balanced and has a LSD in the rear, so you're much better off learning the car's limits without DSC. People that are experiencing RWD for the first time and are relying on DSC to keep the tail from coming around won't know how to react when there's too much traction loss for DSC to counteract. You'll be a much better driver learning this way- you'll just need to slow down and take it easy in crappy weather. A tail-happy oversteering car can really be a blast to drive, especially in the snow and rain, once you know what you're doing.

MassiveAttack

The base cars have ABS, right? So they'll have the wheel sensors and the ABS unit to control braking at each wheel. Don't know about steering angle and gyro, though...

--Massive

G8rboy

Wheel sensors, yes, but not the DSC logic controller. In DSC equipped cars the ABS HU/CM is replaced with a DSC HU/CM that handles both ABS and DSC duties.

After looking at the wiring diagrams, on top of not having the required DSC control module, the wiring in a non-DSC car is not compatible either, as the connector harness to the ABS HU/CM is completely different and has no pins for yaw rate and lateral-g measurements as the DSC harness does.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I spun my car in the rain yesterday 900 degrees and I attribute it to the DSC and worn tires. I have many years of autocrossing / road racing experience and know how to handle a car. I started correcting for a slide, when the car started to hydroplane, the DSC kicked in exaggerating the correction. This caused a whipping effect and I eventually lost all control. I ended up looking in the wrong direction on the expressway. I didn't touch anything thankfully. I am now considering finding a way to permanently disabling DSC.
Until yesterday, I would have said us it for everyday driving. Now, I say find out what the limits are and don't overdrive the car.

MazdaRich

Thanks for the input about the DSC. I think I am going for the base model now. I also autocross and understand driving dynamics pretty well. I've made it this far without having a nanny in my ECU! I did spin my Miata one time on a public road due to some gravel, however.