Automatic V.S. Manual debate
04-10-2008, 09:52 PM
#104
I don't buy Kool-Aid
There is no debate. the manual will always be better than the auto. Even with the same engine and 6 gears, the new auto doesn't have the same redline as the manual. It's the higher rpms where the rotary engine makes it's music heard 
Of course, if you go aftermarket, and increase the rpm limit and make sure your slushbox can handle it, then you might get close to breaking even.
Of course, if you go aftermarket, and increase the rpm limit and make sure your slushbox can handle it, then you might get close to breaking even.
-Gil
04-10-2008, 10:07 PM
#105
Destroying Threads
its ok Merlin, I didn't expect you to understand it with your puny sized.......everything lol
jk my friend, Atilla pretty much cleared up what i wanted to say
delay is minimal in the shift, i really think in real world situation, an AT will always shift faster than most of us anyways.
now, if you add modding to your AT vs MT, I would say the AT will gain less hp, and possibly tranny issues due to torque converter mostly.
but if stock vs stock, and if you dont plan on modding anyways, I think the AT is good enough for you, I love drinking starbucks when I drive, I cant anymore
as for Atilla, the dude is so suited for an MT, but somehow bought an AT, now that is wierd
jk my friend, Atilla pretty much cleared up what i wanted to say
delay is minimal in the shift, i really think in real world situation, an AT will always shift faster than most of us anyways.
now, if you add modding to your AT vs MT, I would say the AT will gain less hp, and possibly tranny issues due to torque converter mostly.
but if stock vs stock, and if you dont plan on modding anyways, I think the AT is good enough for you, I love drinking starbucks when I drive, I cant anymore
as for Atilla, the dude is so suited for an MT, but somehow bought an AT, now that is wierd
04-11-2008, 12:53 AM
#106
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Which do you prefer?
Last edited by 07rx8gtblack; 04-11-2008 at 02:44 PM.
04-11-2008, 03:10 AM
#107
I don't buy Kool-Aid
04-11-2008, 02:53 PM
#109
Leave our Dok-do alone!!!
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Sorry for the tasteless post above.
Just wanted to point out that everyone has difference preferences and needs. Don't crap on something just because that is not your preference.
Just wanted to point out that everyone has difference preferences and needs. Don't crap on something just because that is not your preference.
04-11-2008, 03:06 PM
#111
Before I got this car, I had a choice between a BMW 335i or a RX-8. I chose the RX-8 because I desired a more sporty car. And if it was sporty, I definately had to have it in manual.
If I not like driving manual, i would have chosen the BMW because I do not want a neutered sports car, absolutely dumb in my opinion.
If I not like driving manual, i would have chosen the BMW because I do not want a neutered sports car, absolutely dumb in my opinion.
04-11-2008, 03:42 PM
#112
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Semi-Automatic ( dual-clutch transmission ) would end all debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-au...c_transmission
Arguably, Mazda should have went in this direction. 1 engine type and 1 transmission type would have saved them money. If they wanted to do something else, they could have focused on FI. Instead Mazda lost its mind with different engines and different transmission, causing numerous issues.
If you have a 4AT or 6AT the thing to do is get the rev limit removed (via ECU flash), get an automatic transmission cooler or BHR radiator, and upgrade the automatic transmission fluid. For a 6AT, this should put them closer in performance to the 6MT.
Something that MT people keep forgetting is that the 4AT and 6AT have a manual mode that allows you to shift gears, kind of like a semi-automatic, but still limited by the torque converter.
Furthermore, there has been so many times that I have watched people with manuals misshift under pressure (even experienced ones), that its ridiculous. You get the performance from a manual, provided you shift properly, and that does not always happen. Automatics and semi-automatics also provide more consistency.
There are many reasons to go automatic and high performance sports car like the new Nissan GTR compromises by having a semi-automatic. However that 3.3 in 0-60 with the semi-automatic is not much of a compromise.
Traffic (being one of the biggest), movie watching, car navigator adjusting, sex, cel. phones, etc.... are various reasons why people want automatics, even if they can drive a manual.
Arguably, Mazda should have went in this direction. 1 engine type and 1 transmission type would have saved them money. If they wanted to do something else, they could have focused on FI. Instead Mazda lost its mind with different engines and different transmission, causing numerous issues.
If you have a 4AT or 6AT the thing to do is get the rev limit removed (via ECU flash), get an automatic transmission cooler or BHR radiator, and upgrade the automatic transmission fluid. For a 6AT, this should put them closer in performance to the 6MT.
Something that MT people keep forgetting is that the 4AT and 6AT have a manual mode that allows you to shift gears, kind of like a semi-automatic, but still limited by the torque converter.
Furthermore, there has been so many times that I have watched people with manuals misshift under pressure (even experienced ones), that its ridiculous. You get the performance from a manual, provided you shift properly, and that does not always happen. Automatics and semi-automatics also provide more consistency.
There are many reasons to go automatic and high performance sports car like the new Nissan GTR compromises by having a semi-automatic. However that 3.3 in 0-60 with the semi-automatic is not much of a compromise.
Traffic (being one of the biggest), movie watching, car navigator adjusting, sex, cel. phones, etc.... are various reasons why people want automatics, even if they can drive a manual.
04-11-2008, 05:39 PM
#113
ferrari's clutchless manual shifts in the neighborhood of .0001 seconds.
.5 seconds is a LOOONG time. thats the difference between running mid 13s and 14s. im pretty sure i can shift a lot faster than that.
and sorry razz, im pretty sure mazda reduced the hp, again, to 215hp for the 09 6MT. and if you calculate the standard drivetrain loss it matches up... 215*.15=32; 215-32=183
im sure you know what most rx8s dyno at.
.5 seconds is a LOOONG time. thats the difference between running mid 13s and 14s. im pretty sure i can shift a lot faster than that.
and sorry razz, im pretty sure mazda reduced the hp, again, to 215hp for the 09 6MT. and if you calculate the standard drivetrain loss it matches up... 215*.15=32; 215-32=183
im sure you know what most rx8s dyno at.
04-11-2008, 11:02 PM
#114
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thread name should have been called:
auto vs manual-racers/dyno
then another thread called:
auto vs manual-all you other drivers (I would be in this group)
...at any rate interesting stuff to read...from both groups.
hum...nice weather tomorrow, might have to take the wing out instead of the rx8
auto vs manual-racers/dyno
then another thread called:
auto vs manual-all you other drivers (I would be in this group)
...at any rate interesting stuff to read...from both groups.
hum...nice weather tomorrow, might have to take the wing out instead of the rx8
04-22-2008, 02:04 AM
#116
Something missing here about the 4AT is its potential. You have to shift less in 0-60 and 1/4 mile WOT.
Less shifting, equal more consistency and less chance of misshift. FI a 4AT and it should be competitive in 1/4 mile. Figure out the riddle of the annoying torque converter and the 4AT becomes a very mean 1/4 mile competitor and will take out a number of manuals (including FI ones and depending on mods).
Take the latest Mazsport tranny introduction as an example. It is a 5 speed transmission, because 1st gear for an FI RX-8 becomes worthless.
Best of both worlds would be a 300+HP NA or FI 5 speed semi-automatic.
Now if Mazda had any sense, that is what they would had came out with or what they will build in the future. The configuration people usually talk about, be they 4AT, 6AT, or 6MT are NOT reflective of the optimum potential of an RX-8.
The funny thing in the Mazda multiple engine and multiple transmission madness is that they made a 5MT 4 port, which I was always curious how an FI 5MT would perform. If the tranny could hold up, a kit to convert it to clutchless would have been/be interesting.
Less shifting, equal more consistency and less chance of misshift. FI a 4AT and it should be competitive in 1/4 mile. Figure out the riddle of the annoying torque converter and the 4AT becomes a very mean 1/4 mile competitor and will take out a number of manuals (including FI ones and depending on mods).
Take the latest Mazsport tranny introduction as an example. It is a 5 speed transmission, because 1st gear for an FI RX-8 becomes worthless.
Best of both worlds would be a 300+HP NA or FI 5 speed semi-automatic.
Now if Mazda had any sense, that is what they would had came out with or what they will build in the future. The configuration people usually talk about, be they 4AT, 6AT, or 6MT are NOT reflective of the optimum potential of an RX-8.
The funny thing in the Mazda multiple engine and multiple transmission madness is that they made a 5MT 4 port, which I was always curious how an FI 5MT would perform. If the tranny could hold up, a kit to convert it to clutchless would have been/be interesting.
Last edited by sosonic; 04-22-2008 at 02:12 AM.
09-04-2008, 07:18 PM
#118
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Im buying a 09 in March but havent decided if want a AT or MT. I know I'll love driving the MT on the weekends but maybe not so much to work during the week. I do stop at Tim Hortons for coffee. lol
09-04-2008, 07:30 PM
#119
I just don't see the point of the AT version; I don't even understand why Mazda makes it. If you want an easy driving car with some pep get a sports sedan with AT. If you want a sports car, MT is really the only way to go. And that goes double for the RX-8, since the rotary is wasted with the low redline on the AT version.
If you really want an AT, there are lots of good cars to choose from. But the RX-8 isn't one of them. If you don't want the MT, get a different car.
If you really want an AT, there are lots of good cars to choose from. But the RX-8 isn't one of them. If you don't want the MT, get a different car.
09-04-2008, 08:05 PM
#121
Registered
I just don't see the point of the AT version; I don't even understand why Mazda makes it.
While the rest of us get MTs and fantasize that we're Richie Ginther or Phil Hill. Or Pete Aron.
It's all about what makes us happy. AT people deserve to be happy, too.
Ken
09-04-2008, 08:48 PM
#123
Why are you guy bashing the AT? I thought this was a debate.
Some people like the convenience of the AT. Some people like to push there foot down on the clutch all the time.
As far as HP goes. I have 172WHP in my 4 port AT. That's about what most MT's do. Only difference is I don't have to push the clutch in to shift.
Some people like the convenience of the AT. Some people like to push there foot down on the clutch all the time.
As far as HP goes. I have 172WHP in my 4 port AT. That's about what most MT's do. Only difference is I don't have to push the clutch in to shift.
09-04-2008, 08:59 PM
#124
Why are you guy bashing the AT? I thought this was a debate.
Some people like the convenience of the AT. Some people like to push there foot down on the clutch all the time.
As far as HP goes. I have 172WHP in my 4 port AT. That's about what most MT's do. Only difference is I don't have to push the clutch in to shift.
Some people like the convenience of the AT. Some people like to push there foot down on the clutch all the time.
As far as HP goes. I have 172WHP in my 4 port AT. That's about what most MT's do. Only difference is I don't have to push the clutch in to shift.
when it comes to Traffic ... AT wins hands down.
when it comes to performance ... if we're talking about OUR 8's AT then .. MT wins hands down, if its SMG/DSG/GR6 kind of AT then ... those AT will win hands down.
09-04-2008, 09:36 PM
#125
I know what your saying nycgps , but I just get tired of people bashing the AT.
I plan on improving the power a bit more and the one thing is my AT has a bit more torque than the MT's do.
As far as shifting goes,, 1st to 2nd is good and solid. Pushes you back in your seat torque. I have problems in 2nd to 3rd. It can "slip" in between shifts if I'm above 8200 rpm. And it spins up to 9000 reel quick and doesn't shift till you let off. If there was a way to control that then I'd be a happy camper.
I plan on improving the power a bit more and the one thing is my AT has a bit more torque than the MT's do.
As far as shifting goes,, 1st to 2nd is good and solid. Pushes you back in your seat torque. I have problems in 2nd to 3rd. It can "slip" in between shifts if I'm above 8200 rpm. And it spins up to 9000 reel quick and doesn't shift till you let off. If there was a way to control that then I'd be a happy camper.