Another oil question.
03-07-2008, 08:51 PM
#26
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Well, Im just going to stick with blends. My only other question would be what would be the safer choice to top it off with? I added Castrol Gtx 5w20 to top mine off, since it IS a blend, and you guys have stated it doesnt really matter which oil I use since its basically half and half. Thanks for all your help guys.
03-07-2008, 08:57 PM
#27
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03-18-2008, 07:10 PM
#29
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there was oil switching post on the mr2 board a few years ago. basically some of those using conventional oil that made the switch to synth found their oil pan or valvecover gaskets leaking many miles afterwards. the theory was that the synth was TOO effective, working itself further in than their conventional counterpart.
03-18-2008, 07:27 PM
#30
I suspect it's not a big deal if you choose non-synthetic or synthetic. Probably more important that you change it regularly and keep the oil level up. Everything I've read suggests there's no problem with changing grades or going from synth to non-synth or visa-versa. Non-synthetic 5W-20 is apparently partly synthetic itself.
That's not a very good analogy; in every owner's manual in every car sold—without exception—there's a warning about not using aftermarket parts. Every car. It's standard legal copy.
But there's only one manufacturer who recommends only non-synthetic oil: Mazda. And only for the RX-8. That tells me something.
Finally, remember that technology continues to march on. Today, we can get online AND receive phone calls, simultaneously. In the same way, we can now "plus" gas mileage slightly AND fully protect the engine; it's no longer an either/or proposition. What's more, 5W-20 may be better for your engine at cold start-up.
Take a moment and think: why would Mazda recommend a grade of oil that wouldn't fully protect the Renesis, their technological pride & joy? Why would they recommend a grade of oil resulting in shortened engine life and costly engine replacements, knowing full well that the new rotary engined car—the RX-8—would be in the spotlight with the world's automotive press ready to pounce on any reliability problems? And if turned out the 5W-20 was, in fact, too thin to offer full protection, why would Mazda continue to recommend the same grade of oil five years after the car was introduced??
Common sense is a wonderful thing.
But there's only one manufacturer who recommends only non-synthetic oil: Mazda. And only for the RX-8. That tells me something.
Finally, remember that technology continues to march on. Today, we can get online AND receive phone calls, simultaneously. In the same way, we can now "plus" gas mileage slightly AND fully protect the engine; it's no longer an either/or proposition. What's more, 5W-20 may be better for your engine at cold start-up.
Take a moment and think: why would Mazda recommend a grade of oil that wouldn't fully protect the Renesis, their technological pride & joy? Why would they recommend a grade of oil resulting in shortened engine life and costly engine replacements, knowing full well that the new rotary engined car—the RX-8—would be in the spotlight with the world's automotive press ready to pounce on any reliability problems? And if turned out the 5W-20 was, in fact, too thin to offer full protection, why would Mazda continue to recommend the same grade of oil five years after the car was introduced??
Common sense is a wonderful thing.
if 5w20 is really what you're thinking, *offers enough protection*, I guess you might want to explain why Mazda just threw another one of these *new flashes* out to *increase lube for apex seals*. keep this in mind before you answer it : "Only North America Market Rx-8 will get this new flash*
Remember no one else besides the NA market will get another one of these *increase OMP rate* flashes. Does that tell you something ? Unless we have some *special uber 1337 ACME Renesis* of which requires more than usual lubrication than the rest of the world.
Oh also tell me what is the differents between 5w20 and 5w30 when cold @ the same temp. Well I know for the fact that 5w30 will *reduce* wear better than 5w20 when hot. fact.
Its just funny that people ignoring those *aftermarket part* thing completely, then they turn around and say *oh cuz Mazda does not recommend the use of Synthetics ...*
Last edited by nycgps; 03-18-2008 at 07:30 PM.
03-18-2008, 07:40 PM
#31
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5w20 is already partly Synthetic itself.
It is a wonderful thing that NA is the only market that recommends 5w20, and oh yes we're the only market where will get these "increase OMP rate" every 1/2 year or so, does that tell you something ?
if 5w20 is really what you're thinking, *offers enough protection*, I guess you might want to explain why Mazda just threw another one of these *new flashes* out to *increase lube for apex seals*. keep this in mind before you answer it : "Only North America Market Rx-8 will get this new flash*
Remember no one else besides the NA market will get another one of these *increase OMP rate* flashes. Does that tell you something ? Unless we have some *special uber 1337 ACME Renesis* of which requires more than usual lubrication than the rest of the world.
Oh also tell me what is the differents between 5w20 and 5w30 when cold @ the same temp. Well I know for the fact that 5w30 will *reduce* wear better than 5w20 when hot. fact.
No auto-companies recommend the use of aftermarket parts. does that mean aftermarket parts are bad ? nooooooooooooooooooooooo. In fact, aftermarket parts are usually higher quality than OEM simply because if OE is the best, no aftermarket part would exist.
Its just funny that people ignoring those *aftermarket part* thing completely, then they turn around and say *oh cuz Mazda does not recommend the use of Synthetics ...*
It is a wonderful thing that NA is the only market that recommends 5w20, and oh yes we're the only market where will get these "increase OMP rate" every 1/2 year or so, does that tell you something ?
if 5w20 is really what you're thinking, *offers enough protection*, I guess you might want to explain why Mazda just threw another one of these *new flashes* out to *increase lube for apex seals*. keep this in mind before you answer it : "Only North America Market Rx-8 will get this new flash*
Remember no one else besides the NA market will get another one of these *increase OMP rate* flashes. Does that tell you something ? Unless we have some *special uber 1337 ACME Renesis* of which requires more than usual lubrication than the rest of the world.
Oh also tell me what is the differents between 5w20 and 5w30 when cold @ the same temp. Well I know for the fact that 5w30 will *reduce* wear better than 5w20 when hot. fact.
No auto-companies recommend the use of aftermarket parts. does that mean aftermarket parts are bad ? nooooooooooooooooooooooo. In fact, aftermarket parts are usually higher quality than OEM simply because if OE is the best, no aftermarket part would exist.
Its just funny that people ignoring those *aftermarket part* thing completely, then they turn around and say *oh cuz Mazda does not recommend the use of Synthetics ...*
AMEN TO YOU MAN! 20 K miles on royal purple 5w-30 and still going strong!
ive switched from synthetic to regular.. to see the difference and the response is a little better. and the gas mileage dropped a bit after goignt hicker.. car idles a little smoother as well. no oil leaks or anything. BTW i have 43K miles
i like synthetic because i dont have to top it off as much.. it doesnt burn as easy as conventional oil.
I remember a while back i got a cd from mazda saying they do not reccomend the use of synthetic oils simply because they do not know what are the long term effects of it.
03-18-2008, 08:18 PM
#32
I would tend to agree that what the car company recommends is valid and well tested; however, you must realize that if Mazda came out and said that 5W-20 was wrong for these cars, they could be facing recalls, class action lawsuits, and a lot of unhappy customers. That is just a thought though.
IMO you have to use your best judgement to pick the right oil for you, and when and how often you should change it. That said, it is important to understand how oil works too.
IMO you have to use your best judgement to pick the right oil for you, and when and how often you should change it. That said, it is important to understand how oil works too.
03-18-2008, 10:07 PM
#33
AMEN TO YOU MAN! 20 K miles on royal purple 5w-30 and still going strong!
ive switched from synthetic to regular.. to see the difference and the response is a little better. and the gas mileage dropped a bit after goignt hicker.. car idles a little smoother as well. no oil leaks or anything. BTW i have 43K miles
i like synthetic because i dont have to top it off as much.. it doesnt burn as easy as conventional oil.
I remember a while back i got a cd from mazda saying they do not reccomend the use of synthetic oils simply because they do not know what are the long term effects of it.
ive switched from synthetic to regular.. to see the difference and the response is a little better. and the gas mileage dropped a bit after goignt hicker.. car idles a little smoother as well. no oil leaks or anything. BTW i have 43K miles
i like synthetic because i dont have to top it off as much.. it doesnt burn as easy as conventional oil.
I remember a while back i got a cd from mazda saying they do not reccomend the use of synthetic oils simply because they do not know what are the long term effects of it.
03-19-2008, 04:51 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by frig
I have a question that might fit here. If Mazda requires non synth oil under warranty, why would Castorol Syntec be a major sponsor for the winning RX8 at 24 hrs of Daytona?
When you can explain when it became a part of, or even relevant to this discussion I will warrant it with an answer.
03-19-2008, 05:26 AM
#36
1. 0W20 or 0W30 would be better during start up. Your oil gets cold in the winter, BUT also cold when you turn your car OFF.
The oil that would warm up the fastest and start protecting your engine would be 0W oils. Oil does not start protecting your engine properly until it warms to around 160 F degrees.
The most engine wear happens when you turn your car on and before the oil is warm (even in warm weather).
2. I would use synthetic because it would burn cleaner and protect from heat better than dino.
If you are paranoid about synthetic, than I say use Castrol because that is what Mazda dealers in Japan have been using. If you are not paranoid than use what you like. If you are extremely paranoid than Castrol also makes synthetic blend, so you can have both ways. Though I think better to go synthetic than synthetic blend.
If you car is new or near that, than wait until you have gone at least 10,000 miles. Before switching over to synthetic.
3. Of synthetics, Ester based ones supposedly offer the most protecting during startup. This is because they cling to metal better and protect during "cold starts". I'm using Motul (Ester based synthetic) 0W30 with no problems.
4. I would use W30, instead of W20 oil because it will offer a bit more protection. Dino W20 is going to break down to less than that from time and heat. Dino W30 will break down over time and heat to closer to W20. With the slightly thicker oil you are protecting your engine from wear. Synthetics would be more resistant to breaking down, so are more likely to be the same weight if you change your oil every 3,500 to 5,000 miles.
Though unscientific I experimented with W20 and W30 oil in my car. I did not like how the car sounded with W20 oil. There is a detectable audio difference and the car idles and sounds smoother with the W30 oil.
I did get slightly better gas mileage with the W20 oil, which might be the "trick" of why Mazda recommended it.
Something else to think about. Mazda dealers will put W30 oil in the RX-8s in Japan. Also W30 is recommended for the RX-8 in various other countries.
The oil that would warm up the fastest and start protecting your engine would be 0W oils. Oil does not start protecting your engine properly until it warms to around 160 F degrees.
The most engine wear happens when you turn your car on and before the oil is warm (even in warm weather).
2. I would use synthetic because it would burn cleaner and protect from heat better than dino.
If you are paranoid about synthetic, than I say use Castrol because that is what Mazda dealers in Japan have been using. If you are not paranoid than use what you like. If you are extremely paranoid than Castrol also makes synthetic blend, so you can have both ways. Though I think better to go synthetic than synthetic blend.
If you car is new or near that, than wait until you have gone at least 10,000 miles. Before switching over to synthetic.
3. Of synthetics, Ester based ones supposedly offer the most protecting during startup. This is because they cling to metal better and protect during "cold starts". I'm using Motul (Ester based synthetic) 0W30 with no problems.
4. I would use W30, instead of W20 oil because it will offer a bit more protection. Dino W20 is going to break down to less than that from time and heat. Dino W30 will break down over time and heat to closer to W20. With the slightly thicker oil you are protecting your engine from wear. Synthetics would be more resistant to breaking down, so are more likely to be the same weight if you change your oil every 3,500 to 5,000 miles.
Though unscientific I experimented with W20 and W30 oil in my car. I did not like how the car sounded with W20 oil. There is a detectable audio difference and the car idles and sounds smoother with the W30 oil.
I did get slightly better gas mileage with the W20 oil, which might be the "trick" of why Mazda recommended it.
Something else to think about. Mazda dealers will put W30 oil in the RX-8s in Japan. Also W30 is recommended for the RX-8 in various other countries.
I suspect it's not a big deal if you choose non-synthetic or synthetic. Probably more important that you change it regularly and keep the oil level up. Everything I've read suggests there's no problem with changing grades or going from synth to non-synth or visa-versa. Non-synthetic 5W-20 is apparently partly synthetic itself.
That's not a very good analogy; in every owner's manual in every car sold—without exception—there's a warning about not using aftermarket parts. Every car. It's standard legal copy.
But there's only one manufacturer who recommends only non-synthetic oil: Mazda. And only for the RX-8. That tells me something.
Finally, remember that technology continues to march on. Today, we can get online AND receive phone calls, simultaneously. In the same way, we can now "plus" gas mileage slightly AND fully protect the engine; it's no longer an either/or proposition. What's more, 5W-20 may be better for your engine at cold start-up.
Take a moment and think: why would Mazda recommend a grade of oil that wouldn't fully protect the Renesis, their technological pride & joy? Why would they recommend a grade of oil resulting in shortened engine life and costly engine replacements, knowing full well that the new rotary engined car—the RX-8—would be in the spotlight with the world's automotive press ready to pounce on any reliability problems? And if turned out the 5W-20 was, in fact, too thin to offer full protection, why would Mazda continue to recommend the same grade of oil five years after the car was introduced??
Common sense is a wonderful thing.
That's not a very good analogy; in every owner's manual in every car sold—without exception—there's a warning about not using aftermarket parts. Every car. It's standard legal copy.
But there's only one manufacturer who recommends only non-synthetic oil: Mazda. And only for the RX-8. That tells me something.
Finally, remember that technology continues to march on. Today, we can get online AND receive phone calls, simultaneously. In the same way, we can now "plus" gas mileage slightly AND fully protect the engine; it's no longer an either/or proposition. What's more, 5W-20 may be better for your engine at cold start-up.
Take a moment and think: why would Mazda recommend a grade of oil that wouldn't fully protect the Renesis, their technological pride & joy? Why would they recommend a grade of oil resulting in shortened engine life and costly engine replacements, knowing full well that the new rotary engined car—the RX-8—would be in the spotlight with the world's automotive press ready to pounce on any reliability problems? And if turned out the 5W-20 was, in fact, too thin to offer full protection, why would Mazda continue to recommend the same grade of oil five years after the car was introduced??
Common sense is a wonderful thing.
03-19-2008, 02:20 PM
#37
I don't know if has anything to do with the oil grade, but as far as I know, the RX-8s sold in Germany (and probably all of Europe) do not have as much horsepower as the ones sold in the U.S. However, the European ones use 5w-30 grade oil.
03-19-2008, 03:28 PM
#38
The RX-8 at Daytona doesnt have to deal with everyday people. The motor probably gets stripped down after each race, they possibly inject oil from a seperate reservior etc, etc. I woudn't really consider them comparable.
When you can explain when it became a part of, or even relevant to this discussion I will warrant it with an answer.
When you can explain when it became a part of, or even relevant to this discussion I will warrant it with an answer.
Now Im going to wait for your answer.
03-19-2008, 03:38 PM
#39
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So I have a question... why does everyone say they have to top off their oil in their cars? I have a 12 year old Nissan with 215,000 miles and I never top off the oil. I am considering buying an RX-8 in the next few days and don't want to buy a brand new car that requires that kind of attention.
03-19-2008, 03:54 PM
#44
^Because, unlike ordinary engines, the Renesis has an Oil Meter Pump that injects a small quantity of oil into the chambers to help keep the rotors/seals lubricated. So, by design, the rotary consumes a small amount of oil. Not very much.
03-19-2008, 04:01 PM
#45
Metatron
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I don't top mine off, fill in fall, let it drop over Winter, then change when it's low in Spring. Less to throw out! Why fill if you are changing it next week anyway!?!!?
Works for me.....
S
Works for me.....
S
03-19-2008, 04:47 PM
#48
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