Pappy

Howdy,

Send your deleted sunroofs down to Australia - I'll take one!

Mazda's wisdom doesn't even have this as an option down here.

My previous BMW 328 had one, as did the Astina 323 SP before that - would love one on the RX8!

Pappy

racerdave

See... that just makes no sense. It's an option in Canada, which is nice... you can't *not* get it in the US on the two higher-priced packages... and you can't even get a moonroof in Oz!

WTF?

Japan8

You can't even get a sunroof in Japan either.

Now you tell me about costs and production... this seems to have little to do with that and more to do with mistaken marketing.

WTF?!

serff

I sent my email. I plan on taking my 8 to the track at least once. If I can't fit in it with a helmut (which i don't know if I can with a moonroof), then that would just suck. I want to have some fun in my car dang it!

Thanks for the suggestion!
serff

racerdave

Thanks Serff!

clyde

It's ALL about money. And that's the way it has to be.

It's not about whether it's physically possible to offer a single option by itself because, in nearly all cases, it is. The question is whether it can be offered at a price point where they will sell enough of that stand alone option to meet their profit targets. On top of that, dealers (particularly in the US and other countries where the consumer can't be forced to take delivery of a custom spec'd car) don't want to be stuck with cars in oddball configurations that they can't find buyers for if the original customer backs out after the car is built.

So, they have product planners that do market research in the different markets where the cars will be sold and they put together option packages. There will always be some people that are unhappy with the package contents, but manufacturers and their subsidiary organizations in other countries (MNAO in the US) spend a lot of time and money on determining those packages for each market and they generally do a pretty good job in satisfying the masses that buy the cars. It's only the weirdos like us that complain with any volume. If/when we complain loug and long enough to make them think that they can change package contents and still hit their profit targets, the packages change in subsequent model years.

syntrix

That's what I did, and it's still a tight fit with a helmet on when I'm on the track.

I got a sport, so cloth and no sunroof.

I might have considered GT with no sunroof, but leather can get a bit slippy and hot when it's 110+ degrees out. Hmmm, other GT options with cloth and no sunroof

greese

i sent my email.

I am 6'1". My head rests against the roof if there is a moonroof. It is currently the ONLY reason i do not have an 8 right now. I am picky. I want leather and I want Nav. Aftermarket leather is more hassle than i want to deal with. I guess that makes me picky and lazy.

My hope is they will get this fixed for 05. If they don't then i will be buying something else.

greese

Vaillant

I sent Mazda a message and I just received a reply. Here it is:


Dear Matthew,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.

In regard to your inquiry, we have heard of this concern from a number
of consumers. I have spoken with our Product Planning Department, and
they don't believe this is going to change for the 2005 model year.
However, they are doing some further research on the subject. I'll get
back to you as soon as I hear back from them. I appreciate your
patience.

Regards,

Lisa Lasky
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business





Original Message Follows:
------------------------


Form Message
First Name: Matthew
Last Name: Vaillant
Current Mazda Owner: true
Model: RX-8
Year: 2004
Message Body: Hello, I'm very interested in the RX-8 (I've been
following it since the RX-Evolv days) and am looking to purchase a car
in the next few months. I've always been a Mazda fan, owning a Miata and
helping my girlfriend pick out a yellow Protege5, and like the sporty
model lineup. My problem with the RX-8 is the fact that with a sunroof
installed, there just isn't enough headroom. While I'm considering the
Sport package, I'd much rather have the GT package. Will there be some
sort of sunroof delete for 2005, or perhaps offer the sunroof as a
standalone option? I know that you try to minimize the number of
different options to keep production costs down, but I've heard quite a
few people complain about this and I think some sales are being lost.
Anyway, thanks for your time, - Matt

racerdave

Great email Matt, and thanks for sharing the response.

Even if you would *not* take advantage of the "Moonroof-delete" option, please help us spam the hell out of Mazda so they will at least offer it for 2005.

It sounds like if we keep ragging on them, they might cave.

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope!

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

That's cool. You got a meaningful response. I work for a Toyota dealer, and I emailed Toyota direct about the 6speed not being available in the Celica GTS for 2001. I got a generic response. It went like "We are sorry but some options and features aren't available in some regions". That sucked. No reason why or anything, just a "that's the way it is and that's it" answer.


I think for the most part, for me, Mazda did alright with the current option packages. I don't like the leather, moonroof, heated seats, or Bose audio, anyway. I'll take if it was free, and I could afford another RX8. One luxo-cruiser and one more stripped down. I wanted the lightest RX8. I got it for performance. I like the way all 6 speeds come with all the performance enhancing stuff standard, (LSD, sport suspension, big brakes, and 18's).

rx8cited

Yikes ....... I hope you people don't spam them so bad that they stop offering a sunroof completely. If the car was not available with a sunroof, I would not even have considered it.

I do support your desires to have a car without a sunroof, though.

Dear Mazda,
Please make the sunroof an option so tall people can buy the car without one ..... then sales will go up even more! And you can then make even more sales by offering the sunroof in places where you currently don't. What, it costs a bit more to do that ......? No problem, they'll pay!

regards,
rx8cited

rx8cited

Yikes ....... I hope you people don't spam them so bad that they stop offering a sunroof completely. If the car was not available with a sunroof, I would not even have considered it.

I do support your desires to have a car without a sunroof, though.

Dear Mazda,
Please make the sunroof an option so tall people can buy the car without one ..... then sales will go up even more! And you can then make even more sales by offering the sunroof in places where you currently don't. What, it costs a bit more to do that ......? No problem, they'll pay!

regards,
rx8cited

red_rx8_red_int

Yes exactly right. Say it costs $200 for Mazda to install a moonroof, mazda invoices the dealer $400 and the dealer retails it at $500, then offer it this as an option for the base and sport packages. At the same time they can still bundle it with the GT and T packages with a $800 option delete choice. I can't see mazda not making money.

Japan8

Start by saying this... anyone who doesn't know /understand that ALL busineses are all about the money are deceiving themselves.

That being said, I think you give entirely too much credit to businesses as a whole. They think they are much more clever than they really are. How is this? Well, we'll talk about the foreign capitalized companies in Japan first (which now both Mazda and Nissan have become).

The problems seen in this area are so many I don't know where to begin. I guess we start with the US-side. They have no understanding of the Japanese market, and seem to lose all common sense they use back in their home market... one prime example is when looking for a country manager or president for the Japan office. They are merely happy to find a bilingual Japanese person with the necessary 7-10 years of sales experience in said market. Mistake number one.

You talk about market research. In the ideal this is true, but reality rarely holds up to the ideal. There are many companies of significant size that open offices in Japan without first doing any kind of market research, and some actually believe that they can come into a mature market with their way and be able to change it! Preposterous! So they limp along in the Japanese market or simply fail. So what about those that do research?

First, I'll assume we all understand probablility and statistics here and say, not only does sample size matter here, but also the actual makeup of said sample group. Manufacturers what to keep upcoming models/prodcuts a secret until close to their release and as such... how can you survey a sample group? You can't... so they are going to try to use existing market data.. i.e. what the competition has and how well it sells. The problem with this "guesstimating" is that the competition's product is not your own. Meaning if we are comparing the BMW 3 series to the RX-8 and this sunroof issue... the 3-series simply has the headroom to have a sunroof when a 6 footer is driving, thus more people are likely to order it with a sunroof... no roof height issue.

Now the above is assuming that the decision makers are actually listening to whatever it is marketing/ product management has to say about said prodcut. For the Japanese market the sad truth is they often times don't listen. Even if the Japan product manager says that the market for said prodcut is not mature yet, and thus should not be sold, or little should be invested into putting it on the market in Japan, the US upper management will often push the prodcut on through anyway. Why? The reasons vary, but one you may often hear is that said product is a key part of the US marketing strategy and thus for worldwide conformity Japan must sell it as well. And then those same people complain when sales don't meet their targets.

Refering back to the country manager/ president example, if you hire a crappy leader, how can you expect the company to do well? Just because XX amount of revenue is being made which is reaching target, does not mean that the company is doing well. If the way of doing business was handled better it is very much conceivable that revenue could far exceed that original quote. For example... a goal of $10 is met and exceed by revenue of $15. This was achieved even though a lack of vision for the companies products in the local market and mismanagement is occuring. Thus the US managers are happy and no one is fired. However, if these issues were addressed the revenue could be $20 instead of $15. No one pays attention to the details and what's wrong as long as "the good times roll."

There is much more that can be said, but this isn't the place for that. Basically the point is it's nice to think that things work based upon ways to achieve the most sales and profit from the sales, but sadly it doesn't work that way in practice.

Japan8

The above being said... did you know that all new cars are custom orders in Japan? Yep, there is no stock of new cars kept at the dealer except for the demos. Additionally the dealerships are all still owned by the manufacturer as it had been in the past in the US. So if everyone orders their car as they like it in Japan, why is it a problem to offer a sunroof as an option or as part of a package in Japan?

clyde

What does the norm of American companies trying to sell in Japan have anything to do with Japanese companies selling in the US? American companies (particularly auto manufacturers) have met with very little success in trying to sell their products outside of North America. Some of the problems they have had have been due to incompetence and/or arrogance (and just bad decision making), but they have also been hamstrung by protectionist Japanese government policies. Whatever the reasons, though, US auto makers have not found a way to sell product in large numbers in Japan.

Japanese auto makers, OTOH, have had great success in the American market for over 30 years. While they've had some misses, overall, they have been very good at it, and are only getting better. Most Japanese auto makers now have design and production facilities in America that are designing and building cars that are only for the American market.

Regarding surveys and sample groups...Do Japanese auto makers not hold focus groups in the Japanese markets like they (and everyone else) do in the US markets long before new products are introduced? The sample sizes are small but usually present a very good and accurate cross section of the targeted demographic. The information gathered from these sessions is used with data collected about sales of competing/similar products and past history. Like I said before, they don't always get it right, but they are usually very, very close with only small tweaks required through the product cycle. Perhaps I overstepped in assuming that the same process was used in other markets as well? Still, the process is not without risk. There have been some famous failures. Recently, in the US market, the Chrysler Pacifica was initially offered with a higher level of standard trim than buyers wanted to pay for. When DC saw that the vehicles weren't selling, with the help of dealer feedback, a less expensive version was introduced that was not nearly as well appointed as the first ones. Once those started making it to dealer lots, they started to move (very aggressive incentives from DC haven't hurt either). Compare to a car like the RX-8 which has been selling close to Mazda's targets.

In the end, where is the incentive for them to change anything when they are already making their numbers?

Japan8

Selling cars in Japan is my "WTF" that you responded to. I commented why does Mazda offer sunroofs on the RX-8 and Protege5 in the US, but not in Japan. So my response to your post has everything to do with that topic.

And enough hijacking this thread.... I'm moving this topic over to https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=18818