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So if this all stems from the Nicon Rotary brace itself (the location of the mounting of the motor mounts on the brace) do I not worry about it? Will it cause increased vibrations or be an issue due to not properly aligned drive shaft? It may be nice to have the extra few inches on the right for the turbo. Other people seem not to have issues with the Nicon Rotary brace.
I guess your friend didn’t know that in addition to the improvements they made on the RX8 version of the 5-speed that the gearing is identical to the USDM FD3
I suppose they may have intentionally shifted the the engine mounting to give more spacing for the turbo stuff. As long as everything fits/clears I’d just go with it.
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So I loosened the motor mounts and dropped the bottom bushings and you can see that the mounts are all the way to the right. No more movement possible without modification which I don’t plan to do. The shifter fits and I will be happy with the extra room for the turbo.
Did you ever talk to Nicon about it? Sounds like it's not going to be an issue but I'm just curious now, is it intentionally over to the left for turbo fitment? I know we aren't comparing apples to apples but with the Banzai mount and my stock 6sp the shifter is exactly where it was with my Renesis.
I've messaged through Ebay but have not sent an email or called the business as they are in Russia. I need to do that, but It definitely looks like they designed the swap brace this way, unless my particular brace is flawed.
Made a mount for the oil filter pedestal/thermostat combo. It turned out positioned very well. Made my own oil lines too. Everything is installed and looks nice just need to secure the lines to prevent movement rubbing.
After receiving this fuel pump hanger/in-tank surge setup, I’m ready to work on the fuel system of which I have no idea what I’m doing. Don’t know the proper way to route the fuel lines in regards to the order of the regulator to the fuel rails and creating a return line.
So any diagrams of best setups from your guys experience would be great.
Also, the last 5 pictures are not of my setup. It’s a friend of mine who has the same pump hanger as me, the JDL manufacturing unit.
Anyways, he set up his like shown and connected the pumps power through relays.
I was thinking about this and if I have the adaptronic modular ECU should I just connect the pumps to the ECU or should I use the stock wiring harness or stock wiring harness with relays?
He has his power coming from the oem harness through relays then to the pump.
what’s the best way to wire the power to the pumps?
Also, I’m sure you will see from the pictures he has a grounding issue.
Friends pictures of how he wired this fuel pump hanger.
just off the top of my head; probably a combination
because you can likely run the main pump just like OE, but will need to verify the amp ratings of the combination to ensure compatibility. That way the low speed circuit will still be maintained for idle and other low load situations. You’ll lose that function just using it as a relay trigger instead, unless you rewire all that too with another relay.
That would leave setting up the 2nd pump with a relay and power wiring as described and then have an ecu trigger strategy for when to turn it on/off to support higher demand when needed.
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So far the consensus is use separate relays for each pump, use ECU trigger wire to activate all and allow the ECU to adjust. It sounds like the oem 2 stage aspects are not used when using stand alone ECU and FPR.
Now my next question is how many pumps will I need for hp goals south of 500whp? My goal is a usable 400-450 whp. Can I use one Walbro 450 and be good? Will that be enough pump if I want to switch to E85?
Yea that's my main concern bypassing/recirculating/heating up which in turn may increase pump failure rate? I imagine the other way to approach the system is wire the lift pump and one wallbro 450 to to the oem trigger and then another wallbro 450 with new wiring to the ECU and having that staged to be triggered when needed? How would I find out if I even need two 450 fuel pumps other than just trying it out?
Seems like others who have done this already have just used the stock system with a larger pump and added a return line. However there are a few people I know doing this swap that are using two 450's due to e85. I suppose I can start with the former and add the later if needed down the line.
Last edited by Warrior777; 02-25-2022 at 08:56 AM.
everything should hinge on your power goal; make sure it’s well covered, but not grossly so
if this is a street car then it makes sense to me for the primary pump to be smaller and handle low load use and bring a larger secondary pump on with demand as needed.
the OE low speed pump mode is just that; it flips over to full pump speed at anything more than low loading. It’s not going to be affecting anything related to power performance. That could just depend on the ecu and how it’s setup though, but it should be done with that specific purpose in mind.
The OE system bypasses, it just does it at the pump discharge directly back into the tank rather at the far end of the fuel line/engine bay and then all the way back to the tank.
The other alternative is pulse width modulation that directly alters pump flow/pressure to only supply the need.
However, if you intend to use a particular tuner of known reputation then maybe you should do it the way they suggest and are familiar tuning with it.
I ran some numbers and making some safety factor assumptions it looked like a single Walbro 450 lph pump will cover 500 whp on street E85 (~70% ethanol), but might be borderline with true E85 and less than 13.0V power supply at the pump.
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I ran some numbers and making some safety factor assumptions it looked like a single Walbro 450 lph pump will cover 500 whp on street E85 (~70% ethanol), but might be borderline with true E85 and less than 13.0V power supply at the pump.
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Brad, I don't have any calculations to share; but I did the single walbro 450lph (will only be using pump fuel) based on the fact that Max is running 20+ psi of boost on a near identical setup to mine with zero fuelling issues. I plan to only run around 15psi and am targeting 400-450whp. Hope that gives you some insight, and apologies I can't comment on E85 as I never had any intention to use it. If I CAN offer any advice.... swapping these engines is a huge undertaking and many systems are getting changed/modified at once. So if you are targeting that 450whp range I would stick with a single pump first and get the car running and all of the kinks worked out before deciding to run any E85 and a more complicated fuel setup. And believe me.... there will be kinks lol; so the more simple things are the easier it will be to iron those out. My 2 cents at least.
Jesse and Mark,
Thank you for your consistent help and recommendations. I appreciate the help.
Reading around on rx7club forum and with your advice I have come to understand the required fuel symptoms for the swap much better. For know I think I'm going to stick with a single walbro 450 in tank with stock or DW lift pump with return line connected to venturi and if I want to go with E85 down the road, I can add more pump. As far as the routing of the fuel system, since I do want to use E85 or at least have that option in the future and since, I have all the parts/connectors to do a parallel fuel line set up I think I've decided to go that direction, even though it seems a inline set up will be sufficient for anything south of 550whp on pump gas. Also, I'm planning on using the stock fuel feed line for the return line as this will eliminate having to run another line under the car. I'm worried about running a new feed line under the car because its not uncommon for me to go off track after making a mistake on a turn. It seems all it will take for there to be a fire is for something hit just right under the car and hook the line.
Let me know what your thoughts are.
The fuel system I ran for a while consisted of a braided -6AN line from the factory fuel feed on an S2 pump assembly to a return-style rail. I used the stock feed line as a return. I drilled a hole in the top of the fuel hat which dumped return fuel into a Radium jet pump which I used to siphon fuel from the passenger's side of the tank. It's very easy to route that braided line up where the factory fuel tank vent line ran, which keeps it safe and out of the way of any under-car debris.
I defeated the factory fuel pressure regulator and regulated fuel pressure with an Aeromotive 1:1. Obviously once the in-tank FPR is defeated you don't have any more siphon.
This worked, but the annoying part was getting it all in the tank. There just wasn't enough room for everything.
I ended up ditching all of that and putting a second lift pump in the passenger's side of the tank just to pump fuel into the driver's side. The driver's side now feeds a surge tank in the trunk which has the 1:1 regulator built-in. The fuel rail at the engine is now a dead-head system again. This works awesome. The car will maintain full fuel pressure until the fuel tank only has about a quarter gallon left in it. It's been plenty of flow for my ~ 500whp on E85 (not a rotary, but you get the idea). Even with only a gallon left in the tank, with 1.6g lateral I've never experienced fuel starve since going to this setup.
A friend of mine asked me to do a walkaround of the fuel system on my car so I did, it's here:
technically you can locate the siphon externally on the fuel pump discharge line and pipe it out/in the tank through the cover, still kind of a hassle.
there aren’t many aftermarket options though; dual pump hanger from ProMaz in Australia or take your chances on Built2Apex (if they’re even still operating). Neither one is cheap.
that’s why I decided to take the Radium surge setup with integral FPR; dump the tank, and fit the bolt-on top/hanger/integral FPR onto a top plate at the OE tank fitting. You either have to add a siphon or lift pump for the other saddle. I opted for a low pressure lift pump into an OE pump module with it modified to pump over directly to the fuel pump side through the siphon tube. It’s a lot more tolerant for running dry than a standard fuel pump.
Ultimately I’d prefer to set it up to turn on/off by fuel level in that saddle, but that’s a more complicated side project for another day.
03-03-2021, 12:56 PM
