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the second listing is 0.500”/0.375” hardline mounting clamp, most of the clamps out there are the same size on both sides
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Team two questions:
1. I have done both flared tubing and use compression fittings. Mostly compression fittings with copper tubing and brass compression rings. Likewise, I have done brake lines with flares. I guess I saw that there are compression AN fittings, why go down the path of flaring the brake line ends? Also why are you set on stainless steel lines? I see aluminum lines aren't uncommon, and I assume are more friendly to doing compression fittings and work with?
2. Those brackets appear to be just 3D printed plastic? If thats the case feel free to reach out. I can design and print however many you need at whatever sizes for much cheaper. Idk how many sets you were wanting. Can send extras as well.
I’m not using SS, it’s a much easier to bend/form “Cunifer” copper-nickel material which is also extremely corrosion resistant.
You should not use aluminum tubing with E-85. If you don’t understand why then do your proper research. There used to people on here claiming it would take out aluminum intake etc. engine parts. If you want to go Full-JohnnyStormFlameOn chancing an ethanol leak, then be my guest.
the only other 1/2”-3/8” bracket I could find was a billet SS one for $30 each. Again, I already almost lost the other RX8 when a grass fire ruptured the Nylon hose from the fuel pump module and OE hardline. If I didn’t just happen to have a fresh, full-size extinguisher at the time when the ruptured line released it’s pressure and fuel onto the grass fire underneath and lit off (about the same as in the video below), the whole thing would have burned to the ground.
I almost had a heart seizure several months ago when I walked around to the back end and saw a 6 foot diameter puddle of ethanol fuel on the floor behind this one with it idling away inside the storage building. All because the PO installed hoses with regular gasoline lining that the ethanol ate through and ruptured. Do you even comprehend how dangerous that situation was? This dangerous, actually more:
Your fuels system is nothing to be taking chances with, but it’s your chance to take if you so will it. Hopefully you don’t take out somebody else’s property or life in the process.
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I’m not using SS, it’s a much easier to bend/form “Cunifer” copper-nickel material which is also extremely corrosion resistant.
You should not use aluminum tubing with E-85. If you don’t understand why then do your proper research. There used to people on here claiming it would take out aluminum intake etc. engine parts. If you want to go Full-JohnnyStormFlameOn chancing an ethanol leak, then be my guest.
the only other 1/2”-3/8” bracket I could find was a billet SS one for $30 each. Again, I already almost lost the other RX8 when a grass fire ruptured the Nylon hose from the fuel pump module and OE hardline. If I didn’t just happen to have a fresh, full-size extinguisher at the time when the ruptured line released it’s pressure and fuel onto the grass fire underneath and lit off (about the same as in the video below), the whole thing would have burned to the ground.
I almost had a heart seizure several months ago when I walked around to the back end and saw a 6 foot diameter puddle of ethanol fuel on the floor behind this one with it idling away inside the storage building. All because the PO installed hoses with regular gasoline lining that the ethanol ate through and ruptured. Do you even comprehend how dangerous that situation was? This dangerous, actually more:
Your fuels system is nothing to be taking chances with, but it’s your chance to take if you so will it. Hopefully you don’t take out somebody else’s property or life in the process.
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Questions above were questions, that was all.
Cunifer doesn't appear to offer a 5/8" or ~15mm option, where are you looking to source your lines from?
Except that question and the previous one suggests you aren’t reading my posts. Because I already addressed that for my situation just as I had already addressed the aluminum fuel line. So it’s not quite exactly as you just stated and is why I emphasized the prior response. You might be fine with aluminum lines, it’s not quite the same thing as a fuel rail or anodized fittings wrt to thickness or how easily it may corrode enough to burst/leak and I’m not chancing it.
I’m not going to need -10, but if you do then SS hard tube or an SS braided hose are the options imo. Or aluminum if you so choose. Good luck.
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the guy I contacted about welding up the CHRA oil drain pipe has been laying the typical post-Covid response on me. i.e. none … but going to find someone.
I managed to get out today and do a few things for a change. Of which, some minor mocking up of the G30-770. There are just so many smaller things that need reworking that, even if this is all temporary until the new turbo manifold is built, I just can’t ignore and let go. Because I don’t want to be caught out by any more surprises like with the fuel hose situation.
Ordered 12 feet each of 1/2” and 3/8” cunifer tubing, almost had a 2nd thought to use hose instead after seeing the additional $47 shipping fee, but it’s just another drop in the bucket at this point … done right, done once.
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next up on the list, never hang the plastic AI tank from the top two bolts only; hopefully Stroker won’t get too upset with me hanging out the dirty laundry I have plenty of my own too
it’s all par for the course, not the least bit disappointed in the car and there’s a lot of good too. 👍
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finally got around to ordering the fix for this “surprise”
$30 for several ounces of aluminum to support all four corners would have prevented spending an additional $85 for a replacement tank plus the bother of having to mess with it. It shouldn’t happen again …
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but in all fairness; hindsight is always 20/20 vision.
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The new AI tank mounted on a support frame is installed;,solid as a granite foundation now, but going to emphasize that nobody should be turbocharging any rotary engine without a water/alcohol injection system unless it’s a competition car where alcohol injection is not permitted. In that case, straight E85 or high octane race fuel goes a long way to compensate for this and even straight (distilled) water only, which will cost a few hp, is better than nothing at all. A blown engine will hurt a lot more than losing 20 whp. It’s really a no-brainer and this engine likely would have died a half-dozen more deaths without it as per Stroker’s old build thread.
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The -12 oil drain is a tight fit, but necessary since it doesn’t have much downward angle. The existing forward high-mount turbo manifold is not playing well with a compact turbo. Might be a waste of time with the new low-mount manifold progressing ever closer. There could be more to it though once the fitment begins, so just doing it any way.
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a number of other things going on; front bumper cover is off and out with the old intercooler, working on the replacement with a customized end-tank configuration not likely ever seen before. Intention is to mount it further back closer to the radiator with an enclosed duct between them and some additional general shrouding to direct air entering the front bumper opening appropriately.
Also have a Koyo S2 radiator to replace the existing Koyo S1 radiator, which will be paired up to an EWP setup.
Received the cuniform hardline material and have to address the busted flex fuel line issue still. However faced with addressing another pre-existing dilemma. One of the things I strongly disagreed with was the hole cut into the trunk bottom with a surge tank protruding up through the opening. I get that the PO was concerned about fuel leaking into the trunk area, but while fuel may now leak down onto the ground, if there’s a fire back there it will just flare up through the big hole in the trunk. In addition to the hot air, stinky fumes, and road grime/sand that continuously blow into the interior trunk and cabin area while driving down the road with a big opening in the bottom of the trunk. Possibly not as well considered as it could have been, but cheap and easy was the POs motto, and again having dealt with my own not so well planned choices as well; hindsight is 20/20.
So probably looking at a complete overhaul of the fueling system and having a steel panel made and welded in at a body shop to correct this situation. Which is a bit more complicated than it may seem. Because welding any where near a fuel system is touchy at best, but transporting it somewhere else is difficult without a fuel system. Which I also have a set of shocks, springs, and spherical mounts to cobble together and install along with a pair of anti-sway bars some day too. Then the CD009 trans conversion and eventually the replacement engine as well.
Eventually though, as all these frustrating situations are addressed, the sun will rise to shine on the beginning of a new day.
The new AI tank mounted on a support frame is installed;,solid as a granite foundation now, but going to emphasize that nobody should be turbocharging any rotary engine without a water/alcohol injection system unless it’s a competition car where alcohol injection is not permitted. In that case, straight E85 or high octane race fuel goes a long way to compensate for this and even straight (distilled) water only, which will cost a few hp, is better than nothing at all. A blown engine will hurt a lot more than losing 20 whp. It’s really a no-brainer and this engine likely would have died a half-dozen more deaths without it as per Stroker’s old build thread.
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The -12 oil drain is a tight fit, but necessary since it doesn’t have much downward angle. The existing forward high-mount turbo manifold is not playing well with a compact turbo. Might be a waste of time with the new low-mount manifold progressing ever closer. There could be more to it though once the fitment begins, so just doing it any way.
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a number of other things going on; front bumper cover is off and out with the old intercooler, working on the replacement with a customized end-tank configuration not likely ever seen before. Intention is to mount it further back closer to the radiator with an enclosed duct between them and some additional general shrouding to direct air entering the front bumper opening appropriately.
Also have a Koyo S2 radiator to replace the existing Koyo S1 radiator, which will be paired up to an EWP setup.
Received the cuniform hardline material and have to address the busted flex fuel line issue still. However faced with addressing another pre-existing dilemma. One of the things I strongly disagreed with was the hole cut into the trunk bottom with a surge tank protruding up through the opening. I get that the PO was concerned about fuel leaking into the trunk area, but while fuel may now leak down onto the ground, if there’s a fire back there it will just flare up through the big hole in the trunk. In addition to the hot air, stinky fumes, and road grime/sand that continuously blow into the interior trunk and cabin area while driving down the road with a big opening in the bottom of the trunk. Possibly not as well considered as it could have been, but cheap and easy was the POs motto, and again having dealt with my own not so well planned choices as well; hindsight is 20/20.
So probably looking at a complete overhaul of the fueling system and having a steel panel made and welded in at a body shop to correct this situation. Which is a bit more complicated than it may seem. Because welding any where near a fuel system is touchy at best, but transporting it somewhere else is difficult without a fuel system. Which I also have a set of shocks, springs, and spherical mounts to cobble together and install along with a pair of anti-sway bars some day too. Then the CD009 trans conversion and eventually the replacement engine as well.
Eventually though, as all these frustrating situations are addressed, the sun will rise to shine on the beginning of a new day.
Funny note for some reason I kept reading "PO" as "POS" and was thinking that was being a bit rude and out there HA. But obviously I learned to read and realized how stupid I was.
Also the water/Meth mount looks much better. Also suggest some larger washers on the bolt side just to increase surface area on the plastic.
As for the hole in the trunk, would it be worth just doing some rivets/rivet nuts and a sheet of SS with gasket maker be good enough? Any thought of needing quick or easy access in that area of the car without getting underneath it? No idea where the hole is specifically, just a thought to save some frustration.
I just used the AEM hardware and think it’s fine, but nothing wrong with your suggestion. Had considered larger washers though.
There are racing rules limitations that define some choices, even though it’s doubtful this particular chassis will ever compete at the National level. No alcohol is permitted for injection; water only, but on E85 it won’t need to be used. It’s mostly an added safety factor when testing and pushing to the limit, which is the purpose of this build. Same for the trunk floor. It needs to be addressed in a way that doesn’t come off as a performance gain, such as weight loss exceeding 1 pound. I could do it the way you suggested, but would prefer to try and address it a bit more properly instead if possible.
Will take a better pic, but this was from Strokers thread; most of the LH side of the center trunk depression floor was cut out. So what you’re seeing here is a picture looking through the hole to where he added a structure for mounting the pumps and the surge tank that extends up through the hole into the trunk. A second staged pump and hoses were added later. So you can also see the rear subframe, rear swaybar, exhaust pipe, bundle of flex-hose snakes from hell , and his epoxy coated garage floor. It’s not a small opening, I’d guess about 20” x 20” give or take a few.
from a week ago, cut & pasted from MincVinyl’s REW build thread
I removed the turbo manifold off the Strokercharged Banzai REW swap kit
With the Banzai support conversion; the top of the subframe is even with the bottom of the exhaust port insert OD. The OD is approx. 2.5”. So a 2” Sch pipe being 2.375” OD centered to the port and coming straight put would barely clear the top of the subframe.
In the picture below, the red line is the bottom of the straight-edge flush with and coming out from top of subframe, the red circle is the exhaust port insert OD
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As far as EFR8374 fitment goes; it’s going to be tight. The turbo will fit, hard to be 100% sure about the IWG controller, but it should too. I never had any problem with the 3D turbo staying together at home, but as soon as I started putting it down into the chassis it kept coming apart; kind of frustrating. Eventually it held together enough, but I had no way to position and hold it in place except by hand.
There wasn’t any way for me to get a picture that way with my hands tied up. So the picture below is with the 3D turbo assembly centered to the exhaust ports, but with the T4 turbine inlet face up against the engine and sitting a bit downward. Which you can see the room it has to move up and outward into the open space between the subframe and chassis. The engine mount stud and brackets may need to be shaved off like some others did did on his
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The brake line to the front RH caliper is centered to the CHRA. Just wrapping or covering it would likely be sufficient as there’s some decent space between it and the turbine housing. One of the tightest spots is the back corner of the turbine housing and the rear part of the chassis opening. There’s enough clearance with the Xcessive LIM, but there’s not any space to also use the OMP. The other tight spot is the boss casting on the compressor housing where the BOV solenoid mounts. It’d likely require remote mounting the solenoid and grinding the boss off the compressor cover.
The front crossmember over the radiator has been cut off this chassis. It wasn’t any problem to fit the turbo into the low mount position from the front and top between the engine and the chassis without a turbo manifold being in place. Of course the real deal is going to be quite a bit heavier and more difficult hand placing in there that way.
Next Saturday I should have the opportunity to do a fitment check on another forum member’s RX8 with the Nicon conversion setup.
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So the Nicon engine mount situation is looking quite different than my Banzai mount and appears to not accommodate the centered turbo concept. At least the one I was looking at on Saturday. The Nicon mount on it has the engine ~0.81” higher. This isn’t a big deal because the turbo flange angle can address that easy enough. The bigger issue is that the engine on this Nicon mount is sitting about 1.25” further back/rearward in the chassis than on the Banzai mount.
The problem there is the turbine housing coming straight out isn’t going into the opening over the subframe towards the wheel well, but impacting the chassis area just behind the opening. This particular Nicon setup had additional support braces that tie the trasmission ppf mount to the chassis. I’m not sure if they’re contributing to the engine positioning or not, but 1.25” difference is quite a bit. Enough to matter in this case.
On the other hand, the Garrett G30-770 with 1.06 EWG div-T4 with my Banzai mount is going to fit in there. The turbine housing is about the same overall dimensions as the EFR 1.05, but the shape of it is better for fitting within the space
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The -770 compressor is quite a bit smaller than the EFR, but the Garrett -900 compressor is the same size as the -770. The Garrett G35 turbine housing is also the same sizing as the G30. So that means the G30-900 and G35-900 would also fit. With the G35-1050 compressor only being 13mm larger diameter it’s looking like a strong possibility that it may fit too.
Hard to see it well in this photo with the angle and poor lighting, but the compressor has a lot of space around it. The only tight spot is the turbine housing around the subframe and the chassis area at the rear of the opening into the wheel well. The tabs that box in the rear end of the factory motor mount need to be shaved off the top of the subframe there. The turbine housing is sitting on top of the inner tab in the wheel well photo.
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Great photos Mark! Seeing that photo through the wheel well definitly made me think of something, and that is that you are using EWG where mine is IWG. My turbo sits quite a bit higher up (about and inch or 2 roughly just by comparing some photos), and about an inch or two more forward. What this does allow is my IWG actuator to sit on the bottom of the compressor housing just above the subframe forward and "inside" of that threaded stud.
Edit: added photo for reference.
Last edited by RotaryMachineRx; 05-04-2023 at 12:41 PM.
what you can’t see due to the angle of the picture, is how much more space there is between the turbo and the LIM than yours (Jesse) or the Turblowndup manifold. It’s like the difference between Texas and Rhode Island.
going back to the EFR though, the 3D model that MincVinyl loaned me has the 1.05 EWG turbine housing. I’d expect the scroll on the 0.92 IWG housing to be somewhat smaller. So we’re going to do something different on that manifold to get it in the low-mount position and the Nicon engine support. Won’t be straight out like mine, but the goal is equal length runners. Still TBD though.
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Looking to dump the OE Renesis t-stat housing; does anyone have a source for a bolt-on plate to go there instead or a CAD file of the gasket profile to have one made?
I've messaged JDL manufacturing about an adapter that retains the thermostat and uses AN fittings. He still plans to develop something like this but no time frame as of now. I'm hoping it comes about before I'm in need of one.
What's your coolant layout going be? Still using the Electronic pump?
yes, the alternative is to machine off the water pump area from the Renesis cover and use a 13B adapter instead. However, this would also remove the alternator mount. Which I already discussed with you my preference is to relocate the alternator to the AC compressor position for other reasons as well. Either way something needs to be fabricated and the plate is the easier initial solution.
All I’d want is the plate for installing the main inlet and outlet fittings. The peripheral hoses will be addressed separately, as they should be.
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had these 9° pie pieces laser cut from 2.125” OD x 0.063” wall (2” ID) T321 tube on a less than 1D radius (which you can’t get in a mandrel bend) for some custom manifold fabrications
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also have a set coming in 2.125” OD x 18 Ga. 625 Inconel for a future race manifold.
some people might think less than a 1D radius is going to be a problem, but the pipe elbows most everyone use are also less than a 1D bend. The issue with pipe being only two size choices between 1.5” Sch pipe being too small and 2” Sch pipe being oversize and harder to work with when space is limited in a low mount configuration.
1.5” Sch elbow is 1.90” OD x 1.5” radius = 0.79D bend
2.0” Sch elbow is 2.375” OD x 2.0” radius = 0.84D bend
the pipe elbows are less cost if you can get away with them like in a forward or top mount turbo position. If T321 pipe elbows are used then the Sch 5 (0.063”) wall thickness is sufficient due to the greater high temperature strength. T304 pipe elbows need to be Sch 10 (0.11”) wall for that reason.
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02-01-2023, 05:54 AM
… but going to find someone.
I have plenty of my own too 
