Complete R3/S2 drivetrain swap on my S1
 

So i've been doing quite a bit of research on this swap and based on what i've found this swap is quite indeed very possible, now I know what some of you are thinking "Oh, he probably found an S2 engine for a good price and he thinks he can just drop it in and have it work" and in all honesty that's kind of the case, but not really. While some feel lucky finding a 30Ksomething S2 engine with good compression for oh, let's say $1,700? I found myself a complete totaled 09' R3 for that price and not only that but with 18,885 original miles, I know f\/ck me right? But anyway I've done my homework and have purchased the donor/parts car to do this swap and if all goes to sh!t for some reason, hey I still got an S2 tranny and diff out of it and the engine and full suspension setup I can easily resale to make a decent profit and rebuild my S1 engine with it, but I want that 3rd oil injector per rotor which is literally the only actual benefit to this swap, so f\/ck it #R3S1:ylsuper:

*For those interested, check out my partout listing here: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...artout-261182/

*For the nay sayers that will swear up and down that this swap is impossible and a waste of time, here's a basic rundown of what exactly i'm going to do:

1) Nothing from the S1 wiring or drivetrain system will be retained, everything from the R3 wiring system will be swapped over. The only thing that wont be swapped over is the suspension parts/components as I am going with a complete mazdaspeed suspension and chassis bracing setup instead (just preference, I know there's much better parts, I just want an OEM setup is all)

2) "The S1 ECU can't work with the S2 MOP" No Sh!t, why wouldn't I use the S2 ECU with an S2 MOP?

3) "You're going to have to literally rewire the entire car, are you sure you actually thought this through?" Yes and it will be a pain in the balls I know

4) "Did you even check if the engine is good at all" Yep sure did and it passed the Comp. test with flying colors (180RPM at 4,314 FAS - battery only had enough charge to crank at 180, see pics for comp. results and normalized numbers via foxed.ca)
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Umm... Ok then. Good chat... :rolleyes:

I look forward to hearing how you get on.

For what it's worth, I think your plan is feasible albeit a lot of work, as you clearly realise, and isn't most people's idea of time well spent (much better to break your donor car for parts then buy an R3?). However, I can see how somebody seeing it as an interesting exercise would enjoy it and not care too much that what they produce isn't worth much to anyone else, particularly as that applies in varying degrees to everyone here doing an engine swap.

Now, if only I can find someone selling a totalled R3 with a good engine & all the bits for $1,700 . . . . .

Honestly It was either pay $1,100USD for an Atkins master rebuild kit and rebuild my S1 engine and just have a regular but running S1 or buy the R3 and upgrade the entire drivetrain with 70,000ish less miles for $600 more and while rebuilding my s1 engine may have been the easiest/simplest thing to do, the R3 swap will prove much more beneficial overall for very obvious reasons, but the main thing that attracts me to this swap is the slight bump in reliability/engine longevity from the extra oil injector and of course the low original mileage. and I also agree that most people wont find this swap favorable on either side of the fence whether it's just too much work and costly (as no one find this type of unicorn of a deal like I did) or because it's essentially swapping in the same engine with the same power/torque output or both. I'm honestly fine with the renesis as is and would much rather focus more on handling performance and tuning than increasing HP and TQ. which is last on my sh!t to do list.

Update
 

So as I planned, the partout for the R3 has just about paid itself off which is awesome, I wasn't expecting it to go so well. Also Diff and tranny have been dropped and will be pulling the engine very soon (or dropping the subframe w/engine) and then I can continue with pulling the wiring and other components. After that I can start on the S1 and my goal is to at the very least be 90% done by the end of february during which i'll be vlogging my progress and posting updates on the swap to my youtube channel as well as on here.

*Pictured is the S2 tranny, S2 diff, S2 starter and RacingBeat catback I recently picked up which will be a nice touch as well

*Also pictured is the under dash wiring that'll be oh so much fun to remove

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...artout-261182/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfP...3WqBz-dKjYitSQ

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Watch that the wiring harness and electrical boxes don't get wet....and be careful trying to remove the wiring when it is really cold. All you need is wire breaks or shorts to try and diagnose after you have it all back together

Good luck...it will be a lot of work...but should work out in the end

We have had an R3 parts car for a while that has 9000 original miles on it. It was a flood car that ran fine after the flood and then all of the sudden stopped running and never ran again despite a few trips to the dealer (ECU and module replacements and programming) and a thorough going over by a guy with specific training on vehicle electronics. The idea of getting it running was ditched and most of the parts are on other RX-8s in our group.

You will need to swap over the dash and such as well as all the security modules and sensors.

I don't see the point but good luck.

Why is this in here?
This section is for taking the renesis out.
Not for pulling a renesis and putting another renesis in :dunno:

Maybe a mod can put it in the correct section??

.

It's a rotary swap.

Meh

We all know this section is for shit canning the renesis for different rotary... #norenesis :smoker:
That's what this section is about. :yesnod:

carry on.

The car is covered with a tarp to keep snow and rain off of everything, i'll be sure to be careful with it though, hopefully I don't run into any electrical issues though, that would really suck

I'll be reusing the S1 dash panel, I know the S2 panel would be ideal, but so far all I can see that's really different is the head unit shape and the mounting points for the A/C controls so to work around that i'll be using an S1 metra kit face plate with an S2 metra wiring kit for a double din radio and I was able to modify the A/C controls to fit perfectly onto the faceplate which required breaking off the mounting points and will have to JB weld into place. Again I know it's not ideal, but it's a work around.

Other than that the dash panels themselves look to be similar enough to not run into any issues reinstalling after rewiring the S2 harness. The wiring under the dash looks to be overall in good shape, but of course i'll know for sure later on.

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I'm pretty sure what 9k was saying is that the s1 dash circuitry isn't compatible with the s2 ECU and related components. If you want a working dash you will need to use the one from the s2.

S2 dash
 

Oh ok, I was referring to just the dash cover which has no wiring, but yes of course I would need to use S2 wiring

You should have done your homework. The can bus setup is different (protocol and what not) on the S2, you will need a S2 cluster, head unit, etc., etc. Unless of course you are okay with a bunch of stuff not working right.

I have the S2 cluster and the S2 head unit. I really can't see the issue of using the S2 dash cover as the cluster has the same dimensions as the S1 and if there are any mounting issues then i'm sure I can figure something out and as for the head unit is it not possible to use an aftermarket radio such as and android based double din unit in an S2? I mean Yes I have the head unit, but the faceplate is both misshaped for the S1 dash and also has a bit of damage as well which is why I don't want to try and use it. From what I can find others have had no issues installing after market radios into their S2s, so i'm interested in your reason as to why it can't work in my case as well, I mean if I was trying to retain S1 wiring of any kind I could see an issue there, but that's not what i'm doing at all.

*Reference link for after market headunit in S2: https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-in...sh-kit-189591/

Wow. Cool project you got there. Why not just use the S2 dash? The S2 gauges are pretty sexy.

All the best for you man. I genuinely hope things work out smoothly. Can't wait to see the final outcome.

I am using the S2 gauge cluster, just not the S2 dash cover. I have the S2 dash cover, but alot of the misc pieces from it are either missing or broken so i'm using the S1 dash cover panel instead. But thanks, I hope so too

It will be interesting to see how you get the center stack LCD panel, TPMS, and HVAC controls working.

HVAC controls, LCD and TPMS
 

Well I don't a reason they wouldn't work with the S2 wiring, I'd be surprised if there was any issue at all really

Well, prepare to be surprised. And don't think I am pissing in your corn flakes, I am just trying to help you understand how complicated what you are trying to accomplish is. This a very complex thing you are doing with many modules that have to speak and be programmed to work together properly in order for the engine to function properly.

I know that, what I don't get is where the issue of using an S1 dash cover with the S2 wiring an components if everything mounts to it just fine (with or without minor modification). From everything you've said it really just seems like you think i'm trying to somehow magically retain S1 wiring and/or components without issues.

I understand that i'll have to have the car towed to mazda once everything is finished on my end to be reprogrammed as far as the IDS system goes, but as for using the S1 dash cover (keyword being cover) I can't see the issue

There was a guy on here with an S2 gauge pod in his S1. The backlighting flickered and the fuel gauge didn't work. The lights issue you should be able to solve with the S2 wires. But I remember reading that the fuel gauge didn't work because the fuel level sensor was different in the S2, or something like that. The fuel tank itself is bigger too. The thread is in here somewhere.

I have swapped an S2 cluster and cover into an S1. It's an easy direct swap, so their dimensions and plugs are identical and there is nothing in the cluster requiring programming to the car's systems.

I just read the post above again. I had no problems with flickering lights and the fuel gauge worked as expected.

I remember reading the thread on the S2 cluster a while back too, I wasn't really worried about it at all, but wasn't sure if the tabs/mounting points were all the same or not. As for the wiring i'll be pulling it out after I remove the engine which I should be doing as soon as the snow melts again which has been on and off for a few weeks now and I don't just mean light snow, I mean roads dry as a bone to 6"-8" within a few hours of beginning to snow, so that kind of sucks.

So you experienced no flickering? Did the fuel gauge work?

I had no flickering and the fuel gauge worked OK. Of course, that doesn't mean others won't have problems if, for example, there are overlaps in the various tolerances.

I would be surprised if the fuel gauges didn't work. The S1 and S2 circuits look similar and the operating principles are the same. I was ready for some differences in value but didn't notice them. I normally refuelled when I got just below 1/4 tank, as I do with all my cars, so didn't see how accurate the gauge was at low fuel levels.

The fuel gauge doesn't work when you use a S2 cluster in a S1. Well it works, it is just not accurate.

R3 engine's out finally
 

Finally got an engine hoist and pulled the R3 engine out, the adjustable engine leveler thing really made everything much easier than when I pulled my S1 engine. Now all that's left is to pull the wiring, drop the subframe and pull the HVAC system incase I need it (as i'm not sure of any difference in the S1 and S2 HVAC systems other than A/C controls)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6d6515afe0.png

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Wiring
 

Engine bay and interior harnesses are out now:)

Just a few more parts to pull and the R3 should be ready to scrap by next week

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Update
 

Front end on the R3 is now about 98% picked clean:D Now just need to remove the fuel pump and fuel level sensor and she'll be ready to scrap (should have a fuel pump removal tool on tuesday, so the S1 teardown will begin sometime next week after the R3 shell is gone which I would've started already, but the lack of work space kind of sucks as you can probably tell from the last pic lol
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Awesome! Can't wait to see the car up and running!

New stuff
 

Not really an update on the swap itself, but came across these for literally a steal price. Put a nice dent in my pocket, but my S1 engine part out should cover most of the cost. I always wanted R3 front seats anyway, but I could never find them, so I guess these Spirit R front and rears will have to do:) (Poor me I know, but i'll live)

New Koyo Radiator and Mishimoto Thermostat came in as well, maybe now my car will be cool lol
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Now that is a rare interior. Not sure about how I feel about it in a VR RX-8 though.

Did the airbag pop on the driver side seat? Or is that just JDM wear and tear?

I'll post pics taken with my phone when they get here. They need some work, but $1,000 shipped I think was more than fair for them considering what they are and all.

*BTW I bought them off ebay and they should be here by the 24th:)

I'm guessing so, it looks like just the stitching is torn so should be an easy fix there


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...f1412b69da.jpg

Holy cow! Those are some sick seats man! The Spirit R Recaros are ultra rare. Congrats! :us4allswi
Are they getting shipped from Japan?

No they're shipping from Sacramento, how they ended up there I've no clue, but they were there and popped up on eBay one day, so I snagged them:D

The R3 is finally done being stripped and parted out, just getting it ready to be picked up and scrapped so it can finally go and do dead car stuff and I can stop bullshitting and get on with the swap:)


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d70a8ba8c.jpeg


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Update and new stuff
 

Sorry i've been a bit sluggish with the progress of my build, things are going much slower than anticipated as i've had 3 drills within 30 days and am getting ready to deploy to Germany next month as well and working nights at my civilian job doesn't exactly help at all either lol, but here are a few progress updates and some new stuff i've acquired since my last post:

- Removed the old POS engine I bought because it was running in the car it was pulled from (housings are done, rotor bearings are fucked but not spun at least, intermediate iron needs to be lapped on one side - $1,500 well spent right? lol)

- More genuine mazdaspeed parts acquired: Front bumper, rear diffuser, SS brake lines, SS clutch hose and RAMS-8M-K01 coilovers (coilovers will arrive tomorrow:D - version one shocks w/new FCM bumpstops and new eibach pro springs already sold)

- Replaced all stock R3 brake rotors with my drilled/slotted rotors except for one as I need to replace one busted rear stud

- Figured out that S1 and S2 oil cooler banjo bolts are the same which means I can order modified ones for my oil temp./pressure sensors so I can still use the gauges on my center dash pod much easier:D

- Found another freeloader in one of my brakes

- Finally acquired a BHR bracket for my ignition coils which look far better than the one they came with:)

- Installed my Spirit R recaros (not yet repaired/restored) as I just didn't want them laying around. The door panels definitely need to be replaced because the two reds just look terrible together, but i'll deal with that later

- Planning to have a friend help me tomorrow to swap out the front subframe for the R3 one and dropping the rear subframe finally so I can take both to have the good bracket from the S1 subframe welded onto the R3 subframe to replace the busted bracket

*Overall not much progress has been made at all, but it's getting there slowly but surely. I think I might do the interior wiring after the drivetrain is in the car and back on the ground and that way i'll be able to push the car out and have more room to do stuff like removing the doors and not fucking them up (there really isn't any room on the driver's side at all for that in my garage - last pic is how the car is sitting now lol)

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Very cool build! I remember seeing those spirit R seats for sale a while back and am glad they are being put to good use! I was lucky enough to pick up some R3 seats a while back for a steal..... But I've digressed. I have had not one, but two pairs of mazdaspeed shocks break in under a year. Both purchased new from mazda dealers and both broke at the base of the passenger side piston. Im not sure why this happens but the eibach coilovers that mazdaspeed based their set up on suffered from the same problem and eibach has sense upgraded the rear piston width form .500" to .625", so maybe its just a fundamentaly flawed design. I would really consider getting rid of those mazdaspeed coilovers ASAP as they are not a very sound product.

Mannnn.. Where are you finding all of these parts!! Mazdaspeed stuff, Recaros, etc. You're finding all the good stuff. Keep it up man!

My favorite explaination of how I find stuff said by someone was "He literally fucking trips over them" which I can't really argue with because I kind of do lol

Thanks for the input, but these coilovers aren't going anywhere, they're a botch to come by and your comment is literally the only negative thing I've heard about them, everyone else that I know of that has them say they're awesome and well worth the money considering how much the eibach branded versions are new

Ive seen a few people bring this up on the forums. Totally respect your choice just be careful ;) On a related note I have one mazdaspeed rear coilover in good shape so if yours goes out I'm happy to let it go for a reasonable price. In terms of performance I would agree, they are pretty awesome and well worth the money. Spring rate is slightly soft but for a street car they are on point. Also make sure to tape up the adjuster on the rear as per the directions. On my original set I skipped that step and I had a hell of a time cleaning up that little wheel.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...2194097f58.png

More update stuffz
 

So today i'd say was fairly productive. The R3 is finally gone and out of my driveway now off doing dead car stuffz which I had posted on one of the local rotary FB pages that I needed it picked up and that it's free to whoever is willing to pick it up (yes I know it's worth something in scrap metal, but I really didn't care, just wanted it gone) and that's exactly what happened. I did do a final inspection on the R3 to make sure I didn't miss anything and picked the last few bits I could find which all that was left was the fuel tank (Pump, level sensors and internal fuel line were pulled too, so the tank itself was all that I didn't pull). I also finally dropped the front subframe as well which i'll be selling to a friend close by that recently got into an accident and the driver's side of his subframe got fucked bad, so that's going for $100 (maybe worth more, but I don't really care, just more money back in my pocket). I also started stripping down my OEM mazdaspeed front bumper as well (The pic shows a half stripped bumper because I ran out of sand paper pads lol) and I also finally receive my brand new OEM mazdaspeed SS braided clutch line which, from what Japanparts said, shipped directly from mazda HQ in Japan (because they still stock them there which makes sense anyway seeing as the MS8 was actually sold there I guess). The pic shows two because the new one was ordered and then also won the bid for the used one, but they ended up both being about the same price shipped except one got here in 4 days from Osaka, Japan (used) and the other took about a month from Mazda HQ in japan through Japanparts.

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crazy, this is what i have to do from time to time, right now my victim is an 08 bmw M5.. after replacing 16 rusted moduals.. it will now drive around the block, on half the v10. the other half its working yet..
:shocking:


op'-you know you coulda just rebuild the s1 with s2 housings for that third oil port.. then make the s2 omp work... sees that option is less work...

Yes, but I would still have to rewire the entire car to accommodate the electronics in the car for everything to work properly without any CEL. Plus what would tearing down an essentially new S2 engine accomplish if all i'm doing is using the housings from it? My goal here is to essentially turn the S1 into a fully functional S2 that will be daily driven

Did some more stuff
 

So yesterday I stripped the engine bay on the S1 and today after I got home from work I installed the S2 engine bay harness as well as the subframe. I just need to do a few more things and the engine and transmission should be ready to drop in which i'll do after my racingbeat flywheel comes in:)

*Also was able to feed the wires for my gauges through the driver's side fender as well as the wires for my side mirror turn signals

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