Complete R3/S2 drivetrain swap on my S1 - RX8Club.com

Go Back  RX8Club.com > Engine Swap Forum > Rotary Swaps
Reload this Page >

Complete R3/S2 drivetrain swap on my S1

Notices

Complete R3/S2 drivetrain swap on my S1

Reply

 
 
 
Old 01-09-2016, 05:39 AM
  #1  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Complete R3/S2 drivetrain swap on my S1

So i've been doing quite a bit of research on this swap and based on what i've found this swap is quite indeed very possible, now I know what some of you are thinking "Oh, he probably found an S2 engine for a good price and he thinks he can just drop it in and have it work" and in all honesty that's kind of the case, but not really. While some feel lucky finding a 30Ksomething S2 engine with good compression for oh, let's say $1,700? I found myself a complete totaled 09' R3 for that price and not only that but with 18,885 original miles, I know f\/ck me right? But anyway I've done my homework and have purchased the donor/parts car to do this swap and if all goes to **** for some reason, hey I still got an S2 tranny and diff out of it and the engine and full suspension setup I can easily resale to make a decent profit and rebuild my S1 engine with it, but I want that 3rd oil injector per rotor which is literally the only actual benefit to this swap, so f\/ck it #R3S1

*For those interested, check out my partout listing here: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...artout-261182/

*For the nay sayers that will swear up and down that this swap is impossible and a waste of time, here's a basic rundown of what exactly i'm going to do:

1) Nothing from the S1 wiring or drivetrain system will be retained, everything from the R3 wiring system will be swapped over. The only thing that wont be swapped over is the suspension parts/components as I am going with a complete mazdaspeed suspension and chassis bracing setup instead (just preference, I know there's much better parts, I just want an OEM setup is all)

2) "The S1 ECU can't work with the S2 MOP" No ****, why wouldn't I use the S2 ECU with an S2 MOP?

3) "You're going to have to literally rewire the entire car, are you sure you actually thought this through?" Yes and it will be a pain in the ***** I know

4) "Did you even check if the engine is good at all" Yep sure did and it passed the Comp. test with flying colors (180RPM at 4,314 FAS - battery only had enough charge to crank at 180, see pics for comp. results and normalized numbers via foxed.ca)







Last edited by @italia916; 09-24-2016 at 08:04 AM.
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 11:12 AM
  #2  
Time for boost...
iTrader: (24)
 
RX8Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Umm... Ok then. Good chat...
RX8Soldier is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2016, 07:50 AM
  #3  
Registered
 
Ian_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On some other planet or Surrey, UK
Posts: 284
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I look forward to hearing how you get on.

For what it's worth, I think your plan is feasible albeit a lot of work, as you clearly realise, and isn't most people's idea of time well spent (much better to break your donor car for parts then buy an R3?). However, I can see how somebody seeing it as an interesting exercise would enjoy it and not care too much that what they produce isn't worth much to anyone else, particularly as that applies in varying degrees to everyone here doing an engine swap.

Now, if only I can find someone selling a totalled R3 with a good engine & all the bits for $1,700 . . . . .
Ian_D is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 12:09 PM
  #4  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Ian_D View Post
I look forward to hearing how you get on.

For what it's worth, I think your plan is feasible albeit a lot of work, as you clearly realise, and isn't most people's idea of time well spent (much better to break your donor car for parts then buy an R3?). However, I can see how somebody seeing it as an interesting exercise would enjoy it and not care too much that what they produce isn't worth much to anyone else, particularly as that applies in varying degrees to everyone here doing an engine swap.

Now, if only I can find someone selling a totalled R3 with a good engine & all the bits for $1,700 . . . . .

Honestly It was either pay $1,100USD for an Atkins master rebuild kit and rebuild my S1 engine and just have a regular but running S1 or buy the R3 and upgrade the entire drivetrain with 70,000ish less miles for $600 more and while rebuilding my s1 engine may have been the easiest/simplest thing to do, the R3 swap will prove much more beneficial overall for very obvious reasons, but the main thing that attracts me to this swap is the slight bump in reliability/engine longevity from the extra oil injector and of course the low original mileage. and I also agree that most people wont find this swap favorable on either side of the fence whether it's just too much work and costly (as no one find this type of unicorn of a deal like I did) or because it's essentially swapping in the same engine with the same power/torque output or both. I'm honestly fine with the renesis as is and would much rather focus more on handling performance and tuning than increasing HP and TQ. which is last on my **** to do list.
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 12:27 AM
  #5  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Update

So as I planned, the partout for the R3 has just about paid itself off which is awesome, I wasn't expecting it to go so well. Also Diff and tranny have been dropped and will be pulling the engine very soon (or dropping the subframe w/engine) and then I can continue with pulling the wiring and other components. After that I can start on the S1 and my goal is to at the very least be 90% done by the end of february during which i'll be vlogging my progress and posting updates on the swap to my youtube channel as well as on here.

*Pictured is the S2 tranny, S2 diff, S2 starter and RacingBeat catback I recently picked up which will be a nice touch as well

*Also pictured is the under dash wiring that'll be oh so much fun to remove

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...artout-261182/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfP...3WqBz-dKjYitSQ




Last edited by @italia916; 09-24-2016 at 08:06 AM.
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 05:41 PM
  #6  
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
 
dannobre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Smallville
Posts: 12,573
Thanked 69 Times in 66 Posts
Watch that the wiring harness and electrical boxes don't get wet....and be careful trying to remove the wiring when it is really cold. All you need is wire breaks or shorts to try and diagnose after you have it all back together

Good luck...it will be a lot of work...but should work out in the end
dannobre is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 05:50 PM
  #7  
Registered
iTrader: (45)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,731
Thanked 323 Times in 264 Posts
We have had an R3 parts car for a while that has 9000 original miles on it. It was a flood car that ran fine after the flood and then all of the sudden stopped running and never ran again despite a few trips to the dealer (ECU and module replacements and programming) and a thorough going over by a guy with specific training on vehicle electronics. The idea of getting it running was ditched and most of the parts are on other RX-8s in our group.

You will need to swap over the dash and such as well as all the security modules and sensors.

I don't see the point but good luck.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 06:32 PM
  #8  
Renesis out... REW in
iTrader: (3)
 
firecran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Posts: 1,526
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Question

Why is this in here?
This section is for taking the renesis out.
Not for pulling a renesis and putting another renesis in

Maybe a mod can put it in the correct section??

.
firecran is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 06:54 PM
  #9  
Registered
iTrader: (45)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,731
Thanked 323 Times in 264 Posts
It's a rotary swap.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 09:23 PM
  #10  
Renesis out... REW in
iTrader: (3)
 
firecran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Posts: 1,526
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Exclamation

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
It's a rotary swap.
Meh

We all know this section is for **** canning the renesis for different rotary... #norenesis
That's what this section is about.

carry on.
firecran is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 01:14 AM
  #11  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by dannobre View Post
Watch that the wiring harness and electrical boxes don't get wet....and be careful trying to remove the wiring when it is really cold. All you need is wire breaks or shorts to try and diagnose after you have it all back together

Good luck...it will be a lot of work...but should work out in the end
The car is covered with a tarp to keep snow and rain off of everything, i'll be sure to be careful with it though, hopefully I don't run into any electrical issues though, that would really suck
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 01:25 AM
  #12  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
We have had an R3 parts car for a while that has 9000 original miles on it. It was a flood car that ran fine after the flood and then all of the sudden stopped running and never ran again despite a few trips to the dealer (ECU and module replacements and programming) and a thorough going over by a guy with specific training on vehicle electronics. The idea of getting it running was ditched and most of the parts are on other RX-8s in our group.

You will need to swap over the dash and such as well as all the security modules and sensors.

I don't see the point but good luck.
I'll be reusing the S1 dash panel, I know the S2 panel would be ideal, but so far all I can see that's really different is the head unit shape and the mounting points for the A/C controls so to work around that i'll be using an S1 metra kit face plate with an S2 metra wiring kit for a double din radio and I was able to modify the A/C controls to fit perfectly onto the faceplate which required breaking off the mounting points and will have to JB weld into place. Again I know it's not ideal, but it's a work around.

Other than that the dash panels themselves look to be similar enough to not run into any issues reinstalling after rewiring the S2 harness. The wiring under the dash looks to be overall in good shape, but of course i'll know for sure later on.




Last edited by @italia916; 09-24-2016 at 08:08 AM.
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 06:45 AM
  #13  
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Salem, CT
Posts: 423
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I'm pretty sure what 9k was saying is that the s1 dash circuitry isn't compatible with the s2 ECU and related components. If you want a working dash you will need to use the one from the s2.
Love_Hounds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 09:23 PM
  #14  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
S2 dash

Oh ok, I was referring to just the dash cover which has no wiring, but yes of course I would need to use S2 wiring
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 01:28 AM
  #15  
Registered
iTrader: (45)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,731
Thanked 323 Times in 264 Posts
You should have done your homework. The can bus setup is different (protocol and what not) on the S2, you will need a S2 cluster, head unit, etc., etc. Unless of course you are okay with a bunch of stuff not working right.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 05:49 AM
  #16  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
You should have done your homework. The can bus setup is different (protocol and what not) on the S2, you will need a S2 cluster, head unit, etc., etc. Unless of course you are okay with a bunch of stuff not working right.

I have the S2 cluster and the S2 head unit. I really can't see the issue of using the S2 dash cover as the cluster has the same dimensions as the S1 and if there are any mounting issues then i'm sure I can figure something out and as for the head unit is it not possible to use an aftermarket radio such as and android based double din unit in an S2? I mean Yes I have the head unit, but the faceplate is both misshaped for the S1 dash and also has a bit of damage as well which is why I don't want to try and use it. From what I can find others have had no issues installing after market radios into their S2s, so i'm interested in your reason as to why it can't work in my case as well, I mean if I was trying to retain S1 wiring of any kind I could see an issue there, but that's not what i'm doing at all.

*Reference link for after market headunit in S2: https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-in...sh-kit-189591/
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 05:55 AM
  #17  
Sicker than your average
 
Nisaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Posts: 991
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Wow. Cool project you got there. Why not just use the S2 dash? The S2 gauges are pretty sexy.

All the best for you man. I genuinely hope things work out smoothly. Can't wait to see the final outcome.
Nisaja is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 06:24 AM
  #18  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Nisaja View Post
Wow. Cool project you got there. Why not just use the S2 dash? The S2 gauges are pretty sexy.

All the best for you man. I genuinely hope things work out smoothly. Can't wait to see the final outcome.

I am using the S2 gauge cluster, just not the S2 dash cover. I have the S2 dash cover, but alot of the misc pieces from it are either missing or broken so i'm using the S1 dash cover panel instead. But thanks, I hope so too
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 12:10 PM
  #19  
Registered
iTrader: (45)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,731
Thanked 323 Times in 264 Posts
It will be interesting to see how you get the center stack LCD panel, TPMS, and HVAC controls working.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 06:33 PM
  #20  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
HVAC controls, LCD and TPMS

Well I don't a reason they wouldn't work with the S2 wiring, I'd be surprised if there was any issue at all really
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 10:32 PM
  #21  
Registered
iTrader: (45)
 
9krpmrx8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 33,731
Thanked 323 Times in 264 Posts
Well, prepare to be surprised. And don't think I am pissing in your corn flakes, I am just trying to help you understand how complicated what you are trying to accomplish is. This a very complex thing you are doing with many modules that have to speak and be programmed to work together properly in order for the engine to function properly.
9krpmrx8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 11:32 PM
  #22  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
I know that, what I don't get is where the issue of using an S1 dash cover with the S2 wiring an components if everything mounts to it just fine (with or without minor modification). From everything you've said it really just seems like you think i'm trying to somehow magically retain S1 wiring and/or components without issues.

I understand that i'll have to have the car towed to mazda once everything is finished on my end to be reprogrammed as far as the IDS system goes, but as for using the S1 dash cover (keyword being cover) I can't see the issue
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 04:00 AM
  #23  
Sicker than your average
 
Nisaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Posts: 991
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
There was a guy on here with an S2 gauge pod in his S1. The backlighting flickered and the fuel gauge didn't work. The lights issue you should be able to solve with the S2 wires. But I remember reading that the fuel gauge didn't work because the fuel level sensor was different in the S2, or something like that. The fuel tank itself is bigger too. The thread is in here somewhere.
Nisaja is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 04:48 AM
  #24  
Registered
 
Ian_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On some other planet or Surrey, UK
Posts: 284
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have swapped an S2 cluster and cover into an S1. It's an easy direct swap, so their dimensions and plugs are identical and there is nothing in the cluster requiring programming to the car's systems.

I just read the post above again. I had no problems with flickering lights and the fuel gauge worked as expected.

Last edited by Ian_D; 01-31-2016 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Read thread again
Ian_D is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 09:49 PM
  #25  
Registered
Thread Starter
 
@italia916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Point, UT
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
I remember reading the thread on the S2 cluster a while back too, I wasn't really worried about it at all, but wasn't sure if the tabs/mounting points were all the same or not. As for the wiring i'll be pulling it out after I remove the engine which I should be doing as soon as the snow melts again which has been on and off for a few weeks now and I don't just mean light snow, I mean roads dry as a bone to 6"-8" within a few hours of beginning to snow, so that kind of sucks.
@italia916 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.