Onagics

Hey ladies and gentlemen on RX8club,

I am in the lasts moments of being in the market for a new car. I've done my homework on several options and have researched the advantages and faults of the cars I've considered.

The RX-8 has an appealing nature in its versatility (which I'm sure is a dead, beaten horse here). I like the uniqueness of its engine, but that powerplant is a double edged sword.

It exceeded the car's appeal until I decided to further research its history of issues and found that the majority of consumers who commented on their ownership of the car were satisfied.

Additionally, those who complained of issues and regretting the car didn't seem to make the distinction between the margin for error (maintenance laziness) in piston reciprocating engines and the rotaries. (Comments like "wah, the dipstick's to low in the engine").

I'm willing to be diligent with this car if I have to (its what I like to do anyways). My concerns is the level of reliability even in the face of good consumer responsibility.

I know the engine consumes oil about twice as fast as its piston equivalent, so a spare quart of oil is highly suggested: what oil should I use? (I've heard there's different oils used in different markets, which may contributed to the high margin of component failiure in our market).

I don't plan on activity which could void the factory warranty (especially since it has now been extended to 100K/8 years), but are aftermarket gauges advisable to keep a better observant eye on the drivetrain's fluid levels?

I notice the RX-8 has an oil guage in the stock cluster, is that sufficient? (Does the dip stick have marked levels of safe operation, I've seen many which don't.)

I've found two or three examples in my area within my budget (mostly '04 and '05 cars) and I've noticed many recalls for those years of production. Does anyone know which VIN# indicate which cars to avoid for those issues (like the lead plug, coil pack, alternator/battery combo, and motor mount issues). I can just run the VIN# against Carfax and Mazda if I must (how much would that cost?)

Additionally, I live in a consistently warm climate, how reactionary to the weather is the 'Renesis'? I've heard the vehicle may have sputtering, stop-and-go traffic, and starting issues when the weather gets aggressive.

I've been looking at vehicles between 30,000 and 50,000 miles (roughly), figuring if something was going to break, it either won't, has, and has already been replaced.

Again, I am a serious shopper, and if the upkeep isn't horridly more encompasing than a traditional reciprocating engine (I could handle pouring my own bottle of oil into a hole occasionally), you'll see me on here again with one of my own between tomorrow and within this week.

-thank you for any input anyone takes the time to submit.

Mazurfer

1.) I would stay away from the 04's if possible. This is not mandatory, but is my opinion.

2.) Oil....OMG.....manual says 5w20, that's okay, but there is a trend to running heavier. I'm in Florida with an 05 and I run 5w30 in Winter and may go to 10w30 this Summer, but not really required.

3.) As stated, I have an 05 and have not had a single lick of trouble since I bought it new in 12/05.

4.) Dipstick has marks. All you really have to do is check it about every two fill-ups of gas. I end up checking mine about every weekend, but that's just because I have made a habit of it. There is an alternate dipstick available for those that just can't seem to handle our dipstick.

5.) Get a manual or you will be sorry.

6.) Oil gauge is a dummy gauge...........pretty much says "Yes, there is oil"....that's about it.

7.) Don't really have to have any extra gauges, but I do. I do like to monitor certain things, but not required.

8.) No matter what.....get an owners manual for it and read it. Don't pay for this manual as it's free online at www.mazdausa.com in the owners section after registering.

9.) Carfax doesn't tell you everything, but still worth buying the 5 or 10 car option. Somtimes if people on here have afew left and you give then the VIN, they might do it for free and send it to you.




I'll re-read your post and see if any else comes to mind.

Onagics

Thanks Mazurfer,

I'll probably want to get an oil pressure gauge or something to that effect, right? While I'm at it, I might as well get a more comprehensive temperature gauge - since I heard these rotaries will go boom much quicker than piston engines if overheated. Anyone think a voltage gauge is advisable for the tricky battery/alternator combo issue?

That would address the (arguably) three most occuring issues with early RX-8's due to lack of owner diligence.

I know one or two manufacturers which make gauge clusters for this car.

Are the '04s a really risky buy? Because I can get a whole lot of car for an 04 in my budget. Of course, I wouldn't want that to be a whole lot of broken car.

fstfwd

I bought a 04 GT in November 2008 with 48k miles. Has everything but navigation and a kitchen sink. Carfax was clean before I purchased it, unlike some others than had been in accidents and repaired, or flooding (think Hurricane Katrina). She's run great until Thursday, at which point I had to get coils, plug wires and plugs replaced to the tune of $820 at dealer service dept (including towing fee). Service dept said this is an unpredictable expense, and he's seen it on cars with 10k miles, 100k miles, or never.

While 04 is most likely to have issues since it is the first production year of the RX8, I think a good portion of complaints of the 04 has to do with people who don't know what they're getting into when they buy it. This is what we in the electronics industry refer to as a ID10T error or an ESO problem (equipment superior to operator). That's not always the case I'm sure, but I'm generalizing. Sounds like you've done a bit of homework on it already, so I don't see that as a problem in your case.

Dipstick has a "full" and "low" marking on mine. I tend to need oil at about 6-8 week intervals, though I check it every other fillup. I use 5w-20 oil and 93 octane fuel without additives, per Mazda recommendation. 16-18 mpg. Other people obviously have their own experience/opinions in that regard. As stated before me, gauges are dummy gauges like most cars have but if you want something more detailed you'll probably wind up going aftermarket.

In regards to the 8yr/100k warranty, keep in mind that is limited to the internal workings of the rotary and does not cover any other components. As long as you know what you're getting into (a little more TLC than piston engines) and do your carfax on the specific car you're looking at, you should be fine. This car is a blast to drive.

Mazurfer

Here is what I did for a gauge because for now....I wanted more than my scangauge II(which is a very good product....... www.scangauge.com ) I just wanted something a little nicer but still allowed me to check and clear codes.
See this thread......it's not too long.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-interior-audio-electronics-24/vent-pod-gauge-installed-163434/


04's are okay....there is just more risk in my opinion.

risky business

i noticed your in florida, im in ponte vedra/ jax beach. would be happy to give you a ride if you want

Onagics

I'm going to be going to Tampa to check out two cars tomorrow:

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dd...=&cardist=5690

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...34586946846&mo del=RX8&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFi rstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keyword sfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified= &body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&dis tance=300&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&show ZipError=n&make=MAZDA&keywords_display=&color=&pag e_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=& drive=&default_sort=priceASC&seller_type=b&max_mil eage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=3281 7&advanced=y&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=Man ual&max_price=&cardist=82&standard=false

The first one from Bay Gulf Imports looks super clean with that interior. Both dealer's seem better than the typical shady stuff I encounter around my area. Talk's cheap though.

They're both +50,000 cars. Hopefully, I can infer that the original owners may have tended to their issues with the service department before me.

I'm planning to put both through a serious test drive: stop and go traffic, idleling for a while, quick blasts up on-ramps, prolonged high way engine speeds. A good 30-40 minute test drive. At least long enough for check engine lights or the like to come on if they already have them. I have an OBDII Scanner too anyways. ALl that's only worth so much, both cars may have been well behaved to their past owners and then will **** on my cosmic shoes there after.

thanks for the input, you've all been thorough and helpful.

risky business

also, carfax it. call the mazda dealer and have them run the vin (for free) to see if the cars had all their recalls taken care of and if they need a new reflash.

always a better idea to go with the car with less owners, but that is common sense. good luck!

Onagics

I'm noticing alot of engine failure inducing trouble like "flooding" despite responsible care, and years of spotless performance otherwise. Sounds discouraging.

risky business

i have an 04' bought it with 66k miles and now i just clocked over 78k. had it for 6 months. only problem was i needed a new gas cap because the one i had wasn't holding pressure like it should. cost me 10 bucks.

no problems here. car runs very strong.

Onagics

I checked the T.S.B. sticky you guys have created here and there's levels upon levels upon levels. I can't ask a Mazda receptionist at a computer at my local dealer to sit on the phone with me and go through all of these, one by one. For two cars.

So I assume there's a select few TSB's/Recalls which everyone here knows are the most critical to confirm they have been performed?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

My car is an 04' bought with 12k on the odometer. I currently have 84k on it. I love this car. However, despite 3000k oil changes religiously, 93 octane always, and oil checks at most fillups, I have had the following issues.

1. Engine replaced at 22k
2. Heater unit replaced at 28k
3. Gas Tank replaced at 30k
4. Alternator has been rebuilt twice
5. Starter Replaced
6. ABS Control Module Replaced (due to original alternator over charging)
7. Drivers side window switched replaced (due to alternator over charging but dealer wouldn't cover even though it was working fine before that)
8. Both rear tail lights replaced twice (fifth water issue fixed today on the left tail light with new gasket and pad)
9. Three visors replaced (maybe even four but only one passenger side)
10. Coils, Plugs, and wires replaced at 80k (normal i think)
11. Sliding part of console has broke twice.
12. I'm on my third battery.

Thats all I can think of but from talking with a lot of local guys most of the issues I have had are not that uncommon. Honestly if I did not have the extended warranty I would have gotten rid of it. But I stuck it out and it has been very reliable over the last 50k or so since the alternator issue (which could have been avoided had I had proper guages at the time). I think if you get a car, make sure the engine has been tested or replaced and at least make sure the PCM flashes and the starter had been upgraded. Also there have been issues with the power steering unit and it is very expensive to fix if out of warranty. But just make sure you get a good extended warranty with a low deductible form your bank.

Onagics

Terrific. Thank you, 9krpmrx8, your input is appreciated.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

No problem. People here are so protective of their cars that they may not shoot you straight. I love this car and plan on keeping it for a while but it has not been a fair relationship.

Onagics

Okay, so I can call any dealership and ask them, by VIN#, if any particular vehicle which I am interested in has had **** Recalls or TBS's performed? Because if so, I think these are the ones which would be of mechanical importance for the cars I will be scrutinizing tomorrow.

Emission Recall 4206F

Bulletin # 05-004/06 (Clutch Master Cylinder, use of ethanol creating expansion in high ambient temperatures)

MSP16: Engine Lack-of-Power PCM recalibration. (for lack of power and harsh idle believed to have been caused by inadequate oil dispersment programming)

objections?

Mazurfer

That's a good list. Not sure about the 2nd one, but you can certainly ask.
#1 and #3 you should make sure have been done or get them done immediately.

Onagics

Damn, both of those cars got jacked [sold] and I ended up in a little mortal combat with some salemen who tried steering me else where. That's 'the game' though.

Either way, I've regrouped and found new vehicles to consider: what do you guys think is better: A 2004 (which people have thier doubts about) with 46,395 miles/$11,888, or a 2005 with (believed to have more bugs sorted) with 60,305/$10,980.

I believed roughly 40,000 to 50,000 miles was plenty of time for an owner to encounter most of the issues which could plague the car and then address them or have just taken responsible care of the car. If that RX-8 is dealer sale-able at 60K, it has to have been either repaired or cared for by now, right?

(naturally, I'll run the VID#'s)

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The '04 perception on here has to be taken with a grain of salty understanding. Most people on here with '04s have either had issues, or have been trouble free, and most of them will tell you that '04s are fine. Well, they certainly can be. The thing you have to keep in mind is that you are not buying their '04 You are buying a rotory that has been under the care of someone else, and if they are selling it, they might not have had a very good time of it.

Carfax will be a big indicator. The more owners it has, the more likely each owner got fed up with issues and got rid of it. Single owners are far better for rotories than they are for pistons, and that gets more pronounced the higher the mileage is.

Most of the '04 issues were with the 4-port automatics, so by getting a manual you will bump yourself ahead of the curve. If you get an '04, Mazda should be able to get you information on if the engine was replaced. If the engine was replaced, this is actually a good thing, since it is a "refresher" on life of the engine. If you can get when it was replaced, they people like Sleepy-z on here might be able to tell you who built/rebuilt that engine, and possibly more information about it. I believe there is a easily spotted bolt that is marked if it was a reman from Sleep-z.

As far as gauges and monitoring your car, I woul heavily suggest considering a CarPC. There are a few threads on them, but basically for ~$800 to $1000, or less, you can get LCD display to customize what information you want to monitor, pulled directly from the ODB2 port. I get the impression that this might fit you a bit better than a bunch of needle gauge clusters.

Feel free to post detailed information on whatever8s you are looking at, the community is very good at analyzing and picking out points of concern. I am sure you could probably also get a member or two to accompany you to dealerships to look them over.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Whenever I buy, I always run the vin and contact the previous owners and just ask them. PM me the vin annd I will be more than glad to get the previous owner info and email it to you.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Okay I ran both cars and they appear to have both been leased by women. In my experience women with money are sometimes better than men at getting their cars serviced. Mt GF and my sister both have their cars serviced religiously. One of the women does not have a valid phone number but the other does. I sent you a PM but just give me your email address and I can scan and email you the info.

Onagics

Hey, has anyone ever done this and had the other owner get substantially upset? It just occured to me, you know...

(thanks again 9krpmrx8, that was a big favor)

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Nah, I doubt it. Seriously I don't buy new cars so I have talked to every owner. You would be surprised what you find out. One of the guys that previously owned one of the Maxima's I had was kind of a ***** but it turns out it was repoed from him so that was why he was sore about it.