bellwilliam

I've wanted a RX8 for a while. want ur comments as to whether a used or new ?

I've read some complaints about poor resale value, so I thought it might be a great bargain for an used RX8, but it seems contrary.

I priced out a new MT RX8 at about $23k locally (not much options, I prefer as light as possible). when I looked at classified, don't think there is a used 2005 RX8 for less than $18k. for $5k more, it seems it is much better to get a brand new car with 2-3 yrs more warranty. any thought ? anything I am missing? used RX8 have better specs? thanks.

balefire

iTrader: (2)

After scouring for a good deal for three months, I got a used base 05 rx8 in 9/06 for 18k with 10k miles. I did have to fly and drive it home though. If you're willing to wait and be patient into the winter, and you're willing to fly/drive to pick it up, you should be able to pick up an 05 rx8 for 16k, or an 06 rx8 for 18-19k easily now that its 10/07...

buying used has the advantage of not being immediately upside down on the loan...

if you're buying outright, or your doing a short term 36m loan to avoid being upside down for long, or you keep your cars forever, then buying new makes sense.

getting an '05 may be marginally lighter (like 10 lbs), but nothing pertaining to the track that should sway your decision in terms of options

Razz1

Depends upon how long you are going to keep it.

For 5 grand more I would normallly go with a new RX8.

However, the 5G is enough of a differance to buy the used one.

I would go used. In 4 years you'll be looking for a new car.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

i bought new in '04 because, well, there wasn't that many used ones floating around at that time, and i want to know EXACTLY how the engine was broken in when new, preferably by myself lol

bellwilliam

thanks, but the way I also look at it, is if I do sell in 2-3 years. I am pretty sure I can get few thousands more for 07 instead of 05 (07 will still be in warranty). so price delta really is a lot less than $5k, may be down to $1k to $2k.

I am buying outright.

I am a little surprised with RX8 resale value. it really is not bad if you lost $5k in 2 years (almost 3 actually), that's 20-25% only.

does different year of RX8 have different warranty terms ? I read something about Mazda extending some warranty on certain models.

Revvittupp

Look around. The depreciation of this car IS big. I recently got an 05 Touring 6MT for $17500. That was a $26k reasonable retail price 15 months ago. Don't forget, '07's have shorter warranties. Was it '05 or '06 that hey switched to the 3/36, I forget... A stripped lwo mileage '05 should be able to be found for $16k or so. I remember I bid on a '04 base MT, with 30k, and I stopped at $14,500, I think it no saled at $14,800, that is auction price, plus $295 fee.... But it is a good baseline wholesale value. You can expect to pay a bit more.

CXTKRS1

I would go used, for 20K a dealer had a black 07 RX8 in Texas with 10K miles loaded with HID's and NAV. If your patient you can get a top of the line model for 20K.

bellwilliam

where ? thanks.

Jethro Tull

iTrader: (6)

After waiting 26 years since I sold my RX-7 and recently paying-off my mortgage, I wanted brand-spanking new. I got around being upside-down on the loan by putting $11,500 down on my '07 RX-8. I still take the depreciation hit, but should the need arise I'll never owe more than I can get for it.
For the last 20 years my tendency has been to keep a car for as long as it doesn't nickel-and-dime me to death. Still have my '91 Explorer purchased BN, 109K miles and going strong.
There's just something about a BN car that "previously owned" can't match, not to mention knowing with absolute certainty what the car's history is. My 2 cents.

architect

Prior to 07, it was 4 year/48,000. For 07, it changed to 3 year/36,000 bumper to bumper & 5 year/60,000 miles powertrain warranty.

bellwilliam

prior to 07, what was the warranty on powertrain ?

Rems31

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/de...odel=RX-8#used

here you go...I think most of your questions will be answered here. Just search through it to look for what you want.

architect

04-06 were 4 year/48000 bumper to bumper. No extended powertrain warranty.

Revvittupp

4/50.

BTW, what's the big stigma on neg equity?

Personally, I STRIVE for as much as possible. Huh?

This way, you pay for as LITTLE of the car as possible, as time goes on. How is this a benefit to me?

Say I roll $5k in negative equity into a new car, drive in 90 days and it gets stolen. Insurance company gives me 70% of what i paid 90 days ago, and Gap insurance covers the rest. What have I paid for this car in 90 days? 2 payments MINUS $5k. Or NEGATIVE $4k or so.

Say you put $10k down on same said car in same said situation. You will likely get a couple fo dollars back after insurance pays it off. What id you spend for 90 days? $10k + 2 payments- refund. Probably about $8k or more.

As time goes on, this model gets and closer. Eventually it will cross and you will have spent more, based on additional interest. But here is the key.

I have good credit, so I get low rates(5-7% traditional). I also have a good money manager, and over any worthwhile time period he will get me 8-10% on my money. Take income tax out and that is still above my 5-7%.


The biggest point? There can be situations where cash sales or high DP's work otu as lower overall costs of ownership(though the time value of money would reduce these effects). However, there is no manner known to man that will have the difference of a recently purchased vehicle that is totaled.

So what heppens when you want a new car, and you are too upside down to buy one? Simple, you DID stash that money with your money manager didn't you? It's still available and has grown.

The only wrench in this exampel is you. If YOU are not responsible enough to invest the "Down Payment" then YOU can get yourself into a hole where you need to keep your car longer then YOU want to.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

You have to remember dealers are selling new 8's well below MSRP now. So your negotiated $23k is at least 3-4k below MSRP if not more depending on specific model. A lot of the people selling these cars for 18-22k used purchased them new for 27-35k new. So thats a 11-17k loss over a couple of years.

I think the smart money is on a "sport" model for someone concerned about the weight. They don't have any of the weight adding options like moon roof, heated leather seats, etc etc but they do have the HID's and traction control. If you can get a new sport for 23k (which you should be able to if you are buying outright) I would go for that over used. But I would also pick a low mileage sport model ~17-18k over a new base model.

Lots of factors in there though. You'll have to weigh all the options.

bellwilliam

used vs. new is always hotly debated. just depends what matters to you more. for me, it depends on what the price delta is. I just found a local dealer selling a new 07 for $22k. I've seen some used 06 on this forum asking for more (but now you guys told me 06 has better warranty), so it only made sense for me to buy used, if price is much lower than $22k. There is always some risks buying used, no matter how good the car looks.

there is currently a $2,750 rebate. with $2k discount from dealer, you can do $22k easily on a base MT. I don't care much for performance package, traction control, DSC and Xenon don't help on track.

so often, buying used don't save you much money. don't forget if you sell later, your newer year car will also sell few thousands more than older year model, so you also recooperate some of those money back.

I confess that I took my last lease to track for 24 months. I had dedicated track tires/wheels and Stoptech brakes. end of the lease, it had only 12k miles and fresh OEM tires/wheels and brakes back on the car. not a scratch (had 3M clearbra also) on it, passenger and rear seats never sat in. no way you could of known it has seen 150MPH a few times, and most of the miles near redline.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Thats fantastic if you are flipping cars every few years and are disciplined enough to invest that money - as you said. But if thats the case why not just lease? You'll probably be able to get lower payments doing it this way and have money to invest.

And what about those of us who plan to drive the cars until the wheels fall off then put them back on and repeat? 8,10, 15 years with the same car? With a large down payment on a barely used car I didn't take the depreciation hit - someone else did - my payments are lower than most that leased a new car and it will almost always be worth more than I owe on it unless a major component goes or I wreck the car and don't repair it. I'll be paid off somewhere between 36 and 48 months. For the next several years afterwards I won't have a car payment unless I choose to purchase another car. At that point all i will be paying for is a periodical repair.

Revvittupp

Leasing... yes, I'm a HUGE proponent of leasing, but in the case of the RX8, the initial Depreciation is almsot always not worth taking yourself. A car that holds it's value initially should almost always be leased(Honda, Acura, BMW, etc. )


THose of you who keep em forever? How is that nay different? Putting a Large downpayment and then paying it off quickly is fighting the Time-Value of money. you are in net effect increaseing your total cost. The point where you feel you can take full coverage off of a fully-paid car is a hitch, but if you actually do put your money to work for you, you could at any point pay your loan off.

Here is the crux of it. Why pay for soemthign today, that you can put off tomorrow, and use inflation to your benefit. Adding in the increased cashflow by borrowing and investing, the point becomes even more clear.

And you are fooling yourself if you don't think you take a depreciation hit after buyign a used car. There is a difference between retail and wholesale, new and used. Unless you catch someone sleeping, you should never be able to sell on your own a car that you paid equal or less to yourself. Especially in stringent inspection states.

Sure you will alwyas owe less then it's worth doing it your way, but you will have always already PAID more to that point as well.
A dollar today is worth more then a dollar tomorrow. That is my point.
Any point in the repayment period if your car is a total loss, you lose out bigtime. And like I said, if you truly invest your proposed DP, the net effect of your investment account less your auto loan is positve, as compared to the down payment and loan situation you provide. I can understand people not buying cars in the manner I'm describing, it's simply not fiscally smart, unless f you doubt your own discipline.

Rems31

You forget that the more you put down, the less interest you pay. Your monthly payments actually go toward paying off the principal amount. Ever seen the split between principal and interest payments on a loan? Look at a 20-year mortgage for example. Your initial payments are mostly interest payments.

So no, putting a huge down payment does not increase your cost. For the average joe who doesn't play the market, the bigger the down payment, the better.

And if you're offered an interest rate lower than inflation, why wouldn't you finance the car if you can afford to?

And when is your car a total loss? We have this thing called insurace and anyone who doesnt drive a beater should have collision coverage which will replace the value of the "loss". So how are you out that money?

And as I pointed out before on the calculating a lease thread, the lease will always be cheaper in terms of what you dished out already in the earlier years. That's one of the benefits of a lease. But if you calculate it prospectively and assume you're purchasing the car at the end of the lease, the values will be the same.

Revvittupp

No, I didn't. The rule of 72 works BOTH ways. The more you put down, the lower your payments yes. But also, the more you invest, the greater your returns. The larger the DP in question the further it spreads.

aha... see you are thinking though. lemme follow in your tracks.

Your point on interest less then inflation is getttiing to the meat and bones. EXACTLY. Why pay today what will cost(effectively) less tomorrow.

When is your car a total loss/ Not too often, but I'd bet you'd find that better then 1 in every 10 people you know has had one stolen or crashed.

Yes insurance is great. They pay book value. Has nothing to do with what you paid or owe. Use it to your disadvantage, not the other way around. Buy a $30k car with $10k car, have a $20k loan. Total it 6 months later, when you owe $19. Book value of $24k. Yoiu get a check for $5k, half of what yoru Down Paymetn was.
Buy the same $30k car, put no money down, buy gap insurance, now you have a loan balance of $30,500. Total it in 6 months, You owe $29400, collect your check for $24k, have Gap pay the other $5400 and be happy you didn't lose your down payment. Then walk into the Dealership with $1k down form Gap to buy a car. You are now $6k in the black, plus a bit, as your investments on the $10k outperformed your payment differences.

Rems31

Well if you get a low finance rate, then yea you should put less down. But for people who have bad credit (and I see a lot of people who don't know how to manage their finances) and get like over 8% interest (inflation is usually around 3%) then they should definitely put more down.

Any long term loan, I think, it's better to put more down cuz the banks will charge you more than inflation. Car manufacturers only give low rates as an incentive to buy. So, unless you get one below 3%, it's best to put more down.

P.S. Don't forget about capital gains tax :-P
And if you total your car after 90 days, you have a case against your insurance to get you a new car. The point of insurance is to make you whole. There are endorsements you can purchase with your insurance to protect against depreciation too.

Revvittupp

I will agree, if you have damaged credit and no access to investment advice, you can lose buying cars with little DP. I did mention a coupel fo times that this is dependant on fiscal responsibility, and a rate spread between after tax investments and cost of funds.

BTW, for people disputing my thought process, you do realize that this is why banks are in business right? They Borrow money from YOU(deposits) at a low rate, and lend it back to YOU at a higher rate for consumer loans.

Rems31

haha yea. Even if you look at exchanging currencies. If you buy $100 worth of a foreign currency and then sell it back to them, you'll end up with less than what you originally had.

Kinda like buying then selling a car...