haggling advice...
07-03-2006, 06:59 PM
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haggling advice...
Im trying to purchase a leftover 05 from a local dealer, its pretty much brand new but its been sitting on there lot since august of 04. They tried to tell me that they will give you 5k off the sticker.....msrp at 33 something. So he comes back with a sheet saying itll cost me 29,178...which is way less than 5k off the sticker price. What should i expect to pay for a 05 6spd gt? I found one from another dealer same car, but it has the indash navigation and the side strakes for 21,477 out the door TTL everything. Only problem is that the one at the local dealer is white and i really like the color.What can/should i do??
07-03-2006, 07:50 PM
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I'm not sure where you live, but those guys are nowhere near where they should be in terms of price and discounts. That '05 has been on the lot for a extremely long time and I would expect at least a $7k discount off of MSRP. I would negotiate for $27000 out the door and place a ceiling at $28000 out the door. Make sure you point out to them that the '07's are due out soon, and that the car has been on the lot for almost 2 years. These guys are desperate to get rid of the '05s, keep that in mind.
07-04-2006, 12:19 PM
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Where are you? That deal for 21, 477 out the door looks real good. If the other dealer won't match... don't do it. The same car but with nav... and there seems to be a number of 2005 white cars left... $28k out the door is too much to pay.
07-04-2006, 12:46 PM
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Go to edmunds.com and look at their "confessions of a car salesman" article. it has very good techniques on how to haggle. make them a fair offer (show them the offer from the other dealer) and stick to your guns. let them take your info (name and phone#, prefferably cellphone) Go with a pre approved loan (don't tell them how much though) and let them know that you already have financing and that they could make the sale that same day if they meet your price. if they don't stand up and walk away and tell them you are going to go look at the car in the other dealer. (you can always return a couple of days later to give them another chance to meet your price) remind them that the car will be 2 years old and still sitting in the dealer so they can sell to you on your terms, or they can continue to loose money on it. The argument about the '07s comming out soon should also help you.
Good luck
I understand how you feel about the white ;-)
Good luck
I understand how you feel about the white ;-)
Last edited by WhiteDealershipRice; 07-04-2006 at 12:49 PM.
07-04-2006, 01:15 PM
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Make sure you know exactly what the dealer paid for the car. Don't forget to factor in kickback, I think 2% of base masrp for mazda. Negotiate from there and subtract any incentives after you have agreed on price. Oh, and beware of "dealer fees", where they're trying to make you pay for the cost of running their business, and advertising. edmunds.com and carsdirect.com are decent sites to get pricing info. Like WDR said, point out to them that the car is basically a used two year-old vehicle no matter how low the miles. Good luck.
07-04-2006, 07:26 PM
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05's should have 4k in dealer cash on them so I would expect 4k under invoice, MSRP means nothing.
Some dealers will hold on assessment fees, a guy told me he'd give me holdback and everything but he could do nothing about the $330 assessment fee. I never payed an assessment fee on any of my previous vehicles that I'm aware of.
Some dealers will hold on assessment fees, a guy told me he'd give me holdback and everything but he could do nothing about the $330 assessment fee. I never payed an assessment fee on any of my previous vehicles that I'm aware of.
07-05-2006, 09:59 AM
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ALWAYS take your own pad and pen, and write down all the numbers they throw at you. Often they will jot a bunch of stuff on a sheet of paper, crunch some #s, and then not let you take that sheet of paper away with you (they fear you might take it to another dealer and cross-shop them). One dealer tried to stop me walking away with my own pad with the numbers pretty much copied via reading upside-down at the desk. Err.... guess what buddy... my property, get your sticky fingers off!
Also helps to take another person and do the good-cop/bad-cop routine, i.e. take someone pretending to be your wife, have a secret sign (e.g. tap foot 3 times under the table) which means "I wanna get out of here", and another one that means "STFU this is a good deal here", and they can act accordingly and give you an excuse to leave in a hurry if things are not going your way.
Oh, and watch out for them saying the car is in demand. One dealer even had someone else "interested" in the same car as I was asking about it. They had them go out and test drive it during my negotiations. Guess what - it was still on the lot a week later; the test driver was probably a plant. BTW, them sending the very car I was interested in out for a test drive was a clear symbol that they were not taking my offer seriously. That alone signaled they were a bunch of a-holes who sell cars to who they want to, rather than those who actually have the cash to buy. I ended up buying out of town.
Also helps to take another person and do the good-cop/bad-cop routine, i.e. take someone pretending to be your wife, have a secret sign (e.g. tap foot 3 times under the table) which means "I wanna get out of here", and another one that means "STFU this is a good deal here", and they can act accordingly and give you an excuse to leave in a hurry if things are not going your way.
Oh, and watch out for them saying the car is in demand. One dealer even had someone else "interested" in the same car as I was asking about it. They had them go out and test drive it during my negotiations. Guess what - it was still on the lot a week later; the test driver was probably a plant. BTW, them sending the very car I was interested in out for a test drive was a clear symbol that they were not taking my offer seriously. That alone signaled they were a bunch of a-holes who sell cars to who they want to, rather than those who actually have the cash to buy. I ended up buying out of town.
07-05-2006, 01:25 PM
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the one for 21k is red....and im going to try to talk them down..a 2 year old car does not get sold at sticker price. Im willing to pay 23-24 and i think thats a fair price
07-05-2006, 01:52 PM
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Am I reading this wrong? You're talking about the same car, except color, for nearly $8,000 less? eight THOUSAND??!! Buy the red and paint it whatever color you want!
Haggling requires a TON of patience. Tell them what you will pay, let them throw offers, blow smoke, talk all sorts of BS, and just wait until the number comes down to what you wanted in the first place. It took a little over 3 weeks, with the salesman calling me at least every other day (unbelievably annoying & frustrating), before the number hit my initial offer. They will basically try to wear you down, so you just say F8ckIT and buy it at a higher price. If you are financing through them let them have the info they need ahead of time, or you will have to haggle twice. Once on the price, then all over again on the APR.
1. No matter what they tell you about the amount they have to make on the car, sell it for, etc, assume they are full of ****. 99.99% of the time they are.
2. No matter what they tell you about your credit, ignore them. (You should know your credit ahead of time anyway - see link here for free; and it's worth it to pay the 5 or 6 dollars it costs to get the Credit Score). They can sell the car at whatever price/APR they want, if they say otherwise assume they are full of ****. Again (b/c it's important) 99.99% of the time they are.
Good luck, and happy hunting. Practice saying 'no' - you'll need to 20 or 30 times.
Haggling requires a TON of patience. Tell them what you will pay, let them throw offers, blow smoke, talk all sorts of BS, and just wait until the number comes down to what you wanted in the first place. It took a little over 3 weeks, with the salesman calling me at least every other day (unbelievably annoying & frustrating), before the number hit my initial offer. They will basically try to wear you down, so you just say F8ckIT and buy it at a higher price. If you are financing through them let them have the info they need ahead of time, or you will have to haggle twice. Once on the price, then all over again on the APR.
1. No matter what they tell you about the amount they have to make on the car, sell it for, etc, assume they are full of ****. 99.99% of the time they are.
2. No matter what they tell you about your credit, ignore them. (You should know your credit ahead of time anyway - see link here for free; and it's worth it to pay the 5 or 6 dollars it costs to get the Credit Score). They can sell the car at whatever price/APR they want, if they say otherwise assume they are full of ****. Again (b/c it's important) 99.99% of the time they are.
Good luck, and happy hunting. Practice saying 'no' - you'll need to 20 or 30 times.
Last edited by dmc27; 07-05-2006 at 01:57 PM.
07-05-2006, 02:12 PM
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I just picked up a "new" 05 GT MT with 92 miles on it. It has no spoiler but i did get a spare tire kit (worthless and will prob take it out of trunk for weight/storage factor), no nav or anything else beyond GT package. I think the price was $24,300. That was with the $4k cashback and another incentive my dealer mentioned that if they listed the cars as sold in 2005 they got additional cashback. I could have gotten another $500 off if I went to college closer to the dealership (their college cash back incentive is determined by zip code). Anyway, after taxes, titles, fees, and and the optional $500 5-year wheel/tire warranty, the bottom line was just over $26k. Another dealer offered me an 05 AT with the Sport Package for just around $22k with no back end on his part. Hope that helps.
Oh, the second dealer did mention that being in the Northeast was a factor (not a lot of people want 8's up here where the roads are shitty, the traffic is congested, and the winters are long), so that might also play a role in your situation.
Oh, the second dealer did mention that being in the Northeast was a factor (not a lot of people want 8's up here where the roads are shitty, the traffic is congested, and the winters are long), so that might also play a role in your situation.
07-05-2006, 02:55 PM
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Step 1 - stop returning their calls. 
They've had that white car around for months and months. It's not going anywhere. If you keep talking to them they'll think you're eager enough to take their deal. Mazda has probably forked over a ton of incentives and trunk money and who knows what else to get rid of the 2005s. That dealership would love to pocket it all - don't give it to them.
Wait, wait and wait some more. If they call and catch you on the phone say, "I'm off to look at this great deal on another RX-8. If I don't buy it maybe I'll call you back."
I bought a left-over 2004 almost 1 year ago. I got $8500 off MSRP and no b.s. at all from Schaefer and Strohminger in Baltimore, MD.
True story - about 1 week before I talked to Shaefer and Strohminger another salesman called me. He says, "I know you're looking for a used 2004 at a good price, but I found a brand new 2004 in your color with only 59 miles on it. Would you be willing to take it for Invoice price?" Well, come to find out - that was the same car Shaefer and Strohminger was selling for $4,000 UNDER INVOICE. This dip was planning to pocket the difference (robbing S&S and I at the same time?) as a service fee for hiding the true buyer and true seller from each other. Your dealership may be trying to do the same thing (except without the additional middle-man), especially if you already showed a ton of enthusiasm for this particular car.
Okay, here's my personal key to car buying - don't try to take one particular car, salesman, dealership and get the best possible deal there. Cast your net far and wide - seek out many suitable cars and talk to many salesmen and take the best deal you find.
I'm an engineer, not a salesman. I have no flair for haggling, b.s.ing or negotiating. However, I was able to methodically search out many suitable RX-8s for myself last year and close a great deal with a good dealership (actually dealt with the sales-manager there first). I just did the same thing for my wife to buy her a car last week. We spent weeks and months researching and when the right deal came along - BAM! Snagged it.
They've had that white car around for months and months. It's not going anywhere. If you keep talking to them they'll think you're eager enough to take their deal. Mazda has probably forked over a ton of incentives and trunk money and who knows what else to get rid of the 2005s. That dealership would love to pocket it all - don't give it to them.
Wait, wait and wait some more. If they call and catch you on the phone say, "I'm off to look at this great deal on another RX-8. If I don't buy it maybe I'll call you back."
I bought a left-over 2004 almost 1 year ago. I got $8500 off MSRP and no b.s. at all from Schaefer and Strohminger in Baltimore, MD.
True story - about 1 week before I talked to Shaefer and Strohminger another salesman called me. He says, "I know you're looking for a used 2004 at a good price, but I found a brand new 2004 in your color with only 59 miles on it. Would you be willing to take it for Invoice price?" Well, come to find out - that was the same car Shaefer and Strohminger was selling for $4,000 UNDER INVOICE. This dip was planning to pocket the difference (robbing S&S and I at the same time?) as a service fee for hiding the true buyer and true seller from each other. Your dealership may be trying to do the same thing (except without the additional middle-man), especially if you already showed a ton of enthusiasm for this particular car.
Okay, here's my personal key to car buying - don't try to take one particular car, salesman, dealership and get the best possible deal there. Cast your net far and wide - seek out many suitable cars and talk to many salesmen and take the best deal you find.
I'm an engineer, not a salesman. I have no flair for haggling, b.s.ing or negotiating. However, I was able to methodically search out many suitable RX-8s for myself last year and close a great deal with a good dealership (actually dealt with the sales-manager there first). I just did the same thing for my wife to buy her a car last week. We spent weeks and months researching and when the right deal came along - BAM! Snagged it.
Last edited by Cool-Blue-Dad; 07-05-2006 at 02:57 PM.
07-05-2006, 03:28 PM
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^ Yeah, I forgot that point. I had 4 places trying to get my cash, and up until 2 days before signing had 2 salesmen working me over, and I felt like 
It's a PITA, but you'll thank yourself in the end. They will scrap quite a bit to knock off a few hundred; just go back and forth. But beware the "I'll throw in -insert any number here- service visits in for free" crap.
It's a PITA, but you'll thank yourself in the end. They will scrap quite a bit to knock off a few hundred; just go back and forth. But beware the "I'll throw in -insert any number here- service visits in for free" crap.
07-05-2006, 03:45 PM
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It must depend on the car. I did a search for copper red Shinkas in my area and there are 4. Hertitage in Owings mills, MD has 2 and will give me one at 1250 below invoice (1k dealer cash ends on the 5th of July), Congressional in rockville is the same but Shaefer and Strohminger wants 2% over invoice.
Here is how I bought my last two cars. Internet everything! Do a search via Mazda's website for inventory in your area or if it's an 05 do an autotrader.com search. Email everyone you find that you like with the price they can do on the car and go from there. Have your price agreed to over email and or phone and have your financing in hand before you step foot in the dealer. Then the only hassle is your trade-in if you have it.
Here is how I bought my last two cars. Internet everything! Do a search via Mazda's website for inventory in your area or if it's an 05 do an autotrader.com search. Email everyone you find that you like with the price they can do on the car and go from there. Have your price agreed to over email and or phone and have your financing in hand before you step foot in the dealer. Then the only hassle is your trade-in if you have it.
07-06-2006, 05:28 AM
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well this dealer has a black cherry shinka, a white 05 6mt and a ti gray 04. They want 25 for the shinka and 23 for the gray one and 29 for the white one???the car has only 300 miles on it and still has the protective tape on the inside.. i dont get it you would think they would want more for the shinka...i told them im willing to pay 25g for white one out the door. And im waiting on a response.
07-07-2006, 02:39 PM
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^ huh? Review your responses. 4-5 days is not enough to get the car at the price you want. You won't get a good price on any vehicle w/o playing the game. It is irritating and frustrating, but such is life son.
07-07-2006, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dmc27
^ huh? Review your responses. 4-5 days is not enough to get the car at the price you want. You won't get a good price on any vehicle w/o playing the game. It is irritating and frustrating, but such is life son.
In which case, I agree with your dmc27 - I've bought about a dozen cars myself and the research, search and closing a deal was a big effort on every major purchase. Worse than that - most of the purchases were vehicles I stumbled across by chance, not some particular one car on one lot I'd been working to get. Of course, I wouldn't have known those deals were good unless I'd done the research and homework to know what I really wanted and know a good deal when I saw one - maybe that's the advice we should all give to the new members who post, "Is this a good deal?"
If you have to go home, log onto the internet, sign onto a forum and ask folks if an offer is a good deal then you don't know enough to buy a car yet and you should be researching/studying, not shopping.
Nah, that's too harsh......... they are researching when they ask that, aren't they?
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