Cool-Blue-Dad

Okay, since you asked I pulled out the Vehicle Invoice Detail which Schaefer & Strohminger Mazda in Baltimore, MD faxed to me:

.................................................I nvoice Amt....Retail Amt
RX8 6P......................................$24,659... ......$26,680
In-Dash 6-CD Changer.............$400..............$500
Cargo Tray................................$40........... .....$50
Carpet Floor Mats.....................$0..................$0
Portfolio....................................$0... ...............$0
Moonroof Wind Deflector...........$36...............$45
Navigation System....................$1721............$2000
Rear Wing Spoiler.....................$285..............$355
Alarm Shock Sensor Upgrade....$48................$60
Spare Tire Kit.............................$320.............$ 395
Wheel Locks..............................$0............. ....$0
Touring Package M/T.................$2409...........$2800
Appearance Package.................$775.............$970

Transportation $520 $520
Baltimore Assessment $100

Total: $31,313 $34,375

Then the magic words written in the margin:
$31,313
-$4,000 Dealer Cash
- $534 Holdback
Sale for $26,779
NY Sale - $25,995

S&S agreed to give me $500 for my worthless trade-in so I drove down and signed papers to pay $25,595 for this car with an original sticker-price of $34,375 - a whopping $8,380 off the full sticker-price! The $25,995 is what they offered me straight out over the phone when I contacted their internet sales division. Kudos to S&S for being straight shooters.

Now, if Mazda really gives a full 3% dealer holdback on these 2004s then the dealership must have given it all to me because 3% of $31,313 is $939.39 and they went $1318 lower than "Invoice - Dealer-Cash". I assume the "Dealer-Cash" is a special incentive given to this dealership to help them move the 2004s. They must have also cancelled out the transportation charge and/or Baltimore assessment also (which is fine - I consider those charges overhead which shouldn't show up as line items on my invoice anyway).

Now, get this - I talked to dozens of dealers and private parties looking for my perfect blue RX-8 all through August and September - Schaefer & Strohminger were the last. Before I found them another sales guy from another dealership found *this* car at S&S and tried to sell it to me for the full invoice price of $31,313 so - watch out for crooks.

If you can find a new, never-titled 2004 at an honest dealer you should be able to get an amazing deal.

If you have a dealer with a 2004 on the lot who is not giving you this good of a deal I will fax you my fax and my sales invoice. Mazda must be giving all of the dealerships $4,000 dealer cash to move the 2004s so don't take any b.s.

Cool-Blue-Dad

Glad to help. Any honest dealer should be in that ballpark for a 2004, but you never what you're walking into when you approach a new dealership so I'm glad to provide some data for you. I was lucky to just walk right into an honest, straight-forward dealership after blowing off a few that were greedy or crooked.

Paperwork still took me over 3 hours (there was extra paperwork since they were taking my trade), but that's just the standard cost-of-doing-business when you're buying a car. I felt lucky it didn't take all day.

Cool-Blue-Dad

Let me help you believe - My car wasn't used, it was used up.
1) It was a 5-speed and the shifting fork was gone so you had to 'use-the-force' to find 3rd gear and 4th wasn't easy to find either. That would be a red-flag on any test drive. Cost to repair - unknown.
2) The rear struts were completely destroyed. Not only did the back bounce and clunk on every bump, the back end would skip and skid around in any aggressive cornering. Estimate from shop - $700.
3) The rear main seal on the engine was leaking - bad. About 1 qt/week. Estimate from shop - $800 (odd add 1qt per week which I did for 1 year).
4) The summer tires were bald.
5) The winter tires were bald.
6) I'd done some brake work, but there was still a leak somewhere - might have had a caliper or piston going bad. Brake light would come on from time to time - sometimes it went out when I added brake fluid. Cost to repair - hundreds.
7) The check engine light kept coming on. In NY you cannot get your annual safety/smog inspection sticker if your check engine light is on. Cost to repair - unknown.
8) No CD - only cassette tapes and the driver's front speaker was blown so you had to balance/fade everything to the passenger/rear to prevent the drivers/front from buzzing - oh, and the volume **** busted off the stereo.
9) My inspection sticker ran out at the end of September. I figured I either had to spent $3,000 to get my current car through the inspection and winter or ditch it and get a new car.
(probably due for a tune-up too)


Also - it was a station wagon and, like many folks, I'm way to sexy for a station wagon.

I showed it to some of the local dealerships and they didn't want to touch it at all. If I'd tried to sell it on my lawn I doubt I could have gotten much more than $500 from anyone who drove it. For sure I'd have to argue price with 500 idiots to find one person willing to pony up $500.

Finally, to buy a car at a dealership 300 miles away I needed to either -
1) Drive a trade-in one-way.
2) Rent a car one-way for $100, then return it at the airport and take a $50 cab-ride to the dealership.
3) Find a friend to drive me and pay their round-trip gas, plus buy their lunch and dinner for the day - also about $150.

I figure I was getting $650 value by the dealer giving me $500 sight-unseen for a busted out grey station wagon. His quote was, "You're coming from NY, right? I'll give you $500 for any car you can drive in from NY to MD. Now, if you tow it in that's a different story, but driving it in we can make a deal."

Maybe I could have gotten more than $650 if a buddy used his dealer license to take my car and sell it at auction, but then I would have had to give that buddy a cut and I don't have such a buddy anyway.

Believe my friend, believe. I *almost* felt bad taking their $500, except I'm sure they can/did get ~$500 or more at auction and let it trouble them no more.

EDIT - I forgot to mention the busted out station wagon had 147,000 miles on it. Hence, used-up.

Cool-Blue-Dad

Are you trading a car with some value? Let us know how your shopping works out.

One more bit of advice for looking at 2004s - they've all been stored somewhere for ~1 year. I found one incidental defect that appeared to be rodent damage. Looked like something had chewed on a coolant hose at the top of the engine compartment. I went over my car carefully in broad daylight when I arrived at the dealership - it was otherwise perfect, not a single rock chip, but knowing what I know now I should have looked around under the hood more carefully.

Fortunately, my local dealer replaced the hose - no questions asked (that was one of they ways I selected him among the 5 closest dealers).

Also, be mindful of your cat. The 2004s have been shuffled around dealer lots for ~1 year so that's a lot of chances for idiots to flood them, at least enough to cause the cat to fail after a couple-thousand miles. Ask for the full service report on that car - the dealership that has it should be able to show the car receiving it's recall work and that report may show replaced plugs indicating the flooded it. No harm done that won't be covered by warrenty (I got my free cat after 5 weeks of ownership), but it's all easier to handle if your informed (thanks rx8club.com).

Cool-Blue-Dad

That's awful. To me major body damage means big dents and possibly a twisted frame. How did you miss that one your test drive or pre-test-drive walk-around? Maybe I misunderstood your sentance. Was the serious body damage under the hood? Do you mean the car appeared to have been in an accident, then shoddily repaired?

The frayed insulation sounds more like what I found - evidence of possible rodent damage which is not surprising when a car is stored for ~ a year.

I remember S&S had 4 2004s which they claimed were brand new (to me that means never titled and less than 500 miles and not a demo/program car). I didn't notice if the red one had custom rims. I did notice that my Winning Blue was loaded with options (only lacked the leather seats) and I think the red had everything including leather seats. I guessed that these cars hadn't sold because their options priced them above the budget of too many shoppers. So, the custom rims could mean some dealer (possibly a dealer who had the car and failed to sell it before it went to S&S) tried to dress up the car and attract more attention/buyers or it could mean the OEM rims were damaged and some dealer used non-OEM replacements.

Sorry to hear you had so much trouble at S&S. I was skeptical and suspicious when I drove down there. The deal they offered over the phone seemed too good to be true. At the least I figured they'd try to cut me down further on my trade. However, they did everything they said they would do and I found the RX-8 practically pristine when I arrived so I had no complaints at all.

Cool-Blue-Dad

Hmmm, I must say you should have done those in reverse order.

I had talked with the S&S sales manager by phone. When I drove down we shook hands, then he referred me to a sales associate, Dennis.

First thing Dennis and I did was walk around the car, then we went for a test drive. Paperwork was last. Now, I didn't white-glove the body, but I did practially run finger-tips over every surface of the car. No sells guaranteed 'perfect cars' they sell the car before your eyes as-is so the burden of assessing the car falls on the buyer. At least, that's how I see it.

If I would have found rock chips and dents which had not been mentioned when we discussed price over the phone I would have howled foul and either asked for a signed document saying they would fix the damage or asked for additional price concessions.

All that said, I am sorry to hear you were disappointed. I hope you can lay hands on an RX-8 you like at a price you like. Mine has been the best car I ever owned. Driving an AT Celica while my RX-8 is in the body shop this past week has been a real eye-opener as to just how vastly superior the RX-8 is with other sporty cars on the market

Did they take the car back and simply cancel/refund the sale?

Cool-Blue-Dad

Maybe the guy in Portland has a 2004. ~$8,000 of MSRP does make your head spin - believe me.

I considered paying $1k to ship a 2004 with 12,000 miles on it from Arizona if I won the e-bay auction at $17,000. However, the reserve was not met so they relisted the car. How much below MSRP is the $23,540? If it is not *huge* savings you might not want to take the risk of buying sight-unseen. I would say either get a ride out to see it or fly out one-way. Even with a one-way flight you have a few 'outs' (like getting a one-way rental) in case you need to say no to the deal.

It's hard to believe that some dealers will be so dishonest and waste people's time by failing to mention damage or defects in the car, but folks here on the forum have had it happen to them.

I was blunt with my dealer. I asked clear questions like, "has the car ever been titled/owned?" or, "does the car have any damage which was repaired?" or, "is there anything else I should know about the car before I drive down?" I say keep it polite, being a jerk on the phone won't get you anywhere, but you can politely throw out enough warnings that you're an informed buyer and you won't tolerate any monkey business.

I love having the RXClub.COM sticker on my rear windows. Whenever I talk to a new service guy I nicely say, "have your heard of that forum? 21,000 members on the internet. Yeah, we all compare notes about our service experiences." Is it blackmail or just a polite warning - you be the judge I mentioned the forum to a couple of the dealers when I was shopping too. Can't hurt.

Cool-Blue-Dad

Brother, believe me, as a current owner of an RX-8 with the factory NAV, I tell you - you *want* the factory NAV. It's a whole different relationship with your car when she *talks* to you.