yiksing

Extra power more than make up for the loss in handling.

cavemancan

Anyone know the dimensions of the 20B and LSx...Specifically the length/height?

I would think the turbo and inter placement would negate the advantage of 20B placement? Just like LSx hight...both seem to have a trade off with additional weight being added higer up?

cavemancan

Agreed but the point is to address how handling would be affected. How to overcome any disadvantages. Prove that there even is a disadvantage...ETC ETC.

I think many have secretly asked themselves this question. Hell this may even reveal a disadvatage in 20B turbo swaps (regardless how AWSOME they are). Seeking the truth is all or at least a very good solid guestimation.

I want to see some physics! Anyone got the tallent? Cause I suck!

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

http://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=626

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yiksing

Point taken, I think its a question that will be left unanswered because noone here can get reliable data as to where the 2 engines' centre of mass is, etc. Unless a swapped engine could move weight distribution to the 60:40 extreme, it could be easily tweaked with suspension setup and moving stuff around. The only thing that I could think of to compare the LS and the 20B swap is mpg, sound and the sense of being a unique snowflake.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

ummm the center mass would be straight down the middle of the engine....

3 rotors and an eshaft
8 pistons and a crank shaft.

either way the major weight is straight down the middle of the engine.

As you can see in the pics. the 20b can get pushed back further in the RX-8 chasis. close to where the 13b sits.

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

i think he means center of gravity, and is asking about where it is vertically (i.e., how far from the ground).

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

ah I see.

Well im pretty sure they are utilizing the stock front cross-member so I don't think it goes lower tan the 13b.

cavemancan

Exactly...

Another point worth mentioning though is the 20B in that picture is not turbo'd. I would think it would need to be turbo'd for it to be a fair compareson...Power for power. By adding the turbo it would add more weight up top due to turbo, piping, intercooler, etc.

I do admit that a 20B NA would have an advantage in placement and balance since no other equipment would be installed up top to increase weight and mess with the center of gravity of whats located in the engine bay in general.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

True but the turbo wont add much more weight. looking at 50 pounds maybe plus the weight of the 20b with turbo is what I quoted above. The turbo will not change the placement of the engine.

cavemancan

I have another bright idea...Does it have to be an LS motor?

I saw this and drueled but then I saw the price!

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
$27,000!!! LOL!!

Does anyone know of a powerful, lightweight, and cheap v8 alternative to the LS?

cavemancan

I heard of the Rover v8's the Buicks used to have. Apparently they were like 300lbs fully dressed I think but I haven't noticed how powerful they can get. I also read that they were used in TVR's?

If anyone can provide links that would be great...searching now for more info.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

A very popular V8 swap into all sorts of cars around here is the toyota lexus/soarer 4.0 V8 .
They seem to love them - not sure of the power potential ,,,,,

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

You're asking a question that virtually nobody here has the direct experience to answer in any informed manner.

You should do it and let us know!!!

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

What is the question anyway?
Every chassis has to be sent up.
If you are just talking power --do not forget how TQ affects the car. Just ask any viper driver lol
the 20B will never have the TQ capacity of a LS.
OD

cavemancan

To me power is an after thought...however it would be pointless to perform the swamp unless a significant improvement is experienced.

My goal with this thread was to discuss the affects and the physics of a v8 swap. What Team said is correct though. I just don't want to initiate and be disappointed with the outcome. If the affects to handling are minuscule or nonexistent then this will be the swap for me. Not to mention, to my knowledge, this hasn't been discussed before and it could be a good source of information for others regardless if I do it or not.

On a side note...I keep seeing the phrase..."Just ask a Viper driver...LOL!"...When reading up on the v8 swap threads.

J8635621

iTrader: (10)

Ok so you want a mythical engine that is cheap, powerful, and lightweight.........yea that LSx is gonna be as close as you can come.

cavemancan

LMAO!! I hate you!

J8635621

iTrader: (10)

I'm just saying there is a reason or 100 they put that into everything. It's been tested over and over again and people have figured it out pretty well. It's reliable (usually), very common, and can make plenty of power.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

they are not bullet proof by any means and when they let go it usually is a big event.
Rx7 guys with this swap say if they are not under power then the handling is almost like before..
Even when you boost this car it changes all the chassis responses from before.
My point is-- if you are up for the aggravation in doing this--then do it. Bet you wont c/o about the handling afterward.
For me it would be the electronics that would be really hard to do..
OD

J8635621

iTrader: (10)

Oh I know they aren't bulletproof. I just got done helping my friend get a new motor put in his WS6 and his old boss has gone through multiple motors in both his C5 vettes. They all were far from stock though. Those vettes are close to 1000whp and the WS6 had been through hell before my friend ever got it with full boltons and nitrous probably. If you don't try to push the envelope though, they should last a long time.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I just dont really understand.

whats the point of having a 1K hp car? seriously.

I mean 90% of the ppl who wanna do LS swaps want "better power/tq while increasing Reliability", but in reality, a properly tuned/cared 13B(MSP/REW/RESI/etc) will get ya pretty good streetable power with pretty good reliability, fine, a 13B-REW will probably last 100K or less but hey, its still not bad. not to mention the cost to do a complete swap will not be cheap(most people have a lot of headaches after the swap)

maybe Im weird, but Im not a fan of swapping another engine into another car, Rx-8 or not.

J8635621

iTrader: (10)

He has two 1k hp cars lol. He should give one to me.

Lets say your goal is 400whp then. The LSx would be more reliable (aka damn near stock), have more tq, and get better gas mileage. That doesn't even consider the fact that parts are more readily available, cheaper, and basically everyone knows how to work on them.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

2 1K hp cars ... I bet he likes drag racing.

the parts are cheaper, but unless you can do all labor urself, it is going to cost a lot in labor.


as for "better mpg" thing, yea I think so. but how much did you spend to get that better mpg? that amount of money can buy me years of gas.

this is another each to their own topic I guess.

J8635621

iTrader: (10)

Pulling a perfectly fine renesis and pulling a blown renesis out of warranty are 2 different things. Once the swap becomes a little more commonplace and the kinks are worked out, I bet it becomes contemplatable to go LSx over rebuilding a renesis. Right now it is best left to those with lots of disposable income though.

Yea he loves drag racing.