eastcoastbumps

That's what he said last month and themonth before. And it will be the same sad story when you order parts. 'You'll have them next week...next week...next week...' every time you call.

APEXMX5

Me too. I absolutely insist on awesome steering. I use my 1990 miata with '99 rack and modified knuckles as the comparison standard.

the stock rx8 had great steering and the steering rate was slightly slower than the miata's custom setup.

I will continue to put my time and energy into the steering system until I am satisfied with it, no matter what steering rack I end up using.

My engine sits low and back, it could only go further back with total firewall modding and could only go down more if I switched to dry sump and kept the ride height up. The bottom of the bellhousing is even with the plane of the bottom of the framerails.

I was able to remove about 50lbs from the LS1 and 65lbs from the engine bay and front end. The front axle line goes right between the 1st and 2nd cylinders. the stock Renesis engine cover can sit in place without touching the V8 at all. This wont be an unbalanced or front heavy car.

I expect 50/50 weight dist. in the finished product. and the polar moment should be kept low. The overall weight of the car will be less than stock and balanced so all the ingredients for good handling are present.

I am sure HSC will have a great product that will fit the bill for lots of people. My setup is engineered for competition use and will be much more utilitarian/less fancy.

APEXMX5

Not much of interest to report, but I am still doing things.

I bought an AFM
I measured and ordered a custom RAD.
I drew a plan for my fans/shroud
I am still doing research into several areas
I am cataloging parts that can be sold
I am raising funds

That's it for now, I expect 2 - 3 weeks until start up but longer for driving.

BTW my oil pan is cracked and I need it welded, lame

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

if you are going to track this car and its an LS1--wouldnt you want a dry sump system?

APEXMX5

Yes, but the problem is budget, I plan to install some baffles in the pan for now. Accusump would work too. I am so limited by my budget that many things will have to wait.

DontHateThe8

Subscribe. Nicely done.

cavemancan

I am really glad you said this...too many of these swaps are for power only and they hope that the steering will take care of itself. I have to say this would make or break the decission for me (besides cost of course) in performing the v8 swap. It could cost $5 but if it would ruin the handling of the car...forget it!

You mentioned you were able to remove 50 lbs from the LS1...How so? Did you consider any other LS series block and other then cost what made you decide on the LS1? I am tinkering with the idea of an LS3 with the dry sump system but I also have to consider...Is there a weight difference between the LS blocks and how much? Is it negligable? Etc?

You also mentioned removing 65 lbs from the engine bay. I can see where at least 35 lbs went...a la battery to trunk...but what else? I know you mentioned removing the AC, it being a race car and all, but what about us lunitics that would prefer to keep the AC? Did you weigh the components? Did it aide in clearence issues by removing it?

I would want to do the same as you...engineer it for track work but I also would want it to be streetable (aka AC).

Another question...I am sure you've thought about traction? LOL! i currently have the Forgestar 18x10's all around but I suspect even with that setup and this engine you would still have a few issues putting the power down. Would this much power require a wider tire in the rear? I know this sounds like the staggered argument but now we have tons of torque in play. Look at the vette's they have 2 advantages...the car weighs more which adds to traction if I am not mistaken and the rear tires are 315's? We are taking about making as much power as a vette in a car that weighs 300 + lbs less with skinnier tires.

cavemancan

Hinson has an update...not much of one but who knows...

http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/s-942...3-present.aspx

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

"Staggering" 256 HP from a turbo Renny? Is he joking? If I don't hit 300 RWHP I'll be disappointed, and if I don't hit 280 I'm handing in my Man card...

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Budgetary limits? Oh yea i am very familar with that!
I can tell you have good experience planning builds. Good work dude--come fix mine!
OD

APEXMX5

I edited your post to show just the questions and will do my best to answer them.

1. 50 lbs from the LS1: delete stock cats hanging on manifolds, delete AC compressor, Delete AC comp. bracket, delete PS pump, delete PS cooler, delete PS bracket and lines, replace stock cast mount hardware with custom (a little lighter), delete T56 tranny mount and add PPF adapter (much lighter), Delete EGR system, Delete Evap components.

All this stuff sitting in a box is very heavy, much heavier than a 45 lb weight at the gym, I decided to say a conservative 50 lbs. (sorry it isnt a quantified piece of data)

2. Cost is the only reason I chose the LS1 over the other newer LSx choices. Cost, support, weight and longevity and the reasons I chose LSx over 20bT.

3. I believe any weight difference between different aluminum LSx choices is minimal for all practical purposes.

4. 65 lbs removed from front of car. Battery changed out for light aftermarket racing battery and located in rear of car, Delete dual oil coolers, Delete condenser and lines, delete ABS components, eliminate metal shrouding/shielding, shave all extra brackets and mounting studs, remove bumper and gut out all material not related to chassis rigidity, cut out sheet metal around hood latch area for better airflow to Rad., delete fender liners, Delete fog lights.

pretty much just a V8 with sitting in a shell with only what is required to run.

5. the AC could easily be kept, just adapt lines to the LS compressor, there is plenty of room. I suppose you would have to address any possible pressure switch issues/control problems

6. the heater core nipples are close to the rear of the head but it can work, it is just kinda a PITA during install/removal.

APEXMX5

Mocking sarcasm I am sure.

cavemancan

- The CATs I don't really include that in the weight of the engine. It's already sitting in a location close to the bottom center of the car plus you almost always go for an after market or custom setup which would be lighter.

- You deleted the AC compressor twice...NICE! Now as far as the power steering this would be another component I would need to keep. How much weight do you think the cooler, pump, bracket, and lines add up to?

- Sorry I keep seeing the term PPF but I never see a definition...Same with EGR.

Agreed...Is it reasonable to think getting a drysump setup, mounted in the trunk, would transfer the balance some to the rear?

- Wouldn't it be a good idea to keep the oil coolers for track work? At least one?

- Any pictures of the metal removal? This sounds interesting but how much material are we talking about? Probably not much in terms of weight.

Based on the research I've done so far without the weight saving techniques disscussed here the difference between an LSx and 13B (n/a) would be approx. 200 lbs (20B would be more). If I kept the components I mentioned I think it would be reasonable to get that down to 100 lbs. At that point it would be no worse off then adding forced induction to a stock Rx8. Based on your project would you think this is somewhat accurate (I realize this is specualtion and not based on proven fact...However the engine weights have been posted before by many Rx7 piston conversions).

I have a thread somewhere talking about all this but stopped posting in it cause we are still missing all the essential details/facts to support the theory. The not knowing almost makes me want to sell the Rx8 and get an Rx7 shell and a Hinson/Granny's kit.

APEXMX5

The CATs DO count because they are part of the complete dressed engine for F body camaro engine weight figures. When people toss around engine weight figures for estimation purposes, their figures usually include the CATS. They are around 15 to 20 lbs combined, and they are right up at the manifolds by the block, not under the car.


LOL those are 2 separate things, 1. the AC compressor and 2. the AC comp. bracket. the bracket has 2 pulleys on it because the AC comp. uses a separate belt.


the PS parts you mentioned are around 20 lbs wet. I am still planning to make the stock electric rack work.


PPF = Power Plant Frame EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation


Drysump in the trunk would not be worth the logistical headache for the very small amount of weight moved.
Drysump has its own merits for a track car and if you are using drysump anyway, and the trunk is the only place, then sure, do it.
But dont do it just for weight distribution because you are not gonna feel the 15 pounds move from the bottom front to the mid rear.

Oil temps will be logged and a cooler added if needed. The OEM system is not practical for an LS1 swapped racecar due to cooler placement, size, and fittings.


The bottom line is that a LSx swapped car can be just as light as a turbo'd car with 50/50 weight dist.

the weight spread between NA renny and LS1 can be minimalized.

after minimalization the LS1 actually should be lighter then a turbo/FMIC renny, and the weight dist would be no worse.

the LS sits further forward but is low, and the engine is not top heavy at all

2 equaly stripped and prepped NA cars, one LS and one renny, the renny is lighter... by a bit... add a turbo or an extra rotor or both and then the LS car is lighter.


As we both mentioned, this is all speculation and educated guessing. Lets not get too carried away filling our minds with worries about a few pounds. I will have this thing on scales soon enough and will post the results along with my comparo on the driving.

musclecarconvrt

Wow. Just found this thread. Very cool.

cavemancan

I guess it is in my nature to think it all through. It keeps me employed...LOL! My only concern is the 50/50 dist was achieved in the Rx7's but they already had a turbo rotary which meant it would be easier to get that balance then an NA renesis. Either way we are impatiently waiting video and pics!

APEXMX5

Just a little something
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIKok3RuKjc

OceanStateTuning

updates?

APEXMX5

Updates soon, not much but I am not far from a running car. Not a driving car, but running lol.

OceanStateTuning

Is the trans in?

APEXMX5

The engine and trans are both out right now but the mounts for both are done. I will post an update with pics and details later because I have homework that is a priority right now.

in a nutshell: Fabbed tranny mount that bolts to the stock PPF, installed chromoly FW and sprung 6 puck with new pilot and release bearings, built a V.A.T.S. byass module to override anti theft in PCM, removed cracked oil pan for repair.

the engine and trans will go back in when the oil pan is done, then I will install the harness and battery, fill oil, connect fuel lines, attempt 1st start up. after startup I will mount rad & fans, install a throttle pedal and cable, hook up the clutch and brakes, install custom gauges, make a shifter, and address the steering system.

all that should get it on the road.

edit: exhaust will happen after the above process

cavemancan

I don't see any pics therefore you must be imagining this so called progress you speak of!

OceanStateTuning

If you don't mind please take as many pictures of possible of everything. How tight is she in there? Did you use a stock camaro oil pan?


I picked up a RX8 Sunday with intents of doing a LSx swap... Just the deal I had on the LSx swap MIGHT be falling through now so we shall see.

APEXMX5

LOL Smartass, the bold is progress, the underlined is what is next.




Oceanstate, I will take lots of pics because I am going to reproduce the mounts for sale to help fund my team.

cavemancan

What kind of an excuse is homework...You have a reponsibility to meet this forums needs for 8 cylinder ****!