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Rx8 dies on Drive or Reverse

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Old 10-31-2014, 10:45 PM
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Rx8 dies on Drive or Reverse

First if all here's the background of my car https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...64/?styleid=17

2004, Automatic, New JDM 50k engine, 4 port, 127k transmission, new radiator, (anything else just ask)

I want to thank everyone who helped me, the car now runs fairly well. One problem i have now is getting it started, I hear 3 beeps and it usually takes about 8 seconds cranking for it to start and no white smoke after starting. That's not my main issue, however, as I think that can be fixed with some fresh spark plugs. The starter RPMs are about 260/min per OBD scanner.

My main issue is that once the car turns on, it'll iddle just fine. Although the RPMs drop slightly and the car vibrates but the engine never let's itself shut off. Then when I try to switch to Drive or Reverse the car will just shut off, maybe jerk a little. I need help figuring this out, I have reset everything possibly resetable as well as cleaned and checks maf, ess sensor, filter, oil, tranny fluid, tranny connections, wires, coils, plugs, (need new). Check engine light is on, but no codes come up(possibly from disconnecting battery or old codes from old engine)

One last thing, once the engine shuts off after being warm it won't turn back on until about 10-15 minutes later. And sometimes when I rev it up to about 4-5K after a while it'll just die out all of a sudden.

Some things I thinks may be the issue
Fuel pump (could be loss of fuel so engine dies)
Cat (could be engine can't breathe and dies)
Torque converter (we towed it for about 3 hours so it might've damaged it)

What do you guys think? Any help would really be appreciated!

Last edited by SayDfuse; 10-31-2014 at 11:25 PM.
Old 11-01-2014, 05:15 PM
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I do not know anything about the beeps,

You said you had cleaned everything, and had coils on that list. Did you clean them or replace them?
Old 11-01-2014, 06:04 PM
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Uhmmmm. Failure to restart when warmed up is usually low compression. So..that new engine might be toast :/

Do you have comp test numbers?

The CEL without actual codes sounds strange. Are you able to clear it?
Old 11-01-2014, 06:52 PM
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Better still, did you do both ECM resets after the install? It may be having trouble running due to old values saved from the previous engine and need to relearn for the new one. In case the answer is no, here is a reminder:

NVRAM Reset Procedure
1) With the key in the off position, press and hold the odometer reset button and turn the key to on;
Continue to hold the odo button until the odometer reads "TEST" and then release.
2) Turn the key to off and repeat step one.

This will reset the entire PCM except the KAM which contains the sensor profiles amongst other things. You can reset it with the familiar procedure:

KAM Reset Procedure
1) Turn the key to on
2) Depress the brake pedal rapidly 20 times in a row until the oil pressure gauge sweeps to halfway and back again.
Old 11-01-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 04Green
I do not know anything about the beeps,

You said you had cleaned everything, and had coils on that list. Did you clean them or replace them?
I checked the coils and cleaned them, no white spots. They seem to be in good shape
Old 11-01-2014, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki
Uhmmmm. Failure to restart when warmed up is usually low compression. So..that new engine might be toast :/

Do you have comp test numbers?

The CEL without actual codes sounds strange. Are you able to clear it?
I'm really hoping its not low compression. Sorry I haven't got a compression test (too expensive) and the ECU used to give out lost connection to TCM as well as lost connection to ECU codes. We cleared them about a week ago when we cleaned and checked all connections and they never came back. But the CEL light never turned off. When we scan for codes it just shows 0 codes and 0 pending. Would a drive cycle clear it?
Old 11-01-2014, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mysterion
Better still, did you do both ECM resets after the install? It may be having trouble running due to old values saved from the previous engine and need to relearn for the new one. In case the answer is no, here is a reminder:

NVRAM Reset Procedure
1) With the key in the off position, press and hold the odometer reset button and turn the key to on;
Continue to hold the odo button until the odometer reads "TEST" and then release.
2) Turn the key to off and repeat step one.

This will reset the entire PCM except the KAM which contains the sensor profiles amongst other things. You can reset it with the familiar procedure:

KAM Reset Procedure
1) Turn the key to on
2) Depress the brake pedal rapidly 20 times in a row until the oil pressure gauge sweeps to halfway and back again.
Yes we did both of these again about a week ago. We did them multiple times to assure that it was actually cleared.

And as an update the car now idles a lot smoother since yesterday (nothing was done to it except letting it idle for hours) it seems like the ECU is learning the new engine and now idles much better and smoother. The switching to drive problem is still there however.

I've read that towing the car for a long time (we towed it 3 hours) can damage the torque converter and cause issues switching into gear. Could that be the problem?
Old 11-01-2014, 08:56 PM
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It would seem that it can, indeed, be damaged as can the transmission itself. Sounds as though you should have either had it moved by roll-off (tilt-n-load) or dropped the driveshaft before towing.
Quote from internet:
Without the use of special equipment, you can cause catastrophic damage to an automatic transmission by towing "wheels-down." Because the torque converter -- a vital and costly component within the transmission -- is in "drive" all the time, regardless of where the gear selector is, it can be damaged by even the shortest, slowest wheels-down tow. Besides physically disconnecting the drive train by unbolting the universal joint on the drive shaft, there are a number of safety precautions you can take.

Quote from Mr Transmission website:
Rear wheel drive vehicles must be towed with the rear wheels off the ground. Front wheel drive with the front wheels in the air. All wheel or full time four-wheel drive vehicles should be flat towed (all four wheels off the ground) Not sure? Check your owner’s manual. Also, every vehicle comes from the factory with a recommended maximum towing limit. Unfortunately, few owners obey it. The bands and clutches can start slipping. This causes them to wear out very quickly. It also results in the transmission getting pumped full of debris as they start failing. Improper towing can cause serious damage!
Old 11-01-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mysterion
It would seem that it can, indeed, be damaged as can the transmission itself. Sounds as though you should have either had it moved by roll-off (tilt-n-load) or dropped the driveshaft before towing.
Quote from internet:
Without the use of special equipment, you can cause catastrophic damage to an automatic transmission by towing "wheels-down." Because the torque converter -- a vital and costly component within the transmission -- is in "drive" all the time, regardless of where the gear selector is, it can be damaged by even the shortest, slowest wheels-down tow. Besides physically disconnecting the drive train by unbolting the universal joint on the drive shaft, there are a number of safety precautions you can take.

Quote from Mr Transmission website:
Rear wheel drive vehicles must be towed with the rear wheels off the ground. Front wheel drive with the front wheels in the air. All wheel or full time four-wheel drive vehicles should be flat towed (all four wheels off the ground) Not sure? Check your owner’s manual. Also, every vehicle comes from the factory with a recommended maximum towing limit. Unfortunately, few owners obey it. The bands and clutches can start slipping. This causes them to wear out very quickly. It also results in the transmission getting pumped full of debris as they start failing. Improper towing can cause serious damage!
Well i found an RX8 transmission for sale on Craigslist for $50 with the torque converter included that came off a running car. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow and maybe install it as well, depends on how busy I am. It seems to be a good deal since getting a new torque converter from eBay costs about $80 with shipping.

Last edited by SayDfuse; 11-01-2014 at 11:01 PM.
Old 11-01-2014, 11:26 PM
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If you are certain the torque converter and/or transmission are, indeed, pooched, yes, it is a good deal. If, however, neither is the case, installing new parts to try to solve the problem would be a lot like emulating dealership tactics of throwing parts at it in the hope of getting lucky. Wouldn't a better step be to get a transmission shop to check out both components and render a professional opinion of their viability before spending the extra money?
Old 11-01-2014, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mysterion
If you are certain the torque converter and/or transmission are, indeed, pooched, yes, it is a good deal. If, however, neither is the case, installing new parts to try to solve the problem would be a lot like emulating dealership tactics of throwing parts at it in the hope of getting lucky. Wouldn't a better step be to get a transmission shop to check out both components and render a professional opinion of their viability before spending the extra money?
I'm fairly sure that's the issue (can never be 100% sure) towing a rear wheel drive car at 70mph probably destroyed the torque converter. When we got home the transmission was leaking fluid, my dad is a mechanic and he seems to think that's the issue as well. We will find out tomorrow if we do pop in the new transmission. If the issue persists with the new part, I can always sell it on eBay for profit
Old 11-02-2014, 11:11 AM
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Update!!!!! We bought the transmission , but haven't put it in yet. Tried the old transmission and put it on drive without any issue and drove it about a minute. It died, the fired right up again but the whole time its been in limp mode. The fastest it ran was 40mph and a max of 2k revs. When its parked its easily reved up to 8k RPMs however. Any thoughts?

Last edited by SayDfuse; 11-02-2014 at 11:19 AM.
Old 11-02-2014, 01:10 PM
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If you were able to get it going at all, I'd say the torque converter isn't 100% dead. Revving in neutral doesn't really confirm anything, since there is no load on the engine.

How confident are you that there aren't vacuum leaks somewhere? Because that would have similar symptoms.
Old 11-02-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki
If you were able to get it going at all, I'd say the torque converter isn't 100% dead. Revving in neutral doesn't really confirm anything, since there is no load on the engine.

How confident are you that there aren't vacuum leaks somewhere? Because that would have similar symptoms.
Anything is possible. Where should I look primarily for vacuum leaks? Also, we popped open the old transmission and it was physically damaged. And the transmission oil was black and smelled awful. We have the new transmission ready to put in, we'll put it in tomorrow but we'll wait till the new spark plugs arrive before we try out the car and take it for a spin.

As a side note. The oil pan wire seems to be cut open. (Still makes connection but you can see the copper) I've also read that a bad OMP/OMP sensor can cause limp mode)
Old 11-02-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SayDfuse
Anything is possible. Where should I look primarily for vacuum leaks?
Could be anywhere in the intake after the MAF, including the intake manifold if you've had it apart at any point. There are a number of hoses that hook into the rubber accordion tube, check that they're all plugged in. Having loose hoses there could give you unmetered air.

But I gotta tell you, we're poking in the dark here. Where are you located? Maybe there is someone local to you who can be of more help.
Old 11-02-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki
Could be anywhere in the intake after the MAF, including the intake manifold if you've had it apart at any point. There are a number of hoses that hook into the rubber accordion tube, check that they're all plugged in. Having loose hoses there could give you unmetered air.

But I gotta tell you, we're poking in the dark here. Where are you located? Maybe there is someone local to you who can be of more help.
I live in Lumberton, NC. And if the new transmission does indeed fix the limp mode issue and let's the car run freely, then my only issue would be the hard crank. Usually takes 8 secs cranking and have to give it gas for it to crank. It also almost never cranks when hot, so low compression is probably the cause. That's not a problem since I have new seals bought for it already anyways. What I'd like to know now is how can I improve the cranking? I want to delay having to take out the engine again and changing seal as much as possible.

Right now the cars ignition consists of 4 spark plugs from an overheated engine. They look black and corroded but its all we had. Coils with unknown history also from the old engine that overheated and melteted much if its components, and wires with unknown history from that same engine. Could this be the cause of my starting issue or is compression the source? I refuse to believe a <50k engine lost its compression 😞

Edit: I also smell unburned fuel from the exaust while cranking, but not 100% of the time

Last edited by SayDfuse; 11-02-2014 at 06:56 PM.
Old 11-02-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SayDfuse
I live in Lumberton, NC. And if the new transmission does indeed fix the limp mode issue and let's the car run freely, then my only issue would be the hard crank. Usually takes 8 secs cranking and have to give it gas for it to crank. It also almost never cranks when hot, so low compression is probably the cause. That's not a problem since I have new seals bought for it already anyways. What I'd like to know now is how can I improve the cranking? I want to delay having to take out the engine again and changing seal as much as possible.

Right now the cars ignition consists of 4 spark plugs from an overheated engine. They look black and corroded but its all we had. Coils with unknown history also from the old engine that overheated and melteted much if its components, and wires with unknown history from that same engine. Could this be the cause of my starting issue or is compression the source? I refuse to believe a <50k engine lost its compression 😞

Edit: I also smell unburned fuel from the exaust while cranking, but not 100% of the time
Ignition components in such a shape will definitely contribute to bad start-up and running in general. Definitely need to change all those. The presence or absence of white spots on the coils doesn't mean anything, the main mode of failure is electronic.

You seem pretty handy, but 'replacing seals' is not like a head gasket on a regular engine or anything like that. It needs to be rebuilt to spec and you may not be able to reuse all the parts. I would get the compression actually tested with a proper rotary tester before taking it all apart. It might be fine and just suffering from bad ignition!
Old 11-02-2014, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki
Ignition components in such a shape will definitely contribute to bad start-up and running in general. Definitely need to change all those. The presence or absence of white spots on the coils doesn't mean anything, the main mode of failure is electronic.

You seem pretty handy, but 'replacing seals' is not like a head gasket on a regular engine or anything like that. It needs to be rebuilt to spec and you may not be able to reuse all the parts. I would get the compression actually tested with a proper rotary tester before taking it all apart. It might be fine and just suffering from bad ignition!
I bought my new NGK spark plugs from amazon. Should I trust buying coils from eBay?

These to be exact Ignition Coil Pack Set of 4 for 04 09 Mazda RX 8 UF501 N3H118100 New | eBay

Last edited by SayDfuse; 11-02-2014 at 07:42 PM.
Old 11-02-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SayDfuse
I bought my new NGK spark plugs from amazon. Should I trust buying coils from eBay?

These to be exact Ignition Coil Pack Set of 4 for 04 09 Mazda RX 8 UF501 N3H118100 New | eBay
It's a bit hard to tell without the manufacturer listed. Your local NAPA should be able to get some, at least you'll have somewhere to go for warranty when it comes up.
Old 11-02-2014, 09:00 PM
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++ NAPA Autozone Rock Auto or O'Rieley Coil

I would shy away from EBAY. There are some bad ones out there.
Old 11-02-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SayDfuse
I bought my new NGK spark plugs from amazon. Should I trust buying coils from eBay?

These to be exact Ignition Coil Pack Set of 4 for 04 09 Mazda RX 8 UF501 N3H118100 New | eBay

No, nein, nyet! For $55. it is highly unlikely you will get a dependable set of coils. The old saying "You get what you pay for" never applied more than to ignition coils. They MIGHT get you running for a while, but will probably let you down when you can least afford it...like on a dark country road miles from the nearest phone to call for tow. Better to pay the extra at Advance Auto or Autozone or MazMart and get a set that are fully waranteed and likely to last longer than the time it takes to boil an egg.
Old 11-02-2014, 09:50 PM
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New Owner's Start Here: Ignition Health

Where can I buy new ignition coils?
You have a number of options for coils:
- The Cheapest option: BWD/Intermotor coils from auto parts stores like Advance Auto. These ARE OEM coils, just being sold to auto parts stores directly from the original manufacturer. This is common for virtually every OEM part for any car older than about 5 years old. 4 coils, 4 plugs, and 4 wires can be had for around $190-220 total based on whatever promotion is running at the time, shipped to your door for free. They are considered to be the first coil revision and you should expect to need to replace them around 20,000 miles, 30,000 miles max. They often come with a "lifetime warranty" by the auto parts store, which could potentially be leveraged for perpetually new coils.

- The Best Upgrade: The BHR ignition coil upgrade can be had for around $500, which eliminates the need to continue replacing coils periodically, as well as deliverying a significantly stronger spark for minor mileage and power gains. It is a proven kit with top notch customer service supporting it. It includes the wires, you still need to add plugs ($80)

- The For-Sure OEM: Mazmart sells all 4 coils of the latest OEM coil revision (C) for around $250, (just the coils, you still need to add plugs and wires) Supported by top notch customer service. They will likely last longer than 30,000 miles, but we don't have much solid data on how long the latest coil revision will last. If you are having trouble getting other coil options where you live, or are wary about purchasing coils from other sources, then this is your cheapest option for coils straight out of the Mazda dealer parts network.

- The Most Expensive option: Buying from a dealer will run you around $300+ for the coils, $500+ for coils, wires and plugs, and if you have them do the install, expect to get a bill for anywhere from $700 to $1,800. You may not get the latest coil revision, and it is unlikely that the dealer or techs will be able to tell you what coil revision you have. Yes, you are getting shafted if you take this option, so bring lube.

- The Highest Risk option: Ebay coils continue to pop up as counterfeit, mislabeled, dead on arrival, and have zero post-purchase support largely. They are the "cheapest" listed price, but when you add that $92 or whatever to the price of anything in the list above from having to do it over again, you can see that they are no longer the cheapest option. Do it right the first time. "Motor King" coils are popping up at an attractive price on Ebay, but are being proven as ineffective, to the point of being unable to get the engine fired. "Mazda" branded coils on ebay are almost always counterfeit. Check the seller's name though, since some of our vendors sell legitimate coils there. The price will be $200+ though. Anything sold as "Mazda OEM" under ~$26 per coil should really be considered as suspect and probably counterfeit.

Plugs
Always go with OEM plugs. The only reason to go with anything else is if you are turbocharged or supercharged, have researched ALL the options, and decide to go with something different. Even most FI setups use OEM plugs.

NGK brand, two each of:
RE9B-T <- (trailing / top plugs)
RE7C-L <- (leading / lower plugs)

You can get them from most vendors, Amazon, and autoparts stores easily. The price range is $18-$20 for each plug typically, $72-$80 + shipping total.

Note:
Be wary of "LSx D585 coil upgrades", as not all D585 coils are created the same, and the standard generic D585 coil is not properly designed internally for the RX-8's ignition needs. They generally "work", but there are anomalies and performance issues that have to be solved, if they can be solved. Definitely NOT a plug and play option, even if it is advertised as "plug and play". There is a lot more on the subject to understand, so it would be to your benefit if you learned about the needs prior to making a purchase.
Old 11-04-2014, 09:32 PM
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UPDATE!!!!!!!! We put the new transmission in and everything works great. All the gears kick in at the right time but there's still a small issue.

When the car was jacked it went 0-70 in a few secs and revs went from 1-7 in a few secs. When we drove the car it went 0-30 in like 15 seconds and would slowly creep up on revs but NEVER go past 2.5k even when floored. The fastest we got it to run was 59mph and that's after about a minute of driving and going up like 1mph every seconds. And when its in park and I rev it, it NEVER goes past 6k RPMs then the revs will drop on there own as if I've let go of the gas.

NOTE: Put premium gas in, added new transmission oil, transmission won't stick on neutral (it'll say "drive" on dashboard when physically on neutral) although neutral works fine. Car never dies on its own when stopping, reverse works fine. Everything else seems fine except my start up times (spark plugs should be here tomorrow)

Is this officially limp mode?
Old 11-04-2014, 10:42 PM
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Definitely sounds like it. As a refresher, did you replace the coils with better quality than the Ebay ones you mentioned? When you replaced the 4 coils, did you do the wires, as well? Have you cleaned the MAF, IAT and ESS?
If all that is done, perhaps the best bet, other than going over EVERY connection, fuse and vacuum line looking for loose connections, damaged hoses, blown fuses etc, would be to do a complete reset of everything (battery disconnect and reconnect, NVRAM and KAM) then let the ECM relearn the car in its current state rather than trying to use old settings that it stored before all the work. A search on here will provide you with detailed instructions on the correct procedures for each step of the resets. Once the ECM relearns the car, try giving it a good run and see if that solves the issue.
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