ShadowGryphon

Well, no bubbles in coolant. The level was dropping but I kept adding coolant and it eventually stopped. Also, fans had yet to kick on at all by 200°. Will test again tomorrow, maybe it's the fans and was just low on coolant.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

I don't know much, I'm a novice mechanic. However, there is an adapter that can override the stock fan programming. It replaces the stock relays, and triggers its own relays based on a temperature sensor.

Cooling Fan Control Kit for Mazda RX 8 | eBay

However, this won't do you a lot of good if the fan motors are busted, or if you aren't getting power to the relays at all. Have you tried hot wiring the relay so the fans are on all the time?

ShadowGryphon

How would I do that? I am good with electrical but gotta know the basics first lol.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

This thread describes the fan control relays in detail. If you wire the correct one closed, you get both fans on low. If you wire them both closed, you get both fans on high. I wouldn't recommend leaving the high setting, it would put a large strain on your engine when starting up, and drain the battery.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-...8/#post3554743

logalinipoo

If it takes any more than a few seconds to start it is one of a few things

Bad ignition is normally the first thing. You said you swaped coils. Did you swap wires and plugs? Did you install a ls2 ignition kit or really cheap ebay coils?

Bad compression

or you have coolant leaking into the engine stoping it from starting. Which will normally have bad compression also.

even a slow starter will start it easily if everything else is good.

ShadowGryphon

Or it could be the heavily corroded negative battery cables, a dirty ESS sensor, or any number of electrical issues it currently has. Like I stated before, when I attached the extra ground from the LS2 coil harness to the strut bar bolt it wouldn't fire up, yet when I attached it directly to the battery it would. I will be replacing the ground as soon as I can get under the car, which is tomorrow. I will also be cleaning the ESS sensor and the MAF sensor. And in reality it only takes about 3 minutes to start, I just give it time to cool off the starter so I don't fry it.

Edit: I did install a LS2 ignition kit, but I purchased the coils off ebay. So that may be part of the problem. Plugs were replaced when I bought the car a month ago.

logalinipoo

If it runs fine it has nothing to do with the ess or the maf or any number of other electrical items. Otherwise it would not run fine. corroded battery terminals could cause it, but now you're just coming up with crazy excuses. poor a can of coke on the terminals give it half an hour then go out and wiggle the wires. boom fixed with less than 2 minutes of your time.

Why would you try to hook up the ground to the strut bar? why not the engine?

ok, was it a kit or did you buy pieces off of ebay. normally a kit comes with coils. If you had to buy coils seperately then did you replace the wires?

ShadowGryphon

Bought the conversion harness and plug wires together, and the coils separately. Kinda hard to use stock plug wires on ls2 coils. And it's not the terminal that is corroded. It is the cable itself that is corroded.

ShadowGryphon

Well, pulled the airbox out and looked at the ESS... looks dirty and rusty. The reason I suspect that the ESS is playing foul when starting is that it keeps throwing misfire codes when I start it.

ShadowGryphon

Well, tried again today and the fans turn on low at 207°. They turn on high around 210-215. Car seemed to hover around 210-225. Still no bubbles in coolant so no 98% positive its not a coolant seal. Going to gut the cat and see if that makes a difference as it is likely backed up.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

Could be a bad sensor? It's controlled by the ECU

ShadowGryphon

Could be, I may buy a laser thermometer and see if its really that high

ShadowGryphon

I have an 04 Auto that has starting issues. I've gone through the basic troubleshooting already and done the following:

1. Red Top Optima
2. Updated starter
3. Cleaned ESS sensor
4. LS2 ignition conversion via ebay (will explain more in a minute)
5. Added a grounding kit.
6. Measured ESS Resistance and got 1155.

Now, my hard start issue is essentially that it takes forever to start. As in 5+ minutes. As I stated above I have done a LS2 ignition conversion. I bought the harness and plug wires together and then bought the coils separately on ebay for $50. The reason I mention this is because it acts almost as if the coils are not firing. Could it be I should've went elsewhere for the coils? Or is it something else? Once it fires up it runs fine, no problems out of it other than a lean CEL. Any suggestions?

gwilliams6

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...t-here-222584/

Other RX8 owners have had trouble with coils bought on ebay. Don't buy your RX8 coils on Ebay, Read below !!!!

From RIWWP (RX8 club moderator):
Where can I buy new ignition coils?
You have a number of options for coils:
- The Cheapest option: BWD/Intermotor coils from auto parts stores like Advance Auto. 4 coils, 4 plugs, and 4 wires can be had for around $190-220 total based on whatever promotion is running at the time, shipped to your door for free. They are considered to be the first coil revision and you should expect to need to replace them around 20,000 miles, 30,000 miles max. They often come with a "lifetime warranty" by the auto parts store, which could potentially be leveraged for perpetually new coils.

- The Best Upgrade: The BHR ignition coil upgrade can be had for around $500, which eliminates the need to continue replacing coils periodically, as well as deliverying a significantly stronger spark for minor mileage and power gains. It is a proven kit with top notch customer service supporting it. It includes the wires, you still need to add plugs ($80)

- The For-Sure OEM: Mazmart sells all 4 coils of the latest OEM coil revision (C) for around $250, (just the coils, you still need to add plugs and wires) Supported by top notch customer service. They will likely last longer than 30,000 miles, but we don't have much solid data on how long the latest coil revision will last.

- The Most Expensive option: Buying from a dealer will run you around $300+ for the coils, $500+ for coils, wires and plugs, and if you have them do the install, expect to get a bill for anywhere from $700 to $1,800. You may not get the latest coil revision. Yes, you are getting shafted if you take this option, so bring lube.

- The Highest Risk option: Ebay coils continue to pop up as counterfeit, mislabeled, dead on arrival, and have zero post-purchase support largely. They are the "cheapest" listed price, but when you add that $92 or whatever to the price of anything in the list above from having to do it over again, you can see that they are no longer the cheapest option. Do it right the first time. "Motor King" coils are popping up at an attractive price on Ebay, but are being proven as ineffective, to the point of being unable to get the engine fired. "Mazda" branded coils on ebay are almost always counterfeit. Check the seller's name though, since some of our vendors sell legitimate coils there. The price will be $200+ though. Anything sold as "Mazda OEM" under ~$26 per coil should really be considered as suspect and probably counterfeit.

Be wary of "LSx D585 coil upgrades", as not all D585 coils are created the same, and the standard generic D585 coil is not properly designed internally for the RX-8's ignition needs. They generally "work", but there are anomalies and performance issues that have to be solved, if they can be solved. Definitely NOT a plug and play option, even if it is advertised as "plug and play"

ShadowGryphon

So, some of you may know that I bought an 04 auto about 2 months ago and have had trouble starting it and it overheating. Up til today I had replaced the fuel pump, rad cap, spark plugs, ess sensor, changed the oil, upgraded to D585 coils and wires, and installed an Injen intake. All of these came together to make the car run MUCH smoother once it finally started but it still took an act of god to get it started (15+ minutes hooked to another vehicle). I had even taken it to the dealer for the airbag recall and de-flooding (that's what I originally thought was wrong) and they said it was pushing compression through the radiator. I saw no evidence of that as there were no bubbles in the coolant reservoir which would indicate a broken coolant seal. Fast forward to today: I removed, gutted, and re-installed the cat and squirted a little ATF in each maintenance port. First start took 3-4 minutes. At which point I decided to try the bottle of Blue Devil Pour-N-Go that I had sitting in the passenger seat. I poured it in and set a timer for the 50 minutes of idling per the directions. 15 minutes later the coolant temp was at 245 and climbing so I shut it off and accepted defeat and went to get lunch. 45 minutes later I get home and say "what the heck", hop in the driver seat and turn the key. It started within 3 seconds. Hope restored I checked the coolant temps, which were at 174. An hour of idling later and the temps had reached 235 but were starting to go back down. I shut it off and am letting it sit until tomorrow afternoon. Will see how it holds up then.

TL;DR: Mazda said I needed an engine. Routine maintenance, an ignition upgrade, a simple modification, and a single bottle of Blue Devil and so far the problems are gone. Will update as needed.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

If your coolant temps reached 235F at idle your problems are not gone.

BigBadChris

iTrader: (4)

Did you do a rotary specific compression test? I am guessing the dealer did a coolant pressure test, and that failed?

ShadowGryphon

Maybe not. But the instructions on the Blue Devil say to run for 50 minutes and shut the engine down. At the 60 minute mark the temps slowly started dropping, and were at 228 when I had to call it quits. Not saying that the problems are 100% solved, but I'd say sitting at 235 for an hour before starting to drop is MUCH better than hitting 245+ in 15 minutes. The instructions say to top off the coolant after you shut it off so you never know, there may be an air pocket from low coolant and topping it off may lower the temps even further. Hence why I said I would update as needed. I will also be replacing the thermostat just for peace of mind. Should also mention I'm in MS so its hot AND humid, which don't help with engine temps.

And I never did a compression test and the dealer did nothing more than waste 2 days of my time doing a de-flood procedure (that I'm not even sure was performed) and tell me it needed an engine before discounting the de-flood cost from $180 to $48 as a "professional courtesy" since I work at a nearby Nissan Dealer. The reason I opted not to do a compression test is due to how smooth it runs once it starts. Again, I know most people in my position would have just rebuilt or replaced the engine; and that may still happen. But I figured why not just try anyways? If it works, it works. If not then I'm rebuilding/replacing anyways. Besides, every part I replaced or upgraded would have needed to be done if i rebuild/replace it anyways.

ShadowGryphon

BTW, what they said was that their tech smelled burning coolant and when he went to remove the rad cap it "shot off like a rocket" or something along those lines. But then when I was discussing options with the tech and asked about using Blue Devil, his exact response was "IF you can get it to start it [Blue Devil] should work. Liquid glass would work better." Which ultimately has me wondering if they even got it started.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well if you want to keep wasting your time then rock on.

ShadowGryphon

So I'm wasting my time by replacing parts that would have to be replaced anyways if I have to replace the engine? How so? If I left the shoddy ignition and replaced the engine, the worn out ignition would kill the engine. Same with the bad cat. So what if I'm spending money on a $1500 RX8. It's my car and my money. Why do you care? Why are you so negative?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

No you are wasting your time by overlooking the core problem with the engine and wasting money on other unnecessary things and a band aid BS coolant sealer instead of addressing the problems with the engine itself. And I am not being negative, just truthful. But if you want me to blow smoke up your *** then let me know and I will.

ShadowGryphon

There's no guarantee that the Blue Devil is what fixed the overheating issue. Before yesterday, at idle my Short Term Fuel Trims were on average -18. After the work I did yesterday, which was mostly gutting the cat, they are now ranging from -2 to +2. Maybe the cat was causing a lot of issues and those first 15 minutes where the temps hit 245+ was the ECU learning the change. Who knows? All I know is that something worked. If it works long enough for me to buy the necessary parts and tools (engine hoist) to rebuild it then great. If I never see another issue, even better. I paid $1500 for the car. I have spent maybe $500 replacing things that needed to be replaced anyways: fuel pump housing was cracked and leaking fuel, coils plugs and wires were shot, and ESS sensor was bad. Those 3 items alone would cause issues with a new engine/rebuild so I replaced them now instead of later.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

your ess was bad? weird. anyway i would be cautious of coolant seal stuff. theres a small restrictor in the small coolant line in to the top of coolant tank. i stored my old 8 every winter and one of my spring time coolant flushes kicked up some dirt or something that plugged it causing a lot of headaches. btw if your temps got to 245 your seals are most likely shot anyway

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Nothing worked if your coolant temps are over 200F at idle.