Enquiry from Pettit Racing | They told me turbo'ing a stock engine is completely safe
02-23-2014, 09:24 PM
#51
and a ls swap is around 6k, and thats if you dont pull the renesis engine and trans and sell it for 2500-3000. Plus, a LS swapped rx8 would be more reliable and smash a turboed stock motor. I love the car, not so much the power plant
02-23-2014, 09:35 PM
#53
the WHOLE kit with EVERYTHING besides drive train can be had for $2500-$3000. a used ls1 engine, ECU trans with clutch, and pedal assy. is another $2500-$3000. A LT1 or a chevy 5.3 is $1000 less or more.
so say 6k for everything. and sell the stock engine for $2500. so plus or minus a little, thats $3500 for a solid 300hp/300tq engine
so say 6k for everything. and sell the stock engine for $2500. so plus or minus a little, thats $3500 for a solid 300hp/300tq engine
02-23-2014, 09:40 PM
#55
the WHOLE kit with EVERYTHING besides drive train can be had for $2500-$3000. a used ls1 engine, ECU trans with clutch, and pedal assy. is another $2500-$3000. A LT1 or a chevy 5.3 is $1000 less or more.
so say 6k for everything. and sell the stock engine for $2500. so plus or minus a little, thats $3500 for a solid 300hp/300tq engine
so say 6k for everything. and sell the stock engine for $2500. so plus or minus a little, thats $3500 for a solid 300hp/300tq engine
Preach theory and price all you want, show us a receipt and we will believe this. History dictates it to not be plausible.
02-23-2014, 09:45 PM
#56
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I posted this elsewhere, pasting it because I don't feel like re-typing it.
The swap is NOT simply buying an engine and transmission.
The swap is NOT simply buying an engine and transmission.
$20k for an engine swap is what we consistently see, as a starting point. It's not just an opinion.
It's around $12k for a 13b-REW swap, and that engine is physically the same size as ours...
There are significant complications that drive the figure up significantly. For example, what are you going to do with the steering rack? It's in the way for any engine that isn't a 13b, and "just moving it" isn't actually an option. All options of moving the steering rack end up having significant subframe and suspension complications/considerations. Just one example.
From a hardware perspective, you have to remember that the structure of the RX-8 was designed around a really tiny engine set far back and down low. You simply can't put any other engine there, and there is a significant amount of hardware that can't possible remain. The PPF, entire exhaust system, entire cooling system (both oil and water), driveshaft, much of the front subframe, the steering rack, steering shaft, etc...
Then there is the electrical. About half the cost is just getting the electrical to work. The RX-8's ECU is integrated with every single electronics module in the car. Keyless entry, immobilizer, the dash, the gauge cluster, ABS module etc... So running the engine on something else means that you either have to completely remove every single electronics module in the car and replace it with something non-integrated, or you have to figure out how to get the factory ECU to let those modules work when it knows that it isn't running the engine. A hackjob swap where nothing electronic works and the dash is a christmas tree of warning lights can be done for less than $20k....but that really isn't a swap, it's a hack job. And just removing those modules isn't a simple or easy option either, since it can and will literally disable the rest of the car's electronics. Would you still like your windows to roll up and down? (for example)
There are a lot of considerations that people don't think about when they start contemplating a swap, especially a cheap swap.
It's around $12k for a 13b-REW swap, and that engine is physically the same size as ours...
There are significant complications that drive the figure up significantly. For example, what are you going to do with the steering rack? It's in the way for any engine that isn't a 13b, and "just moving it" isn't actually an option. All options of moving the steering rack end up having significant subframe and suspension complications/considerations. Just one example.
From a hardware perspective, you have to remember that the structure of the RX-8 was designed around a really tiny engine set far back and down low. You simply can't put any other engine there, and there is a significant amount of hardware that can't possible remain. The PPF, entire exhaust system, entire cooling system (both oil and water), driveshaft, much of the front subframe, the steering rack, steering shaft, etc...
Then there is the electrical. About half the cost is just getting the electrical to work. The RX-8's ECU is integrated with every single electronics module in the car. Keyless entry, immobilizer, the dash, the gauge cluster, ABS module etc... So running the engine on something else means that you either have to completely remove every single electronics module in the car and replace it with something non-integrated, or you have to figure out how to get the factory ECU to let those modules work when it knows that it isn't running the engine. A hackjob swap where nothing electronic works and the dash is a christmas tree of warning lights can be done for less than $20k....but that really isn't a swap, it's a hack job. And just removing those modules isn't a simple or easy option either, since it can and will literally disable the rest of the car's electronics. Would you still like your windows to roll up and down? (for example)
There are a lot of considerations that people don't think about when they start contemplating a swap, especially a cheap swap.
See my prior post in which I start scratching the surface of how complicated it is. NONE of the customization stuff is already premade that you can buy somewhere. You literally have to R+D every single piece. How many times have you fabricated a piece of hardware and had it fit perfectly the first time? It costs money to keep re-making it until it fits right. And that's just the hardware. How good are you at building your own electronics control modules, and coding them to get everything talking together correctly? You are going to be paying somebody for something, and the costs will add up fast. A turn-key swap where they do everything for you would be $40k+.
Look at Flyin Miata. They have done dozens of LS3 swaps into Miatas, using parts that they already did the R+D on, have spares and replicas in stock, and can make them perfectly on demand as needed. Their turn-key swap costs $47,000. People that do ALL the work themselves can do the same swap for around $15,000-$20,000, ordering the parts they need and no real need to fabricate anything. That is for an engine of the same basic design that fits in the same basic location, just a bit bigger than the stock engine.
The RX-8's engine is in a location that it is physically impossible to mount any other engine there, and requires essentially re-making the entire front end of the car. How exactly will you beat that price for a more radical change in hardware, electronics, and software?
Look at Flyin Miata. They have done dozens of LS3 swaps into Miatas, using parts that they already did the R+D on, have spares and replicas in stock, and can make them perfectly on demand as needed. Their turn-key swap costs $47,000. People that do ALL the work themselves can do the same swap for around $15,000-$20,000, ordering the parts they need and no real need to fabricate anything. That is for an engine of the same basic design that fits in the same basic location, just a bit bigger than the stock engine.
The RX-8's engine is in a location that it is physically impossible to mount any other engine there, and requires essentially re-making the entire front end of the car. How exactly will you beat that price for a more radical change in hardware, electronics, and software?
02-23-2014, 09:53 PM
#57
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And there isn't a "kit"... There have been kit rumors, but no vendor has actually delivered. The closest that has been hinted was still just a subframe. No electronics, no wiring, no driveshaft, no cooling system, no oil cooling system, etc...
You really will be building everything from scratch...
So I don't know where you get the $6k number from.
You really will be building everything from scratch...
So I don't know where you get the $6k number from.
02-23-2014, 10:37 PM
#58
And there isn't a "kit"... There have been kit rumors, but no vendor has actually delivered. The closest that has been hinted was still just a subframe. No electronics, no wiring, no driveshaft, no cooling system, no oil cooling system, etc...
You really will be building everything from scratch...
So I don't know where you get the $6k number from.
You really will be building everything from scratch...
So I don't know where you get the $6k number from.
You sure sounded sure about that last statement...
02-23-2014, 11:36 PM
#60
02-24-2014, 07:38 AM
#62
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read it and weep! RX-8 LS1 ENGINE MOUNTING - * *V8 Rx8 Conversion* Kits
You sure sounded sure about that last statement...
You sure sounded sure about that last statement...
02-24-2014, 07:39 AM
#63
I don't believe a return less fuel system is a good option good that much power, you only get 'shorty' manifolds so it up to you to make the exhaust. I would be willing to bet you'll need more than a cnc trigger wheel to get all of the gauges working properly.
02-24-2014, 11:25 AM
#65
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read it and weep! RX-8 LS1 ENGINE MOUNTING - * *V8 Rx8 Conversion* Kits
You sure sounded sure about that last statement...
You sure sounded sure about that last statement...
Ok, lets assume for a minute that it IS actually available, and you won't get the hand crafted quality like this or this, and that everything will fit perfectly the first time (hint: it won't). Go ahead and prove us wrong. Trust me, you will be making a lot of people happy here.
There are dozens if not hundreds of newbies that have insisted we are wrong over the past decade, and there hasn't yet been someone that has proved us right. The only really complete LS swap pops up for sale for $69,000 from time to time, which hardly proves us wrong. A few other LS swaps where the engine runs are around, but none of them are complete. There is even an Izuzu V6 swap with charts! It's also not complete.
Talk is cheap. I should know. I've been talking about a Renesis swapped Miata for a long time, and I'd LOVE to do it. But all I can really do it talk about it, since that is free and doesn't take up garage space
I know without a shadow of a doubt that even though I've been solving for all the challenges ahead of time, it would take me over a year and be far more costly than even my inflated 'budget' expects.
Last edited by RIWWP; 02-24-2014 at 11:56 AM.
02-24-2014, 11:37 AM
#66
40th anniversary Edition
It is strange how folks buy an RX8 and don't know what they are buying before spending their money. Then they obsess about how to change it into a piston car. Why not just buy a piston car with a huge V8 if that is what you wanted in the first place. We seem to have endless discussions here on the forum about how to change these RX8s into something else. Mods are one thing but swapping in a V8 will require changing the cars structure and just about every mechanical system on the car and then you will have a mess of a car that was never designed to exist and run smoothly.
02-24-2014, 11:55 AM
#67
02-24-2014, 11:56 AM
#68
If one is going to do an LS swap, why bother with an LS-1 when you can use a newer LS?
02-24-2014, 05:23 PM
#69
It is strange how folks buy an RX8 and don't know what they are buying before spending their money. Then they obsess about how to change it into a piston car. Why not just buy a piston car with a huge V8 if that is what you wanted in the first place. We seem to have endless discussions here on the forum about how to change these RX8s into something else. Mods are one thing but swapping in a V8 will require changing the cars structure and just about every mechanical system on the car and then you will have a mess of a car that was never designed to exist and run smoothly.
02-24-2014, 06:10 PM
#70
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What makes you think he is asking $20k with only $3500 in it?
Swapped cars are consistently worth less than the amount invested, car included. So that puts his total north of $20k. Did he overspend?
Swapped cars are consistently worth less than the amount invested, car included. So that puts his total north of $20k. Did he overspend?
02-24-2014, 06:23 PM
#71
I luv how 16 yr olds ... argh omg i gotta wait till i get ma tax return blah blah blah ...
what a freaking joke.
its funny how dumbasses keep calling rx8 slow when lots of people go really fast around tracks , oh did I mention it's going faster than lots of so called "fast car"
and this noob seriously think you will get whatever u invest into the car back when u're selling the car LMAO, so I bought my car new back in 2005, I guess I can sell it for 30K , no ? LOL
what a freaking joke.
its funny how dumbasses keep calling rx8 slow when lots of people go really fast around tracks , oh did I mention it's going faster than lots of so called "fast car"
and this noob seriously think you will get whatever u invest into the car back when u're selling the car LMAO, so I bought my car new back in 2005, I guess I can sell it for 30K , no ? LOL
02-24-2014, 06:23 PM
#72
3000 for kit, 3000 for engine and trans is 6000. and turboing that is another 3-5k. so bare minimum were talking 10k into it, and these cars are roughly 10k. Do the math before you attack me man. I think 20k isnt a bad price for what it is
02-24-2014, 06:31 PM
#74
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