alphawolff

I just recently doubled my rx8 collection with a harder to find one-owner series 2 to add to my lovely '04


Doing the smart thing I got it compression checked today

R1 8.6, 7.2, 8.6
R2 8.6, 8.5, 8.6


So with so many 8s I was pretty darn happy with the results. However there's that 7.2 rotor face that's worrying me as it's such a darn huge difference between the others. It drivers just fantastic and there isn't any performance issues. Honestly I didn't think it was possible to have such a huge difference as the seal that's weaker would be showing itself on the adjacent facings and all that, unless the rotor itself has some major scaring or some such. It's just barely at the 20PSI difference maximum between facings, so I'm not sure if it counts as 'failing'


So the question I have is should I attempt to pursue a new engine under the 8/100k warranty (was delivered in 3/11, so still a half a year left) or count my blessings for all the 8's and forget about it?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

As I recall a difference of > 1 kg/cm2 is failing. Probably a side seal,

alphawolff

Interesting. The dealer said that there isn't any warranty left on it. Does the 8yr/100k not apply to series 2s?

Steve Dallas

It does apply to S2s, but sometimes you have to encourage the dealer to contact Mazda North America to verify it.

alphawolff

I actually just called mazda to confirm & send me an email so I can show the dealer in case it comes to that.

Would it be worth having this engine replaced? 8.6's are pretty solid, and I'm not sure if the difference between facings is large enough to cause issues down the road.


Thanks for everyone's replies by the way, really appreciated

Loki

iTrader: (1)

A new engine will have 8s all around, instead of 5/6 places. Either way, it's free.

alphawolff

Looked into it a bit more. It appears that 21.8PSI is the failing point for difference between rotor facings. Which is ~1.5kg/cm2. Currently have a 1.4 difference.

Is there any way to argue this point with the dealer, or will mazda simply accept it as passing?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

alpha ..... ask yourself this ...Is it really worth all the crap you are going to have to go through to get this done ? IE time without the car , constant revisits to dealer cuz they f'd up the install etc etc . Just to fix something that really isn't a problem anyway ?

I would love to have your engine any day of the week.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Just because it's free doesn't make it a good decision ! Thought you had been around long enough and seen enough of the crap people go through ?

alphawolff

I was actually thinking this exact same thing. My 04 has had a blown coolant seal for 3 years (leaks while it sits, will start rough if sat too long but doesnt burn while running) and it drives just fine. I'm sure having a BHR midpipe/sohn/premix/BHR ignition all significantly assist with it lasting so long post failure.


I'm more then apt to working on them myself, and honestly letting a dealer screw who knows what up during the install and having a lottery reman installed is a huge turn off. Especially with the other faces being so damn strong.


Real question here is what's the actual cause of the side seal failure here? Sticking spring? Worn seal clearance? I was considering giving it a good seafoam treatment followed by a good thrashing and then purchasing a rotary tester myself and compare before/after numbers. The previous owner was a female that appeared to have the oil changed every 3k, up until the main warranty expired. Then no records for 20k until it was listed for sale. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some carbon build up due since I honestly doubted it was red-lined often. Finding any specific information on side seal wear seems to be hit or miss. Best I can find is the ol' ATF treatment to assist with the sticking springs, or the design of the s1 oil ports being more for side seal cooling then apex lubrication.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

The choice isn't to replace or not to replace, the choice is replace now or replace later.

In 6 months, you will be facing the exact same situation, only now the cost of a rebuild will be several thousand more than free, and still subject to all the same risks: bad rebuild, installation errors, etc.

So if it were me, I'd try get it replaced on the expectation that the replacement engine will live longer than this one. If that bet doesn't work out, you're back to where you would be if you hadn't replaced the engine.

That said, try the seafoam and atf tricks, if it is indeed carbon, you could get that one face into the 8s and the whole conversation is moot.

alphawolff

The warranty doesn't expire until 3/4/2019, so I got a few months. I'll be doing the tricks in a few weeks once I get the tester. I'll report back with the changes if there are any for those that are curious.


Thanks for all the input everyone

Steve Dallas

Take it in 4 to 6 weeks before the warranty expires and assess the situation then. In the meantime, try the other tricks and see if things improve.


I am in a similar situation as you. The front rotor rocks, and the rear has one face that is 1.3 lower than the others. The engine exhibits zero questionable behaviors at present and pulls strong (lap times the same or improving). My warranty expires June 2019. I am very hesitant to let the dealership monkeys work on my car. At least I have another year to think about it...

neit_jnf

decarb it, it may help loosen that seal and bump compression

UnknownJinX

The S2 Service Manual says that the standard difference in chambers should be within 1.5 kg/cm^2.

OP, is your number corrected to sea level and 250 RPM cranking RPM?

Mine had mid 7s to low 8 corrected all across when I bought it a year ago.

BTW, aren't the Mazda reman builds better than what they used to be?

Steve Dallas

Mazda remans are supposed to be better, but you never know from engine to engine. You are relying on the dealership monkeys to strip your engine, install everything on the reman short block, and reinstall. And, frankly, that scares the hell out of me. I wish there was a provision in the warranty to simply trade short blocks with the parts department. Let me do my own R&R.

UnknownJinX

I hear ya. When the time comes, I will probably have a rebuilder do the work, because then you know exactly what are being replaced.

My experience with local dealers have been fine so far, but sounds like you had some trouble with yours. That said, having a shop that has good knowledge with rotaries is better than a dealer that is a "Jack of all trades, master of none".

alphawolff

Was tested using the mazda tester, which auto corrects for 250RPM. I live in Baltimore so pretty much sea level. I heard that the newer remans are nearly completely new engines. New housings, etc. They got pretty strict about it all the early reman failures, but with the last of the warranties about to expire I'm not sure how much longer they'll be keeping that quality up, or even making them at all. There was also a part shortage causing a back order these last few months, so they might've been in a rush to piece them together to get them out quicker.

For anyone who still wonders, I will be doing a de-carb on it tomorrow while I swap my BHR ignition over. I've been driving the **** out of it in the meantime, and will continue to due so before I purchase the tester here in a month or so.

For what it's worth, I'm a technician at a Jeep dealer which also owns the local Mazda dealer. We have one manager which oversees all three shops (Jeep, Mazda, and Hyundai.); since we're the most profitable of the three he has his office at our shop and is here 99% of the time. If the Mazda dealer gave me any issues I'd have a straight path to bitching about it.