XLRX8

Hi RX8Club,
A real noobie here. Just picked up my first rotary - a questionable series 1 04GT w/Auto and 112k miles. I've been reading up as much as I can on all the various issues/resolutions but am still a little confused, and with my purchase now complete, a little more nervous on how best to go forward. ;P.

The guy I picked it up from only had it for a month and didn't know much. He paid 3k and was told it only needed a fuel pump. When he took it to a dealer they "advised" that he needed a new motor because they "suspect" low compression. Here I come along with two grand burning a hole in my pocket and the rest is history...or will be. My initial plan is to learn and fix whatever is needed upto and including a rebuild. Whether I keep it or flip it to get the next fixer, I want to ensure all systems are up to snuff and I wouldn't be worried with selling it to a lady (with newly learned tribal knowledge for longevity passed along of course)

With my ignorance about rotary phenomena I am trying to error on the safe side in my approach to properly diagnosis and repair my new toy. My primary concern is tearing up the motor and creating additional costs factors such as machine work and/or new parts such as plates, housings or rotors. If my limited research is leading me right you can recheck and re-use most of the parts right? Just some expensive new apex seals and costly oring kits?? As such I only verified it starts and made the deal contingent to him delivering the auto on a tilt bed.

Question 1. Are rotarys that fragile? Do they fragment parts or just get sloppy (or carbon locked?) such that they get massive "blow by" not allowing full compression/detonation/power yet not really destructive (typically??). If so; Do people keep driving these until power has diminished to an inoperable level? ALSO will replacing other systems despite diminished compression (cat/pipe, coils, improved oiling methodology, cooling, etc) help to prolong ultimate engine failure?

STEP 1> I've now reviewed the dealer report and basically it states:
Customer complaint -> CEL & Oil Light will no go off, gas smell in engine compartment and shuts down after 20 minutes of driving.
Dealer Eval -> Pulled codes p2070, p0171 p0410, b 1342 ecu defective. Road tested for 20 minutes After engine warms up it will not start back up. Oil light stays on but guage indicates oil pressure. Checked oil and its one quart low with condensation and water getting into the oil system. Engine has no power when gas pedal is depressed all the way to the floor. Low compression is suspect recommend replacing engine for further diagnosis.


OK, WOW! They didn't even actually do a compression test! Maybe they have enough information maybe not. From my reading so far a lot of stuff could be wrong such as plugged cat or faded coils.
After reading some more on the subject it occurs that many approaches dance around compression testing. Obviously its a specialized test making what is traditionally a simple evaluation tool more difficult to obtain.


STEP 2> Even though it's the same cost as a set of coils (that could theoretically be a fix for my rig right now) I went ahead an opted to purchase the RCT-V5. (Hope it was the right choice. For me I came down to the instructions for use being printed on the overlay, KISS. Would have liked to be able to pick a color or even tell him a shirt size but whatever - it's done).


Question 2: My neurosis would no longer allow me to analyze this car without getting the tester, but for the benefit of more patient people, Is having compression results at your fingertips worth 4 bills? How valuable IS knowing compression values as related to other operational parameters?

( I've seen lowbuck redneck style compression assessment using a piston type guage and have even seen a post where one racer didn't even care what his compression happened to be at the time...he just wanted to know what systems to bolster for a street car conversion into SCCA car. )

Thanks,
xlrx8

Loki

iTrader: (1)

You can probably make money back on that tester by offering compression testing services, if there are many rotaries in your area.

But about the car: "won't restart when warmed up" is kind of a giveaway, 99% of the time it's a compression issue. People drive these until they don't start warm any more, which is where you are. It's not really practical.

Compression is everything. If someone knows what they're looking for, they will want to know the compression when buying the car. No sense in buying surprises. Though, with an 04 automatic, you might not be going after the enthusiast market.

The problem you have is that the 04 automatics came with a low-power 4 port engine, which is rarer and more expensive to find parts for (or buy already rebuilt). If you're going to attempt your own rebuild, don't assume that you can reuse all parts. In many cases the housings are not fit for reuse due to chrome damage, scoring, etc. You could get lucky or you could not. One way to find out

As for the codes:
p2070 is the SSV valve, it needs to be cleaned/unstuck, which isn't too bad.
p0171 lead condition, don't know why. Possible failed coils in one rotor so "too lean" actually means "no combustion took place".
P0410 is the air pump. Could be seized.
b1342 could be ECU or the ABS module. I wouldn't worry about this for now, see if it still says this after there is a good engine in the car. It obviously starts and runs, so there is enough ECU functionality at least for that. Actual ECU failures are suuuuuper uncommon.
I'm surprised there isn't a P0300, P0301 or P0302. Have you read the codes yourself?

Rotaries are not "fragile", but the owner needs to know what they're doing. A neglected rotary is a dead rotary, which unfortunately is the fate of many automatics.

But if your eventual goal is to flip this car, I'd caution you to cut your losses now. Rebuilding or getting that engine rebuilt + initial investment is going to put you above market for an 04 auto. You may not make more money back than if you sold it now in the condition its in -- but you'll have spent a lot more time.

XLRX8

Thanks Loki.
Yea, Can't say there wasn't some impulse involved in the purchase as I would have rather had a manual. I saw the ad and it caught my eye, I read up enough to make me dangerious and then after buying the car I started seeing the downside to my purchase. (thank God it has the GT package) The whole point of flipping it would be to repeat the process with broken rigs until i can get a series 2 6 port 6 speed convertable. (might take a while at this rate and starting with this car haha)

Well I'm kinda commited now and my curiousity won't let me stop now. Even if i can get near breaking even it will be worth the experience. Worse case is I'l keep it I guess. Still looks like a kick in the pants and i cant wait to drive it.

When I get my tester in I'll pull a reading and post an update. Meanwhile I'll start learning up on removal, teardown, inspection and overhaul.

Gravey

iTrader: (3)

Well then you might as well stop right now, there's no such thing as a convertible RX-8!

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

theres two gravey

Gravey

iTrader: (3)

Right. And they were modified that way. Point being that they did not come from the factory that way.

So you're right, he could chop the top off of any RX-8 he buys, but he isn't going to find a Series 2 convertible for sale anywhere! .... oh look at that... there's one for sale right there...

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

theres the grey one some guy cut the roof off and the white one mazda used in a parade

jamshedchhapra

Hi There, I would suggest that you should get your Rx8 Compression test, before going for any further expenditures, and also Compression testing helps to understand a little bit about the condition of Apex seals of your car. Which is among the core elements of engine compression.

XLRX8

Hi , me again.
Got my bright orange RCT-V5 (FYI I'm located in Southern Oregon and open to meeting someone whom may meet a test). I digress, I love everything about it except for what it's telling me ��

Here's the scoop:
Rear 56, 48, 65 @215
Front 62, 64, 63 @216
I've seen the results in the excel app I found on here. Looks like good face to face and rotor to rotor deltas but poor overall compression.

Per Mazda the motor was replaced June 06. Technically at about 74k right now.
Cat was also replaced then. They offered a voluntary "low compression" ECM update to, upon startup, retard the timing and inject more oil. Have a neighbor of a friend saying the old timers used to retard the timing on the old RX's and they would practically run forever.

Atkins has a master kit on eBay for 1200 and it looks like much of it can be had on their website for nearer to 800, I understand this is all speculation and you can't know till you tear it down, BUT, obviously tearing into it sooner vs later would increase my odds of NOT having issues with deal breakers like rotors, housings, etc. Is it a pipe dream to think I might pull it and only need a 160 Orpington kit and 300 apex seals?

Again who knows how long she's been on the down side...last two, three, four owners.(or one, who knows) just rodded the **** out of it until the next sucker saw it and fell in love with the full leather GT package badassness? (like me)

Now I'm toying with the idea of looking into a 6 port, 6 speed conversion, (have no idea how stupid that may sound) but if relatively feasible I could convince myself to change all the fluids, slap a cheap as I can mid pipe solution, get the Eco update and ride it out till I have another 2-3k for the "JDM" type rotor, tyranny, ECU packages and do the covers ion on a weekend (hahahahahahahah - it's taken me over a month to get this far)

At any rate I've laid out a couple of scenarios and would appreciate input band perspective.

PS my friend has appearantly named the car "Zippy" now. Hmmm
Xlrx8

XLRX8

Nevermind the R1forR2 swap...Geeze, that looks painful!!! Now to look into another type of rotary swap...maybe.. My gosh! Whose idea was this (to get into the RX8 world) anyways