Buyer remorse
02-03-2015, 10:35 AM
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Buyer remorse
OK, so I have read a lot of info on these forums, however I wish I had read this great info prior to my purchase.
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
Excellent information and I appreciate all the contributions on this forum. It is time consuming to get through so much info, but if I keep the car I will keep reading.
I really would prefer a car with less gamble on engine life and maybe this isn't the car for me.
The good news is I didn't yet spend $25-30K on a new Mazda 6. :-)
I bought my 07 (aprox. 35K miles) Touring with numerous options that led me to wonder what difference with it and GT model. I got about 270 miles of interstate driving with some cruise control and generally 70-85mph (Been a few years since I actually drove a clutch mind you) before my fuel light came on. This seems normal range so I assume the car is as good internally as it looks.
The tires are fairly new but wish original coil/wires and plugs had been changed before the $1000 tires.
The car looks really in great condition with some door dings and minor body imperfections expected. The driver seat has one mark on the leather but no cracks, tears etc.
After reading these threads I decided I either need to sell or do some work to it and then sell. I may do compression check (I am optimistic based on my mileage and operation of car on first day driving) So far I see I need to start with BHR coil/wires, improved water pump and perhaps the Sohn Adaptor as well as some of the smaller mods mentioned in sticky in new member forum.
I would like to do myself but I am not the most mechanically inclined. I do not own a shop and live in colder country with changing weather dropping to 20's tomorrow.
I do not mind investing a little for big returns. I enjoy a fun ride but even in the 8 through Denver traffic and freeway driving is little fun to me still. I look forward to a fun drive in a mountain highway and winding canyon road. However I think I want reliability over fun and sport driving, which is why I was considering the newer Mazda 6 model, but didn't want to spend that much on a new car.
So...now i am wondering if I should register and start doing work or sell my 8 that I have owned for 24 hours? hmmmm... big decisions.
Is it better to drive in 5th at 70-80mph than 6th near 4K rpm?
-I should go buy some oil...think I will start with just 5-20. I may use heavier at some point but WY is cold right now so that should be good.
Any more optimistic reports of over 100K on cars to increase my hopes? Stats are discouraging, but I question how much of that is a result of lack of understanding of needs for rotary care?
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
Excellent information and I appreciate all the contributions on this forum. It is time consuming to get through so much info, but if I keep the car I will keep reading.
I really would prefer a car with less gamble on engine life and maybe this isn't the car for me.
The good news is I didn't yet spend $25-30K on a new Mazda 6. :-)
I bought my 07 (aprox. 35K miles) Touring with numerous options that led me to wonder what difference with it and GT model. I got about 270 miles of interstate driving with some cruise control and generally 70-85mph (Been a few years since I actually drove a clutch mind you) before my fuel light came on. This seems normal range so I assume the car is as good internally as it looks.
The tires are fairly new but wish original coil/wires and plugs had been changed before the $1000 tires.
The car looks really in great condition with some door dings and minor body imperfections expected. The driver seat has one mark on the leather but no cracks, tears etc.
After reading these threads I decided I either need to sell or do some work to it and then sell. I may do compression check (I am optimistic based on my mileage and operation of car on first day driving) So far I see I need to start with BHR coil/wires, improved water pump and perhaps the Sohn Adaptor as well as some of the smaller mods mentioned in sticky in new member forum.
I would like to do myself but I am not the most mechanically inclined. I do not own a shop and live in colder country with changing weather dropping to 20's tomorrow.
I do not mind investing a little for big returns. I enjoy a fun ride but even in the 8 through Denver traffic and freeway driving is little fun to me still. I look forward to a fun drive in a mountain highway and winding canyon road. However I think I want reliability over fun and sport driving, which is why I was considering the newer Mazda 6 model, but didn't want to spend that much on a new car.
So...now i am wondering if I should register and start doing work or sell my 8 that I have owned for 24 hours? hmmmm... big decisions.
Is it better to drive in 5th at 70-80mph than 6th near 4K rpm?
-I should go buy some oil...think I will start with just 5-20. I may use heavier at some point but WY is cold right now so that should be good.
Any more optimistic reports of over 100K on cars to increase my hopes? Stats are discouraging, but I question how much of that is a result of lack of understanding of needs for rotary care?
02-03-2015, 11:18 AM
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Welcome, glad you read through it. That thread is designed to produce the 'right' reaction for each person that reads it. Some people see all of the possibile problems as challenges and quirks and 'totally worth it', others get scared away. The former are likely to be great owners with a rewarding experience, the latter probably wouldn't have been good owners, and it is better for them if they move on to a different car.
It sounds like you are probably in the latter group.
The car you have sounds like it's in pretty good condition (the mileage alone is a good indication that nothing is seriously wrong), so from that perspective it is unlikely that you have much to worry about. I would also recommend that if you do decide to sell the car, that you just put it up for sale as-is. Spending $1,000 on improving the car will get you, at best, a $500 improvement on sale price, usually not even that. You will be further in the hole financially by trying to mod it first. This is even assuming you do the work all yourself. If $500 of that $1,000 is labor, then you will be down at least $750.
Regarding oil weight, keep in mind that the first number is the 'cold' weight. The 2nd number is the hot weight, so it won't matter if you are in the tropics or the frozen tundra, a hot engine will have the same hot weight oil either way. Being really cold there only matters for the first number. It's why many of us recommend Mobile1 0w-40 to people that ask. 0w weight for the cold ambient, a thicker 40 weight for when the engine is hot, and the Mobile1 variant performs exceedingly well on RX-8 used oil analysis tests. And it's easily obtained.
Your last statement: "but I question how much of that is a result of lack of understanding of needs for rotary care?" is correct. Precisely correct. Most owners that know about the possible problems never see any of them (until the engine simply wears out). The owners that don't know about the possible problems often encounter virtually all of them. Understanding the car, and the engine, properly is critical to a good ownership experience. Not understanding it will inevitably mean that you take the wrong path and get punched in the ***** for doing so.
Good luck on your choice, and if it is to sell, then good luck on finding a car that speaks to you and your tastes and puts that smile on your face
It sounds like you are probably in the latter group.
The car you have sounds like it's in pretty good condition (the mileage alone is a good indication that nothing is seriously wrong), so from that perspective it is unlikely that you have much to worry about. I would also recommend that if you do decide to sell the car, that you just put it up for sale as-is. Spending $1,000 on improving the car will get you, at best, a $500 improvement on sale price, usually not even that. You will be further in the hole financially by trying to mod it first. This is even assuming you do the work all yourself. If $500 of that $1,000 is labor, then you will be down at least $750.
Regarding oil weight, keep in mind that the first number is the 'cold' weight. The 2nd number is the hot weight, so it won't matter if you are in the tropics or the frozen tundra, a hot engine will have the same hot weight oil either way. Being really cold there only matters for the first number. It's why many of us recommend Mobile1 0w-40 to people that ask. 0w weight for the cold ambient, a thicker 40 weight for when the engine is hot, and the Mobile1 variant performs exceedingly well on RX-8 used oil analysis tests. And it's easily obtained.
Your last statement: "but I question how much of that is a result of lack of understanding of needs for rotary care?" is correct. Precisely correct. Most owners that know about the possible problems never see any of them (until the engine simply wears out). The owners that don't know about the possible problems often encounter virtually all of them. Understanding the car, and the engine, properly is critical to a good ownership experience. Not understanding it will inevitably mean that you take the wrong path and get punched in the ***** for doing so.
Good luck on your choice, and if it is to sell, then good luck on finding a car that speaks to you and your tastes and puts that smile on your face
02-03-2015, 11:26 AM
#3
It all depends on the car...
First question, how much did you pay? And, do you have compression data?
I suggest you keep reading. You range is about right. There are ways here to make it a little better, but not a lot. That is likely a good sign. I suggest you treat any coil you did not install, or pay to have installed, as old. That is one of the key weaknesses. And, if they go, there is a cascading effect. Runs rich, fouls plugs, runs richer, fouls cat, back pressure, seals. Plugs are easy to do as well.
For example, I have an 04 GT, with 137,000 miles on it. There are about 98,000 miles on this engine. I track it several times a year. My daughter killed the transmission (on track) and my CAT went. Other than an ECU problem that is straightforward to fix (I am just not fixing it the easy way), I have never been stranded, and maintenance is occasionally changing plugs and coils. Oil is every 3,000 miles (dip stick extractor is GREAT) and I run premium fuel. My fans are programmed to come on around 185, and the car rarely goes above that temp. that might be the big win. The only time I had it towed, or was stranded, was when the release bearing exploded. I could have driven it without the clutch, but I have AAA. That was a case of "now I know what that sound was".
Look at my sig for things to do to help it live longer. Cooling was the big one for me.
First question, how much did you pay? And, do you have compression data?
I suggest you keep reading. You range is about right. There are ways here to make it a little better, but not a lot. That is likely a good sign. I suggest you treat any coil you did not install, or pay to have installed, as old. That is one of the key weaknesses. And, if they go, there is a cascading effect. Runs rich, fouls plugs, runs richer, fouls cat, back pressure, seals. Plugs are easy to do as well.
For example, I have an 04 GT, with 137,000 miles on it. There are about 98,000 miles on this engine. I track it several times a year. My daughter killed the transmission (on track) and my CAT went. Other than an ECU problem that is straightforward to fix (I am just not fixing it the easy way), I have never been stranded, and maintenance is occasionally changing plugs and coils. Oil is every 3,000 miles (dip stick extractor is GREAT) and I run premium fuel. My fans are programmed to come on around 185, and the car rarely goes above that temp. that might be the big win. The only time I had it towed, or was stranded, was when the release bearing exploded. I could have driven it without the clutch, but I have AAA. That was a case of "now I know what that sound was".
Look at my sig for things to do to help it live longer. Cooling was the big one for me.
02-03-2015, 11:37 AM
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04Green makes a point I missed.
My RX-8 was also the most reliable car I've owned, from 1yr 8,600 miles old to selling it at 113,000 5.5 years later, seeing every weather/season type other than natural disasters, driving it in 37 different states, autocrossed plenty, commuted with year round. It only stranded me once: when my clutch exploded at 89,000 and a freak chance metal shard lodged in the starter's nose preventing starter engagement. I also spent less on unexpected repairs than any other used cars I've owned (including 2 Corollas, 2 Miatas, and other Mazdas), although more on maintenance.
I really can't wait till i can get past this point in my life and go get another one.
The horror stories you hear are almost always from someone that didn't understand the car, wanting it to be something it wasn't, regardless of if that was a high powered street machine or a commuter that you can beat on and neglect without complaint.
The analogy to a high maintenance woman is very very accurate.
My RX-8 was also the most reliable car I've owned, from 1yr 8,600 miles old to selling it at 113,000 5.5 years later, seeing every weather/season type other than natural disasters, driving it in 37 different states, autocrossed plenty, commuted with year round. It only stranded me once: when my clutch exploded at 89,000 and a freak chance metal shard lodged in the starter's nose preventing starter engagement. I also spent less on unexpected repairs than any other used cars I've owned (including 2 Corollas, 2 Miatas, and other Mazdas), although more on maintenance.
I really can't wait till i can get past this point in my life and go get another one.
The horror stories you hear are almost always from someone that didn't understand the car, wanting it to be something it wasn't, regardless of if that was a high powered street machine or a commuter that you can beat on and neglect without complaint.
The analogy to a high maintenance woman is very very accurate.
02-03-2015, 12:44 PM
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FYI purchased for 10K. I am looking to start with changing coils /wires/plugs to start as well as removing the engine cover. I may run foam before plug and wire changes.
04Green, I did read your mod list earlier and may do a few of those soon also when a day of warmer weather comes, or if I take it south somewhere :-) forcing air through radiator sounds like nice simple start.
Where and how much are aluminum radiators? How long do the plastic ones last?
Thanks for info!
04Green, I did read your mod list earlier and may do a few of those soon also when a day of warmer weather comes, or if I take it south somewhere :-) forcing air through radiator sounds like nice simple start.
Where and how much are aluminum radiators? How long do the plastic ones last?
Thanks for info!
02-03-2015, 12:46 PM
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04Green makes a point I missed.
My RX-8 was also the most reliable car I've owned, from 1yr 8,600 miles old to selling it at 113,000 5.5 years later, seeing every weather/season type other than natural disasters, driving it in 37 different states, autocrossed plenty, commuted with year round. It only stranded me once: when my clutch exploded at 89,000 and a freak chance metal shard lodged in the starter's nose preventing starter engagement. I also spent less on unexpected repairs than any other used cars I've owned (including 2 Corollas, 2 Miatas, and other Mazdas), although more on maintenance.
I really can't wait till i can get past this point in my life and go get another one.
The horror stories you hear are almost always from someone that didn't understand the car, wanting it to be something it wasn't, regardless of if that was a high powered street machine or a commuter that you can beat on and neglect without complaint.
The analogy to a high maintenance woman is very very accurate.
My RX-8 was also the most reliable car I've owned, from 1yr 8,600 miles old to selling it at 113,000 5.5 years later, seeing every weather/season type other than natural disasters, driving it in 37 different states, autocrossed plenty, commuted with year round. It only stranded me once: when my clutch exploded at 89,000 and a freak chance metal shard lodged in the starter's nose preventing starter engagement. I also spent less on unexpected repairs than any other used cars I've owned (including 2 Corollas, 2 Miatas, and other Mazdas), although more on maintenance.
I really can't wait till i can get past this point in my life and go get another one.
The horror stories you hear are almost always from someone that didn't understand the car, wanting it to be something it wasn't, regardless of if that was a high powered street machine or a commuter that you can beat on and neglect without complaint.
The analogy to a high maintenance woman is very very accurate.
I prefer the High maintenance car over the woman any day, but that is me :-)
02-03-2015, 01:40 PM
#8
++
On radiators, I believe in only replacing stuff that is not working. I run mine on road courses, Roebling and Sebring. I also pull a trailer to each of those locations. The only cooling mod I did was the foam and fans on low. I then got an access port, and once the fans turned on at 185 instead of 205, I disabled fans on low. The only other cooling mod was the remedy water pump. The factory pump will cavitate above 8,000 rpm. Cavitate = no flow. Not bad for a few seconds, but I started living there as I started to suck less and less as a driver. Problem went away with the remedy pump (impeller is much better, apparently it was copied my mazda for the Series II pump). That solved my problem immediately.
There is a ton of data on Access Port like programming (mazda edit is another tool) as well as the remedy pump. Read away. I have my opinions, I will share them (or you will find them), but you need to develop opinions that are our own.
On radiators, I believe in only replacing stuff that is not working. I run mine on road courses, Roebling and Sebring. I also pull a trailer to each of those locations. The only cooling mod I did was the foam and fans on low. I then got an access port, and once the fans turned on at 185 instead of 205, I disabled fans on low. The only other cooling mod was the remedy water pump. The factory pump will cavitate above 8,000 rpm. Cavitate = no flow. Not bad for a few seconds, but I started living there as I started to suck less and less as a driver. Problem went away with the remedy pump (impeller is much better, apparently it was copied my mazda for the Series II pump). That solved my problem immediately.
There is a ton of data on Access Port like programming (mazda edit is another tool) as well as the remedy pump. Read away. I have my opinions, I will share them (or you will find them), but you need to develop opinions that are our own.
02-03-2015, 02:42 PM
#9
++
On radiators, I believe in only replacing stuff that is not working. I run mine on road courses, Roebling and Sebring. I also pull a trailer to each of those locations. The only cooling mod I did was the foam and fans on low. I then got an access port, and once the fans turned on at 185 instead of 205, I disabled fans on low. The only other cooling mod was the remedy water pump. The factory pump will cavitate above 8,000 rpm. Cavitate = no flow. Not bad for a few seconds, but I started living there as I started to suck less and less as a driver. Problem went away with the remedy pump (impeller is much better, apparently it was copied my mazda for the Series II pump). That solved my problem immediately.
There is a ton of data on Access Port like programming (mazda edit is another tool) as well as the remedy pump. Read away. I have my opinions, I will share them (or you will find them), but you need to develop opinions that are our own.
On radiators, I believe in only replacing stuff that is not working. I run mine on road courses, Roebling and Sebring. I also pull a trailer to each of those locations. The only cooling mod I did was the foam and fans on low. I then got an access port, and once the fans turned on at 185 instead of 205, I disabled fans on low. The only other cooling mod was the remedy water pump. The factory pump will cavitate above 8,000 rpm. Cavitate = no flow. Not bad for a few seconds, but I started living there as I started to suck less and less as a driver. Problem went away with the remedy pump (impeller is much better, apparently it was copied my mazda for the Series II pump). That solved my problem immediately.
There is a ton of data on Access Port like programming (mazda edit is another tool) as well as the remedy pump. Read away. I have my opinions, I will share them (or you will find them), but you need to develop opinions that are our own.
02-03-2015, 02:55 PM
#10
With fans on low, and the radiator foam, I was seeing 185 to 188 tops.
With the Cobb tune, which turned the fans on a around 184'ish, and only the radiator foam, I see about the same numbers, AC on or off.
With the Cobb tune, and the radiator foam, at the track, above 8,000 RPM, I was seeing 210.
Last trip with the Cobb tune, radiator foam, and the ReMedy pump, I did not get out of the 180's.
IMHO, there is plenty of radiator for an NA Renesis. IFF, the fans come on (factory set point is like 205) AND the foam is there to keep engine compartment air from getting back in front of the radiator.
FI, is a different matter, I have no experience there. I know people who pushed close to 400 HP. Look up OldDragger on this forum. The developed solid cooling solutions.
With the Cobb tune, which turned the fans on a around 184'ish, and only the radiator foam, I see about the same numbers, AC on or off.
With the Cobb tune, and the radiator foam, at the track, above 8,000 RPM, I was seeing 210.
Last trip with the Cobb tune, radiator foam, and the ReMedy pump, I did not get out of the 180's.
IMHO, there is plenty of radiator for an NA Renesis. IFF, the fans come on (factory set point is like 205) AND the foam is there to keep engine compartment air from getting back in front of the radiator.
FI, is a different matter, I have no experience there. I know people who pushed close to 400 HP. Look up OldDragger on this forum. The developed solid cooling solutions.
02-03-2015, 04:22 PM
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It all depends on the car...
First question, how much did you pay? And, do you have compression data?
I suggest you keep reading. You range is about right. There are ways here to make it a little better, but not a lot. That is likely a good sign. I suggest you treat any coil you did not install, or pay to have installed, as old. That is one of the key weaknesses. And, if they go, there is a cascading effect. Runs rich, fouls plugs, runs richer, fouls cat, back pressure, seals. Plugs are easy to do as well.
For example, I have an 04 GT, with 137,000 miles on it. There are about 98,000 miles on this engine. I track it several times a year. My daughter killed the transmission (on track) and my CAT went. Other than an ECU problem that is straightforward to fix (I am just not fixing it the easy way), I have never been stranded, and maintenance is occasionally changing plugs and coils. Oil is every 3,000 miles (dip stick extractor is GREAT) and I run premium fuel. My fans are programmed to come on around 185, and the car rarely goes above that temp. that might be the big win. The only time I had it towed, or was stranded, was when the release bearing exploded. I could have driven it without the clutch, but I have AAA. That was a case of "now I know what that sound was".
Look at my sig for things to do to help it live longer. Cooling was the big one for me.
First question, how much did you pay? And, do you have compression data?
I suggest you keep reading. You range is about right. There are ways here to make it a little better, but not a lot. That is likely a good sign. I suggest you treat any coil you did not install, or pay to have installed, as old. That is one of the key weaknesses. And, if they go, there is a cascading effect. Runs rich, fouls plugs, runs richer, fouls cat, back pressure, seals. Plugs are easy to do as well.
For example, I have an 04 GT, with 137,000 miles on it. There are about 98,000 miles on this engine. I track it several times a year. My daughter killed the transmission (on track) and my CAT went. Other than an ECU problem that is straightforward to fix (I am just not fixing it the easy way), I have never been stranded, and maintenance is occasionally changing plugs and coils. Oil is every 3,000 miles (dip stick extractor is GREAT) and I run premium fuel. My fans are programmed to come on around 185, and the car rarely goes above that temp. that might be the big win. The only time I had it towed, or was stranded, was when the release bearing exploded. I could have driven it without the clutch, but I have AAA. That was a case of "now I know what that sound was".
Look at my sig for things to do to help it live longer. Cooling was the big one for me.
02-03-2015, 05:17 PM
#12
You gonna eat that?
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02-03-2015, 06:31 PM
#13
With fans on low, and the radiator foam, I was seeing 185 to 188 tops.
With the Cobb tune, which turned the fans on a around 184'ish, and only the radiator foam, I see about the same numbers, AC on or off.
With the Cobb tune, and the radiator foam, at the track, above 8,000 RPM, I was seeing 210.
Last trip with the Cobb tune, radiator foam, and the ReMedy pump, I did not get out of the 180's.
IMHO, there is plenty of radiator for an NA Renesis. IFF, the fans come on (factory set point is like 205) AND the foam is there to keep engine compartment air from getting back in front of the radiator.
FI, is a different matter, I have no experience there. I know people who pushed close to 400 HP. Look up OldDragger on this forum. The developed solid cooling solutions.
With the Cobb tune, which turned the fans on a around 184'ish, and only the radiator foam, I see about the same numbers, AC on or off.
With the Cobb tune, and the radiator foam, at the track, above 8,000 RPM, I was seeing 210.
Last trip with the Cobb tune, radiator foam, and the ReMedy pump, I did not get out of the 180's.
IMHO, there is plenty of radiator for an NA Renesis. IFF, the fans come on (factory set point is like 205) AND the foam is there to keep engine compartment air from getting back in front of the radiator.
FI, is a different matter, I have no experience there. I know people who pushed close to 400 HP. Look up OldDragger on this forum. The developed solid cooling solutions.
And when you say "radiator foam" do you mean the stock setup or did you redo it all and seal up all the gaps ?
Last edited by Brettus; 02-03-2015 at 06:56 PM.
02-03-2015, 06:46 PM
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02-03-2015, 07:29 PM
#15
Also, I wouldn't call the Mazmart impeller "better" it's just designed for a different type of driving. If the car is being tracked, get it, if it's a DD you won't see any benefit over stock. It also doesn't resemble the SII water pump in any way that could be considered a copy.
02-03-2015, 07:49 PM
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the presence or lack of the engine cover does nothing for airflow or heat. Think about where it is with the hood shut... up against it. Does putting a sheet of hard plastic against a sheet of insulation have some tiny additional insulation? Perhaps, but if so it's rather trivial.
There is no airflow through the hood there anyway, so the air underneath is flowing parallel to the hood, if it's moving at all. The cover or not doesn't change that.
There is no airflow through the hood there anyway, so the air underneath is flowing parallel to the hood, if it's moving at all. The cover or not doesn't change that.
02-03-2015, 08:19 PM
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There's an old theory that it changes the underhood airflow, but that's most likely wrong. It's not necessary.
Also, I wouldn't call the Mazmart impeller "better" it's just designed for a different type of driving. If the car is being tracked, get it, if it's a DD you won't see any benefit over stock. It also doesn't resemble the SII water pump in any way that could be considered a copy.
Also, I wouldn't call the Mazmart impeller "better" it's just designed for a different type of driving. If the car is being tracked, get it, if it's a DD you won't see any benefit over stock. It also doesn't resemble the SII water pump in any way that could be considered a copy.
edited to add: How time consuming complicated is pump change? May not be a priority for me now at this point.
Last edited by Article1Section8; 02-03-2015 at 08:21 PM.
02-03-2015, 08:25 PM
#18
@ Brettus,
Foam is filling all the gaps. At slow speeds, the fans pull more air into the engine compartment, through the radiator, that can easily escape. It just kinds of leaks out the bottom (hot air does not like to go down, wheel wells or any gaps). There are a crap load of gaps around the radiator and where stuff passes through. I used pipe insulator foam, a whole $10 worth, to plug every gap. I went from overheating in traffic, to sitting in a freshly paved parking lot for 20 minutes with no issues a week later. Both events had the AC on, so the fans were on high. If you add fans on low to the mix, life is wonderful.
@ Leggot. Yeah, on the street, the OE pump is fine. But, if you stay above 7,500 RPM for more than a few seconds, not so much.
Foam is filling all the gaps. At slow speeds, the fans pull more air into the engine compartment, through the radiator, that can easily escape. It just kinds of leaks out the bottom (hot air does not like to go down, wheel wells or any gaps). There are a crap load of gaps around the radiator and where stuff passes through. I used pipe insulator foam, a whole $10 worth, to plug every gap. I went from overheating in traffic, to sitting in a freshly paved parking lot for 20 minutes with no issues a week later. Both events had the AC on, so the fans were on high. If you add fans on low to the mix, life is wonderful.
@ Leggot. Yeah, on the street, the OE pump is fine. But, if you stay above 7,500 RPM for more than a few seconds, not so much.
02-03-2015, 08:32 PM
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@ Brettus,
Foam is filling all the gaps. At slow speeds, the fans pull more air into the engine compartment, through the radiator, that can easily escape. It just kinds of leaks out the bottom (hot air does not like to go down, wheel wells or any gaps). There are a crap load of gaps around the radiator and where stuff passes through. I used pipe insulator foam, a whole $10 worth, to plug every gap. I went from overheating in traffic, to sitting in a freshly paved parking lot for 20 minutes with no issues a week later. Both events had the AC on, so the fans were on high. If you add fans on low to the mix, life is wonderful.
@ Leggot. Yeah, on the street, the OE pump is fine. But, if you stay above 7,500 RPM for more than a few seconds, not so much.
Foam is filling all the gaps. At slow speeds, the fans pull more air into the engine compartment, through the radiator, that can easily escape. It just kinds of leaks out the bottom (hot air does not like to go down, wheel wells or any gaps). There are a crap load of gaps around the radiator and where stuff passes through. I used pipe insulator foam, a whole $10 worth, to plug every gap. I went from overheating in traffic, to sitting in a freshly paved parking lot for 20 minutes with no issues a week later. Both events had the AC on, so the fans were on high. If you add fans on low to the mix, life is wonderful.
@ Leggot. Yeah, on the street, the OE pump is fine. But, if you stay above 7,500 RPM for more than a few seconds, not so much.
Not sure if it matters still if done with or without cover.
02-03-2015, 09:19 PM
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02-03-2015, 09:27 PM
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It's all about pressure differentials
Higher pressure on one side of the radiator than the other means that air will flow through the radiator from the high side to the low side. When moving, the movement of the car increases pressure in front, helping air to move through. When the fans turn on, they aren't actually 'pulling air through', they are sharply dropping the air pressure between the fans and the radiator, which then prompts movement from the high pressure side (in front) to the low pressure side (behind).
When not moving, the only consideration in play is that you want to make sure that the fan's low pressure zone can ONLY be filled by air coming through the radiator, which means proper shrouding/sealing.
When moving, the primary concern is making sure that all of the air that is coming at the radiator is properly building pressure in front of it. If there is a lack of ducting or sealing, then the air has to pressurize the entire engine bay... which means that the pressure behind the radiator is going to be nearly that of the pressure in front of the radiator, so not much airflow will actually be making it through the radiator. Even if there is proper ducting the air going through the radiator does start to pressurize the engine bay, so the better you can vent that pressure the more effective the radiator will be.
Etc...
If you think of all heat, airflow, and liquid management in terms of pressure differences, something with high pressure moving in the direction of low pressure and that movement being leveraged, you can see the reason behind a lot of car decisions. Pretty much every non-electronic component or system on any car works on the basis of higher pressure vs lower pressure. Pressure of the air in the tires vs the pressure of the car against them. Pressure of one transmission gear against another. Pressure of combustion vs the evacuated low pressure on the expansion cycle of the preceeding face. Pressure of the fuel vs the air pressure it is being injected into. Etc... Even bolt torque is just pressure.
Higher pressure on one side of the radiator than the other means that air will flow through the radiator from the high side to the low side. When moving, the movement of the car increases pressure in front, helping air to move through. When the fans turn on, they aren't actually 'pulling air through', they are sharply dropping the air pressure between the fans and the radiator, which then prompts movement from the high pressure side (in front) to the low pressure side (behind).
When not moving, the only consideration in play is that you want to make sure that the fan's low pressure zone can ONLY be filled by air coming through the radiator, which means proper shrouding/sealing.
When moving, the primary concern is making sure that all of the air that is coming at the radiator is properly building pressure in front of it. If there is a lack of ducting or sealing, then the air has to pressurize the entire engine bay... which means that the pressure behind the radiator is going to be nearly that of the pressure in front of the radiator, so not much airflow will actually be making it through the radiator. Even if there is proper ducting the air going through the radiator does start to pressurize the engine bay, so the better you can vent that pressure the more effective the radiator will be.
Etc...
If you think of all heat, airflow, and liquid management in terms of pressure differences, something with high pressure moving in the direction of low pressure and that movement being leveraged, you can see the reason behind a lot of car decisions. Pretty much every non-electronic component or system on any car works on the basis of higher pressure vs lower pressure. Pressure of the air in the tires vs the pressure of the car against them. Pressure of one transmission gear against another. Pressure of combustion vs the evacuated low pressure on the expansion cycle of the preceeding face. Pressure of the fuel vs the air pressure it is being injected into. Etc... Even bolt torque is just pressure.
Last edited by RIWWP; 02-03-2015 at 09:31 PM.
02-06-2015, 12:04 PM
#23
Great info here. I might start looking into foaming and radiators more as i start to get into tracking/drifting more. Sitting at higher rpms. As well as monitoring exact engine temp with a guage to help. I for one as a lurker really appreciate all of your technical and longer answers, so much appreciation to you guys.
02-06-2015, 04:49 PM
#24
Adding to RIWWP
"When not moving, the only consideration in play is that you want to make sure that the fan's low pressure zone can ONLY be filled by air coming through the radiator, which means proper shrouding/sealing"
And you want to make damn sure that the air coming through the radiator has NOT already been through the radiator before. This is what the foam does. At idle, without the pressure benefit you get from moving, and no foam, enough air can recycle around the radiator to create an issue.
"When not moving, the only consideration in play is that you want to make sure that the fan's low pressure zone can ONLY be filled by air coming through the radiator, which means proper shrouding/sealing"
And you want to make damn sure that the air coming through the radiator has NOT already been through the radiator before. This is what the foam does. At idle, without the pressure benefit you get from moving, and no foam, enough air can recycle around the radiator to create an issue.
02-21-2015, 07:00 PM
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Thank you
FYI, I have my new plugs, coils and wires waiting to be installed.
I just ordered Sohn Adaptor kit from ebay, likely another member of this forum.
ghandif15 | eBay
I like the 1.5qt reservoir for the 2 cycle, but not sure about the small washer fluid capacity. However the Kit seems well worth the investment, even though I have read debates suggesting premix may be better as OMP doesn't give even distribution?
Also I swapped out my trunk lite with an LED I found at WalMart. It is brighter, especially with the dome removed which seems less needed with the LEd compared to the more fragile incandescent bulb. I am approaching 36K miles, and intend to have adaptor installed, plugs. coils and wires and then change to Synthetic Oil. I also intend to install some LED reverse lights, likely the 60Watt Cree 1300 Lumen ones. However I wish the newer 80W ones would fit. The stock lights are not very helpful and I could barely notice if they were on.
As for the foam around the radiator I decided to put that on hold for a few weeks at least. Weather isn't that warm yet.
I just ordered Sohn Adaptor kit from ebay, likely another member of this forum.
ghandif15 | eBay
I like the 1.5qt reservoir for the 2 cycle, but not sure about the small washer fluid capacity. However the Kit seems well worth the investment, even though I have read debates suggesting premix may be better as OMP doesn't give even distribution?
Also I swapped out my trunk lite with an LED I found at WalMart. It is brighter, especially with the dome removed which seems less needed with the LEd compared to the more fragile incandescent bulb. I am approaching 36K miles, and intend to have adaptor installed, plugs. coils and wires and then change to Synthetic Oil. I also intend to install some LED reverse lights, likely the 60Watt Cree 1300 Lumen ones. However I wish the newer 80W ones would fit. The stock lights are not very helpful and I could barely notice if they were on.
As for the foam around the radiator I decided to put that on hold for a few weeks at least. Weather isn't that warm yet.
Last edited by Article1Section8; 02-21-2015 at 07:04 PM.