Druzidel

Finally got the baby home (3am) and I'm too excited not to make an account and immediate post..

I'm gonna be combing over the forums all this week to make sure this wonderful relationship starts off on the right foot.. beautiful machine.



Any and all suggestions are welcome, but I will be checking the stickies first (already have for some..). A few things I noticed on the ride home.. she doesn't seem to like idling at full stop much, every now and then the RPMs drop a bit and she shakes. The other is a squeaky clutch pedal/assembly. I've heard about some of the defects in this area. The extended 8-year 100k warranty is still in effect. If I remember right, the assembly is covered along with the engine?

Cheers and see you guys around!

D


Updates:

[9/13] BARO voltage test (Bulletin No. 01-014/08)..
[9/23] Compression test completed..
[10/8] More pictures, added Flex grounding kit..

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

Welcome aboard! If you have not done so, you can start by reading the first few pages in these helpful threads:

Congratulations, you got an 8!
New and Potential Owners START HERE!
Suffering a misfire, START HERE!

hoosier1104

iTrader: (2)

The internal engine components are covered only. As far as assembly is concerned, I do not think that is covered.

Posted From RX8Club.com Android App

monchie

Welcome to the club Druzidel, you have the best color for the rx8, and good luck with it.

Druzidel

Thanks guys!

@monchie, couldn't agree more! Beautiful complexion..

I've been getting steadily increasing butterflies in my stomach whenever I go out for a drive... is this normal?

monchie

Yeah, that's normal when you drive an rx8...

Druzidel

Man, I'm just now realizing how little I know about the Rotary Underground.. mechanically and socially(you psychopaths, you. ). So much to absorb, so little time. :P Still a bit nervous about tinkering with the engine.. I've built up this 'sensitive' image of it in my head, but I suppose comfort comes with time like anything else.

I'm not really the talkative type, but I'm looking for useful ways to get above the 10-post limit so I can hit the regional forum and hook up with the locals. Guess I can start with some more details, pictures and impressions of the princess here..?

Impressions first then..

Approaching the one-month mark now on the 11th and it's been daily driving mostly, but I do go out of my way to visit more open, less patrolled areas and let her sing for nearly all of our outings. I don't know if there is any difference between redlining in gear vs. neutral, but the latter is less fun and unnatural so naturally I prefer the former. I'm still learning sounds and mannerisms of the machine. There are a few that raise an eyebrow. An example: When I first fire up the engine in the morning, I hear something that sounds like a band-saw cutting through wood. For a while I thought it actually was one of my neighbors using a saw, but after a few mornings of hearing it exactly after firing up the engine I finally caught on. I haven't noticed it while driving or idling at lights however. Not only for this particular sound, but in general I've made it a point to cut the music and pay attention for at least the first few minutes of each outing; and of course the redlining--more for pleasure than information there though. I've contacted the previous owner to get a bit more information and he's been very accommodating and encouraging. Ryan B. of Utah, if you see this, thank you once again.. probably won't be the last time we talk. The car is in fantastic shape, judging from what I've experienced so far. I've also had it looked at by the local Mazda dealership which has a few rotary-heads running around the shop. Plugs, wires and coils are all good and they mentioned that a compression test was unnecessary, but that is a question I pass on to you guys. I'm unsure if there are any specific tells at ~74k miles(no previous problems) that might warrant a compression test; or if it is something that would be considered mandatory at this point?

Cosmetically I'm not looking to turn it into a show car. I plan to drive it in winter so my first order of business is to look into some new wheels for the Potenzas so that I can put a winter set onto the stocks. Or maybe just convert the stock set this winter and look into a new set for the Potenzas next year.. we'll see. I'd like to stick to the white, but I'm not completely against going dark. Depends on the look. Any recommendations and examples are welcome--I don't have any formal preferences right now, other than the white color. There are a few scratches on the body that I'm looking into repairing myself, but if a body kit comes into play I might just roll it all into one job and let one of my buddies loose on it.. I know he won't rip me off.

I'll work on some more pictures as I go forward. She's a 2006, 74,400 miles young, for the curious.

The 8 is a thrilling drive and any anxieties I previously held about mechanical troubles while first considering one have already been outweighed by this sentiment.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, redlining in neutral just generates heat without any purpose. The "redline" usage we push is in gear at full throttle.

A compression test is never mandatory, however be prepared to live with the consequences of not knowing. Time and time and time again new owners show up loving the car that they just purchased days, weeks, or even a couple months ago, but aren't sure why they are having problems. Then the shoe drops that they bought a rotary without a compression test and are up a creek with no recourse. Does it mean every used RX-8 is failing? of course not. But I wouldn't be able to sleep at night not knowing for sure. New owners simply don't have "normal" experience with the car to really know if everything is normal or not. What feels great to them might actually be down 40hp with a failing ignition, and a nearly dead engine.
Even if I believe the engine to be fine and under warranty coverage, I would still get one done just to set the baseline for "this is where it was when I bought it" in case you need to make that warranty claim later on.

17" wheels are preferred for a winter set. Cheaper rubber, softer sidewall, you can get narrower wheels/tires, etc... OEM wheels from other Mazdas are easy and cheap to get. Mazda6, Mazda3, Mazda5, CX-7, CX-5, etc... All share the same lug pattern.


The difficulties and problems that we constantly highlight are more things you have to be aware of. Being aware of them and prepared for them will mean that you probably won't ever deal with them, and if you do it will be trivial. It's when people have no idea what they are getting into that they show up with a vengeance and start disemboweling bank accounts and emotions.

Druzidel

Fair point! I'm guilty of not diving into the details sooner, and I'd be lying if I said this purchase was thoroughly planned. It happened much sooner than expected, but it was a deal I could not pass up. Worth the risk, but as you pointed out, a compression test would probably shed some light on just how big that risk is/was. The dealer did not have the means to perform one, in-house or out, but its previous owner and maintenance history were encouraging enough.

I'm sure there are some threads here that explain the full scope of a compression test and what to expect from the dealer so I'll start there. They mentioned that it would cost "a couple of hundred at least," but I never got an actual number. Any ballpark amounts? These guys are the only Mazda dealership in town so they can probably charge whatever they want. Might have to see if there are any third-party sources available, but I'm not holding my breath.

Gotcha, I'll have to look into this over the next few weeks. I suppose powder coating the stock wheels is an option instead of spending on a new summer set. I like them, just not the color. :P

Sound advice, working on it.

Appreciate the response!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Take a peek at post #9 in the new owner's thread

Druzidel

So I took it in for a compression test, but did not get what I was expecting. They performed the vacuum test (Bulletin 01-014/08) and then sent the numbers to Mazda which returned a 'no' on the engine replacement. So it passes by their standards, which is some measure of good news I suppose.

Are there multiple methods that they consider 'compression' tests because I thought I was pretty clear when I explained that I'm looking for compression values for each face of each rotor along with the RPM at which the test is performed. I'm not too miffed since their time and equipment were covered under warranty, but I would guess that a compression test as described in RIWWP's thread falls outside the warranty and is something the driver is responsible for? And I'm totally OK with that, but is there a specific name for it? I don't know if they're just dodging me(why would they?) or have no idea what I was asking for.. either scenario worries me a little though. I plan to give them a call tomorrow morning to clear things up and see if I should be looking for a different dealership.

They gave me two numbers: 3.61 and 1.75 volts. I found this thread which includes a chart relating baro to psi, but I'm still in the dark.. do the numbers say anything useful at all?

Druzidel

I had the appropriate compression test done today and here are the original results along with a normalized set if anyone would care to give me a sanity check.. pretty sure I did it right [via post #8].

Mazda chart..


RIWWP's chart..


Judging by how the car has been driving I was expecting higher results.

They let me hang around the shop during the test and showed me how it's done, nice guys. I snapped some pictures, as well as a short video of the second rotor crank that I'll post as soon as I get a chance. I'll see if I can take some video footage of the 8 this weekend so you guys can see and hear a few things--specific requests are welcome. I was thinking a cold & hot start, hot idle, and maybe a little test drive as well.

What kind of crank RPMs should be expected from a healthy starter?

Cheers guys and thanks for the nudge to actually get this done RIWWP.. amazing what a false sense of security can do.
D

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

288rpm is very healthy for a starter. Your dots on my chart appear to be incorrect?

5 of your 6 faces are generally considered to be headed toward failure. That 5.8 fails on every chart. It's a pretty severe drop compared to the other 2 faces on rotor 1, so at a guess I'd say you have a side seal problem for that face.

It looks like you should still be in warranty with a 2006 and 74k, what did the dealer say about the test results?

Druzidel

I converted the normalized kPa values to PSI and plotted them on your chart. They landed on the right kgf/cm2 values so I figured it was good.

They didn't normalize the results, but looking at the raw 282/288 numbers the tech agreed that they are way too low. He didn't mention anything about replacing/rebuilding the engine though, only that I should look into my warranty. I don't know how familiar they are with the process.. 8's are not that common out here and I'm sure competent owners even less so. In retrospect I should've asked, but I can give the guy a call. I'm guessing they want me to make the first move.

My main question now would be how likely is Mazda to approve a rebuild with these numbers? And how much do the BARO voltages [1.75 & 3.61], which are passing numbers according to the tech that performed the test, hurt the case?

The warranty start date was September of 2006, giving me another 12 months; but I'd rather the engine gets fixed before any irreversible damage is done by waiting for a complete or near-complete failure.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

This is the section I'm referring to that is converted to kgf/cm2
That 5.8 is failing on every chart.


Hmm, if your Baro passed, you are going to have a tough sell. The dealers that don't even do the Baro test typically will submit a warranty claim just on the compression numbers. If they did the Baro test, then they probably use that as a basis for pass/fail more-so than the compression (it's happened occasionally).


I just re-read. I have no idea what I was reading before. I see you say this:
So yeah, you are out of luck for the moment for a replacement engine. Definitely take it back for another one in 6 months or at least a month or so before the warranty is up at the absolute latest. I had an engine that failed compression but passed Baro, and they did a decarb treatment on it and subsequent compression tests showed increasing compression. I don't know if that might be a solution for you, but it's worth considering.

And no, I have never found anything that satisfies my lack of knowledge regarding what the Baro test is actually testing, under what conditions can it change, how it applies to the engine health, etc...

Druzidel

Ahhhh yes... I was using the PSI and kgf/cm2 numbers that are in the grey on the far left and projecting it over to the right. They would be correct in the 260 column, whoops lol.

Here's the new one.. https://i.imgur.com/I3aooXj.jpg (Gonna change it up top, thanks.)

I believe they used their engine cleaner spray as part of the BARO test, but I'm not sure if that counts as a full decarb treatment?

Either way, damn.

They only charged me 60 bucks for the compression test so I'll plan on doing one every 3 months or so to get an idea of how quickly the seals are going.. but they can definitely expect a fight when I get within the last few months of the warranty, assuming the engine even lasts that long.

Is it possible to correlate BARO and kgf/cm2 results for a rough estimate of where the values might fall? I suppose normalization would be one of the problems..


Quick warranty question: I was going to install a flex grounding kit this weekend.. how sensitive is Mazda to aftermarket additions/mods, even small ones?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I wish I could answer that BARO question. It's been an unsolved question in my head for a long time.

Here is the text from the documentation about it:
Highlight is mine. ZERO information how this is correlated to engine health. Some theory, but nothing concrete.


As for the mods, it depends on the dealer. Most dealers will ignore small stuff, but give you hassle about the bigger stuff. Some dealers will throw a fit over stuff that can't possibly matter, and some dealers will ignore huge changes.

A grounding kit shouldn't matter as long as it's done cleanly. Make it look messy and you might get hassled about it.

Druzidel

Picture time!


^ You can almost eat off of it..










^ The red dreads..


^ Rotor #1


^ Rotor #2, short video:



Added the Flex kit last weekend..







Resistance dropped from 1.9 and 1.7 for the throttle body and alternator respectively to 0.1 for both. I was expecting the chassis number to go down at least a little bit, but it didn't budge from the original 0.8. Readings were taken with a Fluke multimeter.

I'm definitely noticing a smoother idle and throttle response. Every once in a while I get the feeling that the RPMs want to drop, but they no longer do. Quality product, kudos to Chris for including an extra wire! Easy and worthwhile install.