TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The koolaid force is strong with this one ....

RotaryTherapy

iTrader: (1)

I know of at least 10 people who followed the "instructions, instructions" to the letter. And still remained left on videocall for 4 hours when he said 5 min, without a tune, unfinished tune, or hoax tune (stock map, only fans and omp rates touched). I know there's more, haven't spoken to them yet, but they're there.

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

I think MM's mistake was selling Cobb with a guaranteed tune ... he just went in over his head

RotaryTherapy

iTrader: (1)

Emailing a hoax tune while convincing the customer that it is indeed tuned after several datalogs emails is completely utterly unacceptable.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You know this how? Unless you are looking at the ROMS directly the maps are locked??

oltmann

The .ptm files can be viewed fairly easily with a debugger, they are left decrypted in memory.
I have reviewed the tune MM did for my car, and it was pretty simple. Just fuel tables, and the low end of the MAF scale. He didn't alter the cool dwell, though I did ask him to.

Overall, it worked pretty well.

However, I will never go with a closed-source tuning solution again. The problems of closed-source DRMd software solutions become much less academic and very much more practical when they are applied to a car that you intend to keep for years or maybe decades.

You subject yourself to the vagaries of companies which are unstable by their very nature. They are, after all, in a business model based on copyright infringement.

oltmann

Oh, also, a number of shops have tuning solutions that use the chips background debug mode. Piasini makes these, but you can buy clones from China for $400-1000.

Those will let you dump a rom even if it has been "locked" by an Accessport.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Interesting thread diversion . Funny how things come out over time in the oddest of places ....

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The only infringement was unveiling the supposed wizard behind the curtain ...

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

explains why MM was so uptight about locking maps?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Funny..not sure what you guys thought that he was doing

I watched him tune a number of times and talked to him about what he does......what else should he be doing really....altering the MAF, Fuel tables and tweeking a few other small things is what a basic tune entails for these cars NA. The closer the MAF and injectors are to the "stock" ideal..the less that would have to be done to get it to where it should be ( or could be..depending on what you want )

Turbo...things are a bit more complicated...and understanding how the tables interrelate and what actually happens when you change things is more difficult to understand

I think that those of us that do DIY...have a bit better understanding..if you can't even be bothered to play with it yourself then you really don't have a reason to be commenting on anything

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

I agree with you ... but at least N/A there should be some marginal power to be gained by altering ignition timing, although that is hard to do if you cannot see/feel the engine run in person

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I think if you look at it, compared to what Mazda has done in the past, and the way the port timing is in the Renesis...that the OEM tune is running some quite agressive timing

There is no way that Jeff's tuning service is the same as getting the car tuned individually on a dyno.....and I'm sure he would be the first one to tell you that.

I am of the mind that you get what you pay for....and in most instances, given the idiosyncracies of the tuner and the limitations of the Cobb the small tweeks that alter the parameters of the tune to lean out the top end, line up the MAF and injectors, and change the fans and MOP output gives a nice improvement to a stock car

oltmann

I was referring mainly to Cobb and similar companies. Arguably, everything they do is an unlicensed derivative work and not copyrightable. That part may also be true for tunes. Also, many tuning companies seem to acquire info from insiders at the oem. Reverse-engineering is, within constraints, legal. Misappropriation of trade secrets is not.

However, that is all speculation about gray areas in law from a totally unqualified individual.

Distributing rom images -- which have copyright notices from Hitachi and Denso in them... Well, I don't need to be a lawyer to know that ain't okay. It probably isn't even necessary, but Cobb chose to do it.

redline86

iTrader: (7)

The problem is the lack of tuners in certain locations that actually know how to tune a rotary and can write maps for the accessport.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

A tuner does not need to be in your location Although if the car is turboed or supercharged it is extremely important that there is someone able to work on the car that has a good understanding of how it all works and is able to correct any issues through the tuning process .

redline86

iTrader: (7)

That is true but thats how MM has survived. If you want a new accessport, well then you have to buy it from him. If you don't have a cobb tuner in your state who can tune a rx8, well then he is the only one who is publicly offering a tuning service on the web. He has the monopoly on the market.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

NA tuning is incredibly easy, dealing with people who need their hand held 100% of the time and yet still can't follow the most basic instructions or procedure is the hard part

I've done it for a few people for free, but in general I figure it's not worth the aggravation even if they paid

.

Blacknightz

what ?!!!! u can do the tune ?!!! why didnt u tell me ?!!! Lolz...


i can follow instructions well and pay just as well...

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

and even better, it's not locked and it doesn't need to be because there really aren't any secrets and it being optimized to your particular vehicle likely won't apply to any other. That's all you are really doing with an NA car; optimizing it for your particular vehicle. The only reason to lock it is to enslave the owner to your services or otherwise imply that there is voodoo in there when there isn't.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Exactly what I was thinking. I have never seen one of the rom's, but I don't expect that Cobb came up with their own software encryption, especially one that has to run on the AP.

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

I've been VERY tempted to reverse engineer the cobbs basic operation. I just haven't had time to mess with it. run a go between to read the packets with the ECU to control the push / pull of the rom, and you're well on your way to a simple phone app that can retune your ECU like a cobb without all the secrecy. Maybe one day I'll have enough free time to experiment.

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

^sign me up

RotaryTherapy

iTrader: (1)

^You already have an AP lol

stinksause

iTrader: (5)

reverse engineering could prove very beneficial for a huge number of other reasons