DreRX8

Like I said--if you want to put faith in them go right ahead--I'll go straight to the forums and hear the owners first hand. Besides--you are speaking in general terms--what is the exact sample size, standard deviation, et al? And manufactures 'don't use those' they conduct their own. I put more faith in the long term test that magazines conduct than those 1/2 *** JD and Consumer reports--they don't even specify the exact issues in problem areas. So lets say I follow these surveys--they still only give the most generalized report on a vehicle. 2 stars for interior quality--what does that mean? It means the interior sucks? Does the seat fall out? Those studies are sub par. You can get more accurate information from using your own descretion and talking to owners first hand. The buck doesn't stop at those surveys. And yes I'll take my sample size over those surveys (that don't report their sample size or any other survey criterion). I feel where you are coming from--but those surveys don't tell enough info to be credible.

dwynne

A lot of 'vette folks are funny, they swear AT the cars and swear BY the cars. Strange, huh?

You ask THEM if you should buy one and most will say yes. If you listen to them complain about all the problems and the crummy dealers and the lack of support from GM you would wonder why.

In this case, at least the current owner is known - did he take care of the care and not rag it out? It is his brother so he should know.

I think it just comes down to is mospeed really wants a 'vette or not and if the insurance company says it is reasonable for him to do it.

I don't think you could have talked ME out of getting my 'vette before I got it. Once I had it and started having lots of troubles, then it was like "oh, I see". But I have owned one now, so I have had that experience. If that is what mospeed wants, then go for it (but we warned you). He could have it a long time and have 0 problems with it.

To me, it was fun to have a large V-8 with 345hp (C5) or 394 (M5) but that thrill is single dimentional. You romp on the throttle and the car goes NOW. But in the end I find that driving the car and rowing the gears is more rewarding. Having something ligher and agile is just more fun the other 99% of the time I was not romping on the go pedal.

I find it ironic the the V-8 'vette will probably get BETTER mileage than mospeed is getting now, both city and highway! The tall 6th makes for cheap cruising at speed.

Dennis

mospeed

Thanks for bringing the topic back into what the thread I started was about...

but yeah, insurance is not an issue, and yes the car has been taken care of since ~20K miles... not sure about the first owner.

but thanks everyone.. :D This also comes down to WHEN my brother finds his perfect C6. he is particular about the options he wants. Z51, 6spd, convertible, blue, navi. by the time he finds it he may have 100K miles on the vette.

didn't even think about the better MPG! at $2.45 / gal here in TX for 93 octane... the 12-15mpg RX8 is not helping. my brother did tell me he is getting near 20mpg city and 27mpg plus hwy.

c2k4-8

That's the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard! I got WAY more stares when I had my Vette. And it was NOT in the shop. I get so sick of people putting down American cars.

DreRX8

Well if American cars were up to par then people wouldn't put them down They trail in terms of the technology and interior fit and finish--in terms of reliability, I've never personally experienced problems with them--but I have friends that had Fords (Explorers/ Mustangs) and they stayed in the shop. Besides the Corvette there aren't many American cars I'd get over foreign competition; however I wouldn't dream of getting a non-American truck or SUV.

RX8_Buckeye

http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2005089

DreRX8: If you're going to keep it up on your end then so am I. The fact that you're questioning this reliability study because it doesn't give a standard deviation figure shows that you don't even understand what it is tracking. The study tracks problems per 100 vehicles over a 3-year period. The industry average is 237. This means that most cars will have 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 problems over that period. Standard deviation for something like this is meaningless. It'll come out to around 2-3 problems per vehicle if I had to guess. It doesn't mean anything, hence the reason it is not published. What's important is the average number of problems per vehicle, which is exactly what the study tracks.

You asked about sample size--it's just over 50,000. This is enough to provide several hundred samples per vehicle model, which anybody with a statistics background could tell you is plenty.

Despite what you say (and I have no idea why you feel you are qualified to make these claims), all the manufacturers DO use these studies to track quality reliability trends of their vehicles. You are right that they also use their own internal studies, but I know for a fact that the two match very closely--so much so that they are given equal weighting. If you take the time to look at the study you'll see that the industry as a whole is doing a fantastic job when it comes to reliability. There is very little gap now between the best and the worst cars. American cars are right up there with their Japanese counterparts.

DreRX8

Your still talking about that huh? Like I said--go right ahead an go by the studies--I'm going to go from personal experiences. "American cars are right up there with their Japanese counterparts" Maybe you should re read my last post about American cars baby boy I didn't dog them out--their interior fit and finish lag--but I haven't experienced reliability problems with them on a whole. As far as Vettes are concerned--I've had more than enough experience with multiple Vettes to dispute those quality studies. You are saying that Corvettes are reliable cause the study says so--even though several former Vette owners have complained about reliability, and the cop out is that they must have lemons Well maybe your right smart guy :p

GotBass

You do realize that the 94 Vette was largely unchanged since 1983. The C5 was all new from the ground up in 1997. Completly different car.

DreRX8

I'm more than familiar with Corvettes C4 and C5.

therm8

Alot of people have friends who's Vette had tons of problems. Alot of problems can be found on internet forums. But no one complains about their trouble free car...because there's nothing to complain about. Just look at the Tech Forum here, you'd think the 8 is the biggest piece of junk ever let out of Japan if that's all you went by... Every single make/model/year has its share of problems. And according to those who actually collect data on such things, the C5 seems to do just fine. GM has come a long way in quality and reliability, and are rated above the industry average by everyone who rates these things. The stigma of bad quality and reliablity is much harder to fix. Look at Hyundai, they beat out Honda regularly on reliability in the past few years, but everyone still assumes Hyundai = crap.

RX8_Buckeye

LOL, okay maybe we both need to cool it with the sarcasm. Regarding "fit and finish" of American cars lagging, there are initial quality studies that suggest otherwise. However, you've made it abundantly clear that you'll take a few testimonials and personal experiences over any type of statistical evidence. That's fine. The reason I mentioned the study in the first place was to provide another point of view (besides the popular view on this forum, surprise surprise) about the quality and reliability of American cars. It's my opinion that the originator of this thread should have more to go on than the biased view of a few people on a Japanese car forum (whether they are for or against getting the Corvette). Just because you choose to ignore the results of these studies doesn't mean everybody else will.

policyvote

Well, I agree that the quality of American cars is much much better than it used to be--especially in terms of features and value. However, the entry-level cars's build quality is still pretty awful. I have a 2004 Sunfire, and the list of quality errors is impressive:

* Bottom half of dash and top half of dash don't quite meet in the middle.

* Looking at the heater vents, the bolts used to hold the dash together are CLEARLY visible just inside.

* After three weeks, the door fell out of hinge and created an air leak. After ignoring it for a couple days, the door nearly fell off (fixed it myself with a socket set so I could get to work).

* After two months, the trunk would not close--apparently the frame warped and the hook no longer reached the latch. They had to unmount and remount the latch to get the trunk to close.

* The CD player has all kinds of problems, from overheating after two CDs and shutting down, to cutting off the last five seconds of every song.

* When my fuel gets low, a little light that says "CHECK GAGES" [sic] lights up.

* Pushing the button to activate the sunroof causes the headliner to flex. With pressure, it will flex over a half-inch.

* after one year and 18,000 miles, the brake pads wore down almost to the metal and gashed up the rotors, and the brake fluid was dangerously low. The service guys said afterward they couldn't find the fluid leak despite repeated tests. I now basically drive on faith.

* After 18 months and 20k+ miles, the door fell slightly out of hinge again, and the door trim pried the moulding off of the front fender, ruining both the moulding and fender.

* And this techincally isn't a QC thing, but I still don't understand how a vehicle can get 40 real-world mpg on the highway, but average 24 at most in mixed/city driving.

Peace
policy

RX8_Buckeye

I believe I could create an equally-long list of issues with my 2004 RX-8, but I'm sure this wouldn't surprise most of you. However, your Sunfire sounds like a real POS. One thing I should mention about the reliability study is that it found that while American cars in general made drastic improvements, there are still certain models that fared poorly, particularly models that are long overdue for a redesign.

Rotary Rasp

iTrader: (2)

If you sell the 8, you'll no longer be in that elite rotary group.

RX8_Buckeye

LOL. The elite rotary group? You think anyone besides rotary owners considers us an "elite" group? J/K, I know what you're saying. It is cool to have something unique. I don't think it makes us elite though.

DreRX8

RX8-Buckeye--no harm no foul not trying to insult you--sorry if I did as well--For alot of people those surveys work fine--but for me they don't provide enough information to be useful. Also its not a few personal experiences--I lurk on forums and hear the good the bad and the ugly--of course that is where people come to vent issues, but your own discretion comes into play to know if said problem is widespread. Not to be confused though--I don't take all the negative press from a forum and run with it and make claims that a car is unreliable--but I note recurring issues with cars. I did the same with the 8 before I bought it--ironically I have had like 10% of the 'issues' other folks are having with there 8--so far its been my most reliable car--contrary to what the statistics say--maybe I have a reverse lemon though :p At the end of the day its about being a smart consumer--Out of all the cars I've had--those reliability studies have had little benefit for me, they just are not informative enough--I'd still get a C5 Vette but the knowledge gained about its mechanical and other issues will not be gained from JD or Consumer Reports. Statistically-as you've shown-they may have merit; however all my personal experiences have not lined up with their findings. Besides with such a new vehicle as the RX8 how accurate can early stats be?

mospeed

Well this is all still going to depend on how much I can sell the RX8 for. Anyone think $23K is too much? Everything but Navi on mine and has 20K miles, new tires, and flawless body condition. I take great pride on washing/waxing/detailing EVERY Sat... even during the week when we have the 5min thunderstorm here in houston. :-)

Any suggestions on a price? If I do sell it, it will be in a few months. My brother still has to find his but last night he said he is thinking of a 07 Z06 now. So who knows.... may have the Rx8 till 100K miles. hahahaha.

Thanks for everyones input.

Ed

dwynne

I could/can get a new left over 04 GT w/NAV for $26k. A loaded GT w/o Nav I could get for $25k or so new left over.

I would say with 20k on the clock you might be able to get $20k-22k for it. A lot depends on if you find someone who does not know the market and thinks paying $23k for a 1 year old car with a sticker over $30k is a good deal. If you have to wait, it will likely get worse. Once the 06 8 are on the way or here then MazdaUSA will have to increase incentives to move out the unsold 05s. So you will be competing against a few new 04s and lots of new 05s with thousands of incentive money on them.

I love the 8, but since Mazda can' sell them then neither can the owners .

Interesting note: the residual on a new S2000 promo lease after 3yrs/36k miles is 59% of MSRP. Guess what the residual is on an RX-8 2yr/24k mile promo lease? You got it - 59% - and MAC will give you an extra $2k if you do the lease. So Honda thinks the S will return the same percentage of MSRP in 3 years as MAC thinks the 8 will retain in just 2. Not even Mazda/MAC have confidence in the future value.

Dennis

mospeed

that really sucks that a $32K car loses $12K in value in about a year and half. doesn't say much about the RX8 does it?

anyways, KBB.com says trade in on my car is $21,850 and private sale is $25,010. That is why I asked if $23K was a reasonable deal. Who knows huh......

Thanks,
Ed

Dinhx8

I wouldn't call it a no brainer, I think I'd be concerned more with paying 20K for a car thats nearly 6 years old. I agree with Ike that you can't just expect the vette to break though. If you're that hungry for power, Pay a few more grand and get an 05 Mustang GT and she's all yours with waranty. Otherwise, I'd say hang on to the 8..it has a bit more utility than the vette I'd say....

Rotarian_SC

A better way to find out price than KBB is to look on Autotrader or one of the online car browsers and see how much cars similiar to yours are selling for in your area. That is unless your KBB value is high and you manage to force it on the dealer.

Many of these decisions you have to make yourself. For a car as good as the Vette what amount of time and money are you willing or able to have it in the shop. Does having the peace of mind of a more reliable car really help you, etc.

dwynne

Actually, looking at the other ads shows what others are ASKING for similar cars in your area. Most of the time you have to accept less than the asking price (been there, done that).

Also, as a private party sale VS all the dealers running ads you and I are at a disadvantage. For one thing, we don't have the title in hand (assuming the car is financed, which in this case it is) and we can't offer financing help like a dealer can. So for some folks if we had a car for sale the same price and miles as a dealer, they will buy the dealer car. Now me, I would rather look the owner in the eye and talk to them before I buy - so I would tend to take the private party car. But that is just me.

Dennis

mospeed

Yeah I remember selling my Jeep Liberty at carmax. It was the easiest transaction I have ever done. They gave me excatly what kbb.com said trade-in value was; go figure. Later I did see my former Jeep on carmax.com selling for $2K more. I DID go autotrader.com route but I did not get one response to it. oh well.

DreRX8

I'm probably gonna go via carmax to sell my Millenia S in the next few weeks.

mospeed

Yeah if carmax will offer me $22k for the 8.... I'm going Vette.