Sixsix

I was on www.gencoupe.com I dunno about the v6 but I know a lot of the guys with the 2.0t stock were only getting 19-20 mpg. No one seemed to be able to reach the claimed 30 mpg.

neXib

Like someone already mentioned, if mpg is the main reason you change cars you're just doing something idiotic. The cost of changing the car is much more expensive than years of expensive gas usage. Besides, the factory mpg numbers are basically lies anyway.

(I'd get the Hoondi if I had to choose one though. Don't want a US car that can't do a turn, and I don't know a single VAG owner that isn't yearly fixing something on their car. Hyundai's suck on the inside though, that's a big positive for VW's)

((It's weird that GTI is the model name in the US. As GTI is something more of an attribute over here))

mysql101

Just remember what happened with the Tiburon, Eclipse, etc. They look great when they come out and no one has one yet. That goes away quickly. So don't include this into your logic for why you should purchase a vehicle.



MazdaManiac, bikes are every bit as fun as a car to drive/ride under the speed limit. In fact, I would argue that they're a LOT more fun in the twisties. It's more involving, requires more skill, and you're out there, man and machine. The line isn't about getting around the corner fastest, it now matters. Your lean angle, your speed, it's not theory and BS. In a car, you're sitting in a chair behind a window watching it from afar. Sure it's fun in a car, but you are no where as involved. Also nothing beats the acceleration quite like 150+ hp in a 400 lbs vehicle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5g5J4mq8nE

bse50

That bike vs car thing is highly subjective.
I moved from bikes to car because i find the car more involving so this argument is a moot point.
Sure a bike is a faster machine than a car for less money, while going straight. Cars brake better and turn faster. That's just it. Since the OP is trying to chose from 3 cars and 0 bikes all of your points are useless.
We have a lot of golf GTIs here, they all tend to fall apart after a couple of years. The Genesis is what resembles a sports car more. The rustang is a rustang.
Are alfas imported there? a 147 gta with an lsd differential would be a better choice than a golf. So would a mspeed 3 be.

Triangle Man

I see almost zero Alfas on the roads here - they just don't import them on any kind of scale - and as such most of my Alfa knowledge comes from Top Gear. Aren't they like, the kings of being great to drive until they fall apart under you, Blues Brothers cop car style?

Over here VWs have the reputation of most German cars, that they're uber-reliable and well built, but if something does eventually break, you'll have to sell your firstborn to fix it.

100% agree on the MS3 thing, though. There's a Car and Driver thing on Youtube where they pick it over the Genesis.

bse50

Well, the truth is that it is quite the opposite. Alfas tend to be pretty realible and well built (mostly with cheap fiat based parts\chrysler in some cases) while the VW cars are complete piece of crap. I'm not talking out of my *** here but the mechanic that lets me use his lifts for my car has over 30yrs of experience in european cars and always rants about vw's downfall (same for bmw). He builds track and race cars as well as doing regular jobs and the vw golf\audi a3 is a reliability nightmare.
On the other hand we see alfas with 150.000kms of city driving with only the most basic things performed like oil changes and they still perform well. The main problem with this brand are the price tag and front wheel drive but with the right lsd they completely transform. They also make some cool diesel engines if mpg is an issue.

DarkBrew

That's pretty anecdotal... I'll add my own!

I've owned VWs, Hondas, Fords, Mazda, Chrysler and others.
My 1984 Jetta was the most reliable, the Honda was bad, the Chrysler was the worst. The Mazda is mid pack; Not bad for a sports car.
Full disclosure: My nephew is a VW mechanic and I own a 2002 Jetta

I also only know Alfas from Top Gear... But Chrysler parts? Fiat parts?... FIAT = Fix IT Again Tony

Reliability of modern cars is astounding. Even the bottom group of cars today are better than the top group 20 years ago so I'd have to say that there are few terrible cars built now.

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

That largely depends on the bike. A sportbike on a tiny slow course will obviously get smoked by a decent sports car. A supermoto or even a naked bike is a completely different story, especially when it comes to brakes and tight turns.

I still vote the GTI. Not too many on the road like a Mustang, not too few like the Genesis. I swear I think I've only seen like 3 or 4 on the road since it's been out and seen plenty collecting dust at the dealerships. I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for" and I doubt Hyundai has come up with some magical formula for making a better car than anyone else for less money. They've cheaped out in some aspect of the car, and it shows in its popularity.

neXib

VW cars have a lot of driveline and suspension parts fault, especially with spirited driving often. I've heard of so many cases on so many models that it's not random.

Alfas I believe there's just many small faults, no serious ones. Kinda like Renault, but it's just as annoying with a small fault as a big one when you have to take time off work to see the dealer etc. I know some Alfa mechanics and people that had them.

77mjd

for the OP, I'd say the Genesis is the best performance bang for the buck out of the 3. If I were you, I'd check out a 2011 and see if they tweeked the tranny at all to make it a little smoother. I am considering the Genesis myself and I figure I can get the track version for a little under 30K...the other car I am most considering is the Mustang 5.0. While it is definitely a beast...if I want equipped as close as possible to the Genesis, it is about 6-7k more, so that basically means 6-7k more for 100 more hp. Not really worth it, IMO..at least for a Mustang.

77mjd

It's only stupid if you haven't had the car long. I bought my RX-8 new in '04 and I'm about ready for something new. But, basically MPG is the one and only reason I will not get another RX-8. If you could get closer to 30 hwy, I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. But my 8 has been paid off for 4 years and I have been saving towards something else. It's not like I will dump it, owing money on it, just to get into something that gets 5 more MPG. That's what people were doing with their SUVs when gas hit $4+ and that was completely idiotic for anyone that did that.

tazzydnc

Gas mileage isn't the main reason I "change cars". I'm getting a new ride because after driving an automatic G35 for 5 years I want something different, and in my decision making process gas mileage is a factor, especially given that oil prices are sure to keep rising over the time span I own my next vehicle.

I drove an Rx-8 for several years and loved it. There were so many nice things about it that part of me is tempted to go back, but I want something with better fuel efficiency, more torque, and with a more of a sense of novelty.

tazzydnc

I drove V6 track model of the Genesis and have all but written it off. I can't stand the manual transmission it has. The shifting isn't smooth, the clutch is abrupt, and its a feature I'll be using all the time when I drive (duh). I think I took the MT on my 8 for granted way back when.

Like the Mustang, for 300hp this car didn't impress me all that much with its acceleration, but I say that having driven a 135i coupe for fun a several days before.

Last, and perhaps most frustrating, is the iPod connectivity. The only way to navigate the music when the iPod is plugged into vehicle is through the touch screen nav. Scrolling through songs and artists goes 1 at a time and takes FOREVER. Many cars have a "search" feature or a scroll wheel. The other option is to stream the audio via Bluetooth (which is really cool) but I could hear a decrease in sound quality as a result. The interior on the Track version of the Genesis is actually pretty nice though, so don't just judge based on an R-Spec.

tazzydnc

What I drove was definitely a 2011, and as previously stated, I hated the transmission. I was pretty impressed with the 5.0 Mustang I test drove. I had never driven a car with near that much power before. I could be in 6th gear at 30mpg and still have plenty of torque to accelerate - amazing. Its only like 40lbs heavier than the V6 too.

I've decided I want something thats a bit lighter, more nimble, so I'm not gonna go with either one, but the 5.0 is worth checking out if nothing else but to experience 412 HP and 390 lb/ft of torque.

77mjd

I think I'm in a similar boat as you. I want something as similar to the 8 as possible, but with better gas mileage. I've been looking for over a year, test driving several cars but there isn't anything else. The 370Z is about as close as you will get in that price range. I almost feel as I will be "settling" no matter what I might buy this time around. There is nothing I am in love with and would not get sick of in a couple of years. All I want is the next rotary car.

YaXMaNGTO

How many miles a year do you drive, and how much is premium gas in your area?

CrazyJek

Genesis nuff said.

nate340

+1

have you test drove any of these cars? its amazing how quick you can cook a gti's brakes with out even driving hard.

tazzydnc

You're right, I really do want something like the 8 but with way better gas mileage. 370z is a two-seater so thats a no go for me. Even still, I feel like the Z isn't nearly as smooth or refined as the 8. If I can work around the pricepoint, I think they 135i will be the ticket.

yiksing

Since the OP mentioned 135i, I say don't settle for anything else coz 135i is the awesome..

77mjd

Now...it's about 15k per year. After switching jobs a couple of years ago my commute increased considerably to around 300 miles per week. My old job it was around 100 per week. Premium is right around 3.00 right now.

YaXMaNGTO

So do the math...
15,000 miles per year, 17 mpg for the RX8 mostly highway (conservative), you burn 882 gallons of gas per year, so your total cost in gas is around $2650

Get a car with 25 mpg average, and I think that's HIGHLY unlikely for any sports car...

Same 15,000 miles per year, you burn 600 gallons of gas, so cost is $1800 per year.

Difference? $850... divide that out over 12 months? $70 a month.

$70... a month. Still worth it?

If you go buy a new a vehicle, it's going to depreciate, you'll be paying the interest on the loan, insurance will go up, etc. Still want to buy it? That's cool, but at least do the numbers.

Choose a more reasonable number like 21 mpg, and the number goes down to $42 difference a month from 17 mpg... $10 a week.

Point is to do the math. I have no pity for the idiots who buy new cars based on mpg because they can't do the simple grade school arithmetic.

CarAndDriver

Genesis coupe would be a better deal used, one year old low miles, to take advantage of steeper Hyundai/Kia depreciation. VW GTI if you really needed practicality and people hauling ability and then get the 5DR. I think I'd go with the Mustang. It is just get glowing reviews all around.

mKat

Reading through this thread I'm amazed that people want to switch from an RX8 to any of these three cars. Not a single one of them is in the same league in my opinion unless you place a very, very heavy wait on gas mileage.

If the 2010+ MazdaSpeed 3 had a turbo 2.5 I would be recommending that to you but as it is the '09- Speed3's have better performance and road feel (but the new ones have brilliant interiors).

The Genesis is the purest of the 3 but its steering and road feel are not in the same league as an RX, even the track model. But since you are moving away from an RX8 I'm guessing passion isn't a strong factor your new considerations. You seem more concerned about performance and a little refinement.

The GTi has excellent steering and good lateral responses but you sit "UP" in it whereas the other two you sit "IN". Best mileage but worst performance of the three.

Based on your combination of needs and wants given the choices that means Mustang.

Amazing engine achievement, good mileage, ok chassis, and a good interior.

I COULD NOT recommend that car to myself though, but of course I am not you.

PatrickB

If you're looking used, how about a used M3 coupe?