dmp

Which of those cars gave the worst driving experience? The Milan, hands down. Thus, I'll start with that one.


I got the Milan as a loaner while my RX8's engine was replaced last week. Inside the car was pretty comfortable. Everything was within reach. Car road fairly well, too. The car was a HUGE improvement over the Sable - which it replaced - until I stepped on the gas pedal. Absolutely the WORST engine/transmission combo I've EVER experienced. The Car felt like it was starting in 2nd gear all the time. At even moderate throttle the car would rev to 2500 then SIT there until CLANG! The tranny decided to shift. I couldnt even shift the AT myself - because there were TWO options for the selector: D and 2 (or maybe L?). Ghetto. I was honestly driving the car thinking "SOMEBODY who gets paid more than I do, likely, had to 'OK' this POS in the design phase. Wow." Horrible, horrible engne. Raspy and rattly. The engine would build a little steam about 4000, then be out of breath by about 5000 rpms. Gutless was my watchword while driving that car.

The car made a great errands-car for my wife; She LOVED the HUGE trunk. By my estimation one could fit 6 baby-kegs or three dead hookers therein.

The car I liked next-least was the Magnum SRT8.

THIS car is imposing. Just as I was walking up to the car, owned by a friend/coworker, I began to get nervous. Four Hundred Twenty Horsepower. MASSIVE perportions. Snarling, Brute Force.

Opening the door I saw what was to be expected - a truck-like interior. Not pedestrian, but not luxurious either. Barely even 'sporty'. Plopping my Birthing-Hips into the seats gave me a bit of a shiver. Not bad...Hell, more than not-bad, these were perhaps the BEST factory seats I've had the pleasure of using in ANY car. I've sat in a LOT of cars. On Three continents. VERY well done SRT!.

I turned the key and the car burbled to life. I sat there watching the gauges and listening. Before a few seconds I realized I was smiling and hadn't even moved the transmission to D yet.

Pulling out onto the road I goosed the gas 'just a little'. The car HOPPED up to the speedlimit in a blink. More than the thrust - the SOUND. Uh...WOW. I love my rx8's engine sound - I WISH I could hear the exhaust from inside the cabin (anyone wanna buy a RB catback? Hope you like quiet!). The SRT8's exhaust note filled the cabin with a rumble.

"Oh my gawd." I said aloud. My coworker just smiled and laughed a little bit.

"That is NICE." I told him.

Out onto a freeway on-ramp w/ nobody in front of me. Right Foot, Down.

The car Shot off the line and the sound inside the cockpit increased. A MAGICAL sound it was. Seriously good stuff. Then - the transmission decided to shift......took....awhile....

But when it DID shift the car jumped forward. Before I knew it I was over 70mph and hadn't yet merged.

The car seemed to build speed VERY much like the feeling of a jet liner taking off. As the car got faster it almost felt more powerful. I can't think of another car, less than $45k, which would be BETTER for a drive across the country. The car felt cavernous inside, but comfortable. The seats held me in place perfectly. On two decreasing-radius off-ramps the car handled fairly well. Turn in was a bit slow, but the massive grip from the tires, and the very-well-controlled body roll gave a lot of confidence.

Back onto back-roads I tride a stomp-the-gas launch. A little tire spin and the car shot forward - until the lazy shift. Trying to launch with the ESC off is futile. Stop the go-pedal and the large rear tires transfrom in to shredded rubber and smoke.

I'd estimate 15 baby-kegs or 5 dead hookers in the hatch area.

Next on the list is the R32. This car is owned by the guy who owns the SRT8 (and the 350Z I drove and spoke of a month or so ago).

Now I got into the car w/o having ANY precoceptions. I'd not driven a German car in more than a decade, by my best recolection. I felt VERY at ease behind the wheel. My hand fell nicely to the shifter - all controls seemed to be where I wanted them to be. The exhaust note was fine - agressive but not loud - just like I like my women!

Rolling out and finding a back road, I noticed a feeling of sitting on top of the floorpan of the car. Doesnt make sense? Right. You know how in the RX8, everything - the dash, sills, and such - are AROUND you? The R32 but things sort of BELOW you. The car had plenty of power - not as much as the 350Z - probably not as much as my RX8 - but didnt notice a powerband 'sweet spot'. The car also felt like it was dancing on it's toes to a certain extent. From my understanding the AWD system is like that of the MS6 - FWD biased w/ the rear tires getting power upon detection of slip.

All in all, the car felt lighter than it was. "Very confident" is how I'd describe feeling. The interior appointments were top-notch, too.

Very little cargo room - I'd guess two baby-kegs and 1/2 dead hooker capacity.

Just today I drove a 2004 S4 offered for sale at a dealership an hour north of here. As I walked around the car I noticed how SMALL it seemed. With the driver's seat all the way back there wasnt but a couple inches between the rear seat and the front seat back. Once my kids got in the back I noticed it felt like I have MORE rear-seat room in my rx8, than in this car.

Getting in the driver's seat I SLAMMED my right knee into the center tunnel. Owwwww!

I started the car and smiled at the purring sounds coming from the engine and the exhaust. I glanced over at my wife - she didn't look happy. It wasn't the car, it was she noticed I looked happy. In her eyes I saw her mind's gears turning, counting the dollars we'd soon be spending each month on ANOTHER 'darin' car.

Out of the parking lot, and onto the road.

Holy. ****. Yup. I said it. I may say it again. At the first traffic light I looked around for Coppers before doing "just" a 2000ish RPM launch.

BAM! the car literally SHOT forward. No fuss, no muss. Just Speed ON demand. And the sound was awesome too - like a muted version of the SRT8, more exotic, but every bit as muscley. Down around the next corner, I could feel the car clawing the wet pavement. With each stab of the loud-button at the bottom of my right foot, the car would thrust ahead with an aggressive but never out-of-control feeling.

Hells yeahs...I was laughing and smiling. My wife was holding her neck from the driver-induced whiplash.

VERY VERY VERY Nice.

until it ran out of gas.


Yeah - when I got in the car I noticed 1/8th tank of fuel remaining. I figured the car would have at LEAST 5 gallons left - plenty for a test drive. I had just turned onto the freeway when I heard a BEEEEEEEEEEEEP and a large fuel-pump icon appeared in the center of the guage cluster. Within 1/4 mile the car was stuttering and sputtering and flashing CELs. I lucked out and found a close exit. I had to COAST down the off-ramp, and luckily thru a recently-turned-green light to a bus-stop area off the main road.

Would YOU expect a car to run DEAD with this much fuel 'showing' on the gauge? It's pert-near 1/8 tank. I figured there should easily a few gallons left. Plenty for a 15-20 minute test drive, imo.



Good thing I had the cell # to the salesman. After about 15-20 minutes getting very familiar with the inside of the car, he showed up with fuel. After 5 gallons of gas, the car started..eventually...but ran so poorly, I took it straight back to the dealership. They apologized a LOT - and started pushing heavily to tell them what it'd take to make the deal happen. I told him I never buy the first day - and doubt I'd want to buy the car now, anyway, unless it had a full check up at an Audi dealer. Cat-Coverters suddenly getting HOT from a lean condition might go bad.

Anywho, I left with a hand shake, and a GOOD idea of what my next car will be. :D

btw - In the s4? think 6-8 baby-kegs, or 4 dead hookers - if they were petite.

vcpatel

Very nice write up... seems that the only one you didnt really like was the milan, which is predictable.

mkaresh

I assume the Milan was a four-cylinder. The four used by Ford and Mazda feels very soft in the mid-range. I haven't had issues with its refinement, though.

SRT does make some great seats. But I wonder if the SRT engine is necessarily worth the cost and fuel economy penalty over the regular 5.7. Luckily, for 2007 it's possible to get the same seats along with the 20-inch alloys in the regular Magnum RT.

The S4's engine is amazing. Seats are also very good--surprised you didn't mention them. The handling of the B6 isn't the best, lots of weight on the nose, but the engine makes up for it. The B7 should be better, as it has a rear-biased AWD system.

For an RX-8 driver you seem to be a bit of a torque junky.

Design1stCode2nd

I think everybody is probably a bit of a torque junkie. Usually the trade off is you get alot of Go withh a little handling or alot of handling with less go. Unless of course you have alot of money. If you could have the power of a V8, the handling of an RX8 for the price of an RX8 I don't think anyone would complain.

Some cars that do that are a Cayman S, M3, and several other more expensive cars.

mkaresh

I've driven the M3. Even if it did handle well (and I wasn't crazy about the E46 M3's on-street handling) it would still handle like a coupe, not a sports car.

The Cayman is a lot of fun, much better handling than the looser Boxster. But the RX-8 is about as intuitive as they come for me, I cannot exactly explain why. Just get in and go fast, very little learning curve.

dmp

I've read the B6 has a 40/60 AWD split, front to rear; am I mistaken? I'm not so much a torque junky as I am a 'I want a car to be reliable and consistant" junky.

mkaresh

The ones with the big grille have the 40/60. Earlier ones were 50/50. B7 is the current generation. B6 is previous.

dmp

I know the difference in generations; just misread the awd split.

Thanks!

mkaresh

Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. Before posting I checked myself to make sure that B6 wasn't the current one.

Design1stCode2nd

I'd have to agree that the RX8 is a very easy car to drive quickly. An Evo, STI, 350z or M3 will bite you if you are pushing it and don't know exactly what you are doing while the Porsche is more forgiving like the 8.

dmp

I think ANY car will bite ya if you don't know the car's tendencies.

playdoh43

imo its the opposite, its much easier to drive a EVO, STI, or 350Z fast... i dont know about the M3.. than the RX8... especially the EVO and STI, AWD traction makes bad drivers look good and good drivers look great. its much easier to loose traction with the rx8. the 350z with its heavier weight and understeer is also easier to drive fast than the rx8, its actually quite a bit more difficult to swing its tail out vs the rx8 and its generally more forgiving during cornering. on top of that, you have to be skilled at keeping the revs high to keep the rx8 in the sweet part of the powerband while the other cars you mentioned have much beefier torque curves and thus more forgiving with mistakes. ull get penalized more if you get out of the powerband in the rx8.

dosnt mean they handle better, thats a different debate, they are just easier to drive and more forgiving, especially for normal people.

as for porche 911, they are notoriously prone to loosing the tail end during cornering. that is why a lot of editors prefer the MR platform of the cayman S over the RR layout of the 911. they are some of the greatest handling cars out there, but they are not forgiving at all.

N10S

I have been fortunate enough to own an E36 M3/4, an MCoupe, two bi-turbo S4's, an R32 Golf, an Evo VIII, and even a Forester XT with a full-on Sti suspension with JDM Sti pink springs and group N top mounts running on Sti wheels and tires.

A few of these cars have been mentioned in this thread, and having owned and pushed these cars through the twisties, and now having the RX8 I can tell you that for me, the RX8 is by far the most predictable allowing you to drive it to 9/10ths with no issues or weird quirks. The E36 was also very neutral and easy to drive fast, but felt less predictable.

The MCoupe was easily the most fun to drive, but pretty scary and prone to be tail-happy like the old 911's. The S4's? Boring really. Fast cars for sure, especially when modified, but they are prone to understeer, and really feel disconnected from the road. Their AWD system feels more like FWD...no fun.

The Evo was a blast to drive, and very neutral handling for an AWD car, but it also required lots of attention and although you could drive it to 9/10ths with no issues, the power of the Evo combined with the handling resulted in some interesting OMG moments. The R32 was certainly less of animal than the Evo, but actually a lot better than I had anticipated, and I had a lot of fun owning and driving the car. About the same level of power as the RX8, cool sounding exhaust, and just a very nicely appointed car from an interior, brakes, body kit, etc... . The handing was still prone to understeer and the AWD system was the Haldex set-up which is what the MS6 has and the reason I avoided the MS6 and bought the RX8.

Overall there have only been three cars that I knew I had to have after a brief test drive, and thats the MCoupe, the Evo, and the RX8. It was all about the feel of the car, and not specifically the power or acceleration. Each of these cars had/have that connected viscirile feel that very few cars can actually deliver. Thats only 3 cars out of 53 that I have owned that passed that test at that level. Just pushing the RX8 through a mountain road the other day left me exhilerated and glad I had bought it.

Just some comparisons I thought I would throw in as well...

Jeff

Ike

IMO it's more difficult to drive the Z at it's limits, mainly because the car just isn't as good at telling the driver where its limits are.

It's pretty easy to drive the Evo fast. However pushing its limits is a bit different from the RX-8. The Evo will do things you don't even think are possible. I've had a couple instances where I've thought I overcooked a turn and the car just shrugs it off and keeps on moving right along. It's those instances that make you a little overconfident in what the car can do and with all that power and grip it will bite you in the *** if you keep testing those limits. To drive an Evo REALLY fast you have to go beyond what you think its limits are.

The keeping the revs thing up doesn't really make sense. Every car has a powerband and if you drop out of it you'll be slow. Dropping off the boost in an Evo or STI would be far worse than being too low in the rev range in an RX-8. Rev the **** out of the RX-8 and you're fine, it's pretty simple...

I agree with what N10S said about the M3. But I'll go a step further and say that as a drivers car the E30 was better and communicated to the driver better.

Lastly, the STI is easy to drive fast and is all less engaging because it understeers a little more. However, drive it "wrong" and it will tend to understeer more than it would otherwise. Too many people thing AWD will make them a hero on the track, but all it will really do is allow you to get away with bad habits more often than a RWD car would.

N10S

Very true on the E30 M3. Never owned one, but have spent time behind the wheel and they are great little cars!!

Design1stCode2nd

N10S and Ike said it for me, the RX8 is predictible and like a punchingbag and while the Evo will reward a better driver the RX8 is easier to drive near it's limits and makes those limits clear with some tail out action. Letting off the gas with the tail out (I know I know I've driven too many FWD cars it's going to take a while to break the a habit of it) in an RX8 doesn't appear to get you in too much trouble, do that in a 350z and I can't say teh same.