Rotary "Breakthrough"
10-27-2012, 04:35 AM
#26
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the leading plug hole is bigger than the trailing plug hole because of compression loss, the trailing plug is located where the compression stroke ends and the power stroke begins, so it needs to be small.
the leading plug is not in the middle of the two strokes* like that, so it can be bigger, or more accurately it doesn't need to be so small.
the leading plug is not in the middle of the two strokes* like that, so it can be bigger, or more accurately it doesn't need to be so small.
10-27-2012, 05:05 AM
#27
that hole is bigger is when the rotor spins at that point, the compression between the 2 chambers is actually about the same. leakage is minimum. so if the plug fires at that point, more gas will "see/touch" the spark and it results in more power.
As for the "different" pocket on the rotor, Mazda also did explain why it's at the middle. I forgot exactly why tho. something about balancing(it would be a bitch) and durability(it's gonna be a pain to keep trying to cool off one spot on the rotor)
Not trying to doubt him, his idea is interesting, but I guess the editor and him should really re-read all Mazda's papers about the engine before he opens publicly about this "breakthrough"
As for the "different" pocket on the rotor, Mazda also did explain why it's at the middle. I forgot exactly why tho. something about balancing(it would be a bitch) and durability(it's gonna be a pain to keep trying to cool off one spot on the rotor)
Not trying to doubt him, his idea is interesting, but I guess the editor and him should really re-read all Mazda's papers about the engine before he opens publicly about this "breakthrough"
10-27-2012, 07:54 AM
#29
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To the best of my knowledge mazda had all engineer hands on deck for skyactiv. Now that it is coming to market with no foreseeable changes made to the platform I truly believe it will become all hands on deck for the next gen performance rotary and the rotary range extended hybrid.
10-27-2012, 11:11 AM
#31
Legend In My Own Mind
Just to clarify what some people seem to be missing. The rotor would be balanced as that same relief would be onall 3 sides. Mazda didn't put a ton of research into the Renesis. A small team of engineers put it together on the side and Mazda decided out was a good idea.
10-27-2012, 11:42 AM
#32
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Even "on the side" with a small team of engineers, 10+ years is quite a long time to try out all this stuff. This guy's "breakthrough" was probably thought of and experimented with years ago.
Again, it doesn't mean that there is, or is not, a benefit from that. All it means is that Mazda has not been in the financial position to actually start producing another rotary yet (as a primary powerplant). Mazda engineers are probably snickering at the people that see it as amazing or "Mazda really needs to know about this!".
Probably with something like "that was so 2005....."
There isn't 1 single factor, or even a set of 2-4 factors about the rotary engine shapes that can suddenly be improved and that is all that is needed.
For example, the guy doesn't address the need for narrower rotors because the current flame front doesn't fully reach the leading rotor tips. Doesn't address the thermal expansion problem between various parts. Doesn't address the lubrication needs. Doesn't address the carbon problems. The high exhaust heat isn't ONLY because of the spark plug hole size after all.
Does his theory make some sense and can be used in the next rotary? Sure! but it needs a hell of a lot more than just that, and I'm confident that Mazda is aware of those improvements/needs, and probably has been for years. And has progressed beyond that simplicity to something far more advanced.
Discovering Erector Sets after years of playing with Legos doesn't mean it's a breakthrough if your older brother is already working with Solidworks and a machine shop and just doesn't have the capital backing to start producing parts.
Again, it doesn't mean that there is, or is not, a benefit from that. All it means is that Mazda has not been in the financial position to actually start producing another rotary yet (as a primary powerplant). Mazda engineers are probably snickering at the people that see it as amazing or "Mazda really needs to know about this!".
Probably with something like "that was so 2005....."
There isn't 1 single factor, or even a set of 2-4 factors about the rotary engine shapes that can suddenly be improved and that is all that is needed.
For example, the guy doesn't address the need for narrower rotors because the current flame front doesn't fully reach the leading rotor tips. Doesn't address the thermal expansion problem between various parts. Doesn't address the lubrication needs. Doesn't address the carbon problems. The high exhaust heat isn't ONLY because of the spark plug hole size after all.
Does his theory make some sense and can be used in the next rotary? Sure! but it needs a hell of a lot more than just that, and I'm confident that Mazda is aware of those improvements/needs, and probably has been for years. And has progressed beyond that simplicity to something far more advanced.
Discovering Erector Sets after years of playing with Legos doesn't mean it's a breakthrough if your older brother is already working with Solidworks and a machine shop and just doesn't have the capital backing to start producing parts.
10-27-2012, 08:25 PM
#34
SARX Legend
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Yes, the differences are well documented. S2 housings have even been used in S1 engine rebuilds. Aside from the changes to the oiling system and the oil metering system there are no major differences to the major hard parts.
10-29-2012, 01:50 PM
#35
balance is not an issue with an offset combustion recess, EVERY 12A (except 74-75) has an offset combustion recess.
10-29-2012, 04:34 PM
#36
but this guy's "discovery" moved the bathtube to one edge completely, Mazda's wasn't, it was asymmetrical, but just not "move the pocket to the edge", it will overheat the tips and Apex (if it's not already hot enough!) cuz it will be a complete bitch to cool (the bathtube area @ rotor's inside vs the tip of the rotor)
Last edited by nycgps; 10-29-2012 at 04:38 PM.
10-29-2012, 04:43 PM
#37
Again, it doesn't mean that there is, or is not, a benefit from that. All it means is that Mazda has not been in the financial position to actually start producing another rotary yet (as a primary powerplant). Mazda engineers are probably snickering at the people that see it as amazing or "Mazda really needs to know about this!".
Probably with something like "that was so 2005....."
There isn't 1 single factor, or even a set of 2-4 factors about the rotary engine shapes that can suddenly be improved and that is all that is needed.
For example, the guy doesn't address the need for narrower rotors because the current flame front doesn't fully reach the leading rotor tips. Doesn't address the thermal expansion problem between various parts. Doesn't address the lubrication needs. Doesn't address the carbon problems. The high exhaust heat isn't ONLY because of the spark plug hole size after all.
Does his theory make some sense and can be used in the next rotary? Sure! but it needs a hell of a lot more than just that, and I'm confident that Mazda is aware of those improvements/needs, and probably has been for years. And has progressed beyond that simplicity to something far more advanced.
Discovering Erector Sets after years of playing with Legos doesn't mean it's a breakthrough if your older brother is already working with Solidworks and a machine shop and just doesn't have the capital backing to start producing parts.
Probably with something like "that was so 2005....."
There isn't 1 single factor, or even a set of 2-4 factors about the rotary engine shapes that can suddenly be improved and that is all that is needed.
For example, the guy doesn't address the need for narrower rotors because the current flame front doesn't fully reach the leading rotor tips. Doesn't address the thermal expansion problem between various parts. Doesn't address the lubrication needs. Doesn't address the carbon problems. The high exhaust heat isn't ONLY because of the spark plug hole size after all.
Does his theory make some sense and can be used in the next rotary? Sure! but it needs a hell of a lot more than just that, and I'm confident that Mazda is aware of those improvements/needs, and probably has been for years. And has progressed beyond that simplicity to something far more advanced.
Discovering Erector Sets after years of playing with Legos doesn't mean it's a breakthrough if your older brother is already working with Solidworks and a machine shop and just doesn't have the capital backing to start producing parts.
11-03-2012, 08:45 PM
#38
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Mazda's Rotary Engine BREAKTHROUGH! OCTOBER 2012! This Could be the big one!
Fellow enthusiasts!
I've just stumbled across something I would like to share with all of you, which I'm sure all of you will appreciate (I haven't seen it posted anywhere).
The breakthrough proposes a PROPER solution to the compression issues inherent to the Rotary engines current & past design, and MUCH better power and fuel efficiency (more like the piston counterpart).
There's a lot more to the video, but I don't want to spoil it for any of you, so I'll leave the rest of the interesting bits for all of you to see in the video.
Lets just say this new discovery is so simple that it hurts, and after seeing the video you should have a good idea of where rumored Laser Ignition System should be right at home.
I'll say no more, enjoy!
The main bits from the video are at 4:34 and 5:13.
I've just stumbled across something I would like to share with all of you, which I'm sure all of you will appreciate (I haven't seen it posted anywhere).
The breakthrough proposes a PROPER solution to the compression issues inherent to the Rotary engines current & past design, and MUCH better power and fuel efficiency (more like the piston counterpart).
There's a lot more to the video, but I don't want to spoil it for any of you, so I'll leave the rest of the interesting bits for all of you to see in the video.
Lets just say this new discovery is so simple that it hurts, and after seeing the video you should have a good idea of where rumored Laser Ignition System should be right at home.
I'll say no more, enjoy!
The main bits from the video are at 4:34 and 5:13.
11-03-2012, 08:49 PM
#39
Un-Registered User
11-04-2012, 12:45 AM
#41
I feel the same way. Mazda knows what is going on inside that chamber. And they don't need to build a prototype. They could put these changes in an engineering program. To think Mazda missed something soo simple is complete nonsense.
11-04-2012, 12:51 AM
#42
Un-Registered User
If this was always the case then half the **** we have today wouldn't have been invented
11-04-2012, 01:39 AM
#43
Mazda has been experimenting with combustion recess configurations from day 1. They changed it around several times in the 1970s. They re-evaluated in the 1990s when they were developing the Renesis.
If it were possible to make the leading plug hole smaller, Mazda would have done that. They even experimented with a prechamber system in the 1990s. They published an analysis of gas leakage in the rotary engine decades ago. This guy is a shadetree who has no idea what work Mazda has done over the years. I have all the relevant papers and studies which show his ideas are basically a waste of time.
If it were possible to make the leading plug hole smaller, Mazda would have done that. They even experimented with a prechamber system in the 1990s. They published an analysis of gas leakage in the rotary engine decades ago. This guy is a shadetree who has no idea what work Mazda has done over the years. I have all the relevant papers and studies which show his ideas are basically a waste of time.
11-04-2012, 01:55 AM
#44
I'm not talking about half the ****, I'm talking about this engine. If you believe the solution is this simple go right ahead, I'm not bashing you or anyone else. I hope there is some truth to what he's claiming but my better judgement tells me that it's not that simple. What I do know is this man is irresponsible. He's making grand claims with nothing to back it up. I have a problem with that.
11-05-2012, 07:44 AM
#46
How did this guy make it on to Autoline Daily? His claim to have tested successfully his ideas applied to a working unit would have been really nice to see functioning; instead we get to see the ugliest welded rotor in history.
I love people's individual innovation and ingenuity but despise ugly work and a cheap *** approach to things that should be scientific and professional (You can imagine how I feel every time I see someone rebuilding their rotary that MAYBE is qualified to change their spark plugs
).
It's not that he brings no good point at all (Although he is wrong in areas) but, as others have mentioned here, Mazda has tried more things than any of us will ever know (Miller cycle, stratified charge, lots of plug configurations and combustion shapes).
Paul.
I love people's individual innovation and ingenuity but despise ugly work and a cheap *** approach to things that should be scientific and professional (You can imagine how I feel every time I see someone rebuilding their rotary that MAYBE is qualified to change their spark plugs
).It's not that he brings no good point at all (Although he is wrong in areas) but, as others have mentioned here, Mazda has tried more things than any of us will ever know (Miller cycle, stratified charge, lots of plug configurations and combustion shapes).
Paul.
Last edited by Mazmart; 11-05-2012 at 07:47 AM.
11-09-2012, 10:37 AM
#48
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Turbo 8, ACTIVATE!!!!!!!!!!!
11-09-2012, 01:26 PM
#49
Un-Registered User
The dude only said his results were "astounding" and EGT fell
Cool story bro, got any evidence of that?
How is he going to know his silly rotor even works better or just as good as an oem rotor?
Cool story bro, got any evidence of that?
How is he going to know his silly rotor even works better or just as good as an oem rotor?
01-10-2013, 10:14 AM
#50
Rotary Evolution
i'll doubt this guy all day long, because he has proven nothing. mazda already tried various rotor combustion pocket combinations.
and the spark plug pocket isn't nearly the large gaping hole he claims when you use the appropriate plugs.
this program just grabbed some random guy who claimed to have done something inventive, which he hasn't. coincidentally at the same time that mazda announced the retirement of the 8's.
and the spark plug pocket isn't nearly the large gaping hole he claims when you use the appropriate plugs.
this program just grabbed some random guy who claimed to have done something inventive, which he hasn't. coincidentally at the same time that mazda announced the retirement of the 8's.
Last edited by Karack; 01-10-2013 at 10:17 AM.