Tigster

Show me a 400 hp boosted rx8 using a stock renesis engine. For every 1 renesis at that power there are 10 S2000's.

I know of a SC S2000 that puts down close to 400 hp, the turbo'd ones are much higher HP. They have a problem with the driveline holding the power not the motor.

search www.s2ki.com you'll see lots of boosted honda's running pump gas.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

show me one of those on STOCK 11:1 compression that doesn't use a ridiculous octane fuel or AI. I bet the compression on those things are in the 8,5-9:1 range. And again, heavier and the packaging is larger. On top of that is the fact you don't NEED 400whp in a 2000lb track car.

c0ldf1ame

iTrader: (5)

for the elise, the only engine swap that seems reasonable would be a front drive honda motor like a k22, sure weight is an issue but you get 2 cams, vtec and a revy 200hp, and with just bolt ons you get another 30hp, and with a turbo you can easily be over 300, plus you don't have to deal with a transmission swap as well as an engine swap, and reliabilities issues related to a Frankenstein engine tranny setup

mac11

iTrader: (1)

custom bell housing adapter and custom input shaft. It's done all the time. Look at the Porsche's running chevy V-8's in the rear end.

BigRed

not the *purist* form of a Porsche... Lotus are butchered in the beginning imo, they have toyota engines in them already for god's sake...

Tigster

use an inlinepro gasket you can run stock compression on a s2000. Using a stock compression on the s2000 motor. Look up slideways and fltsfshr on the s2ki.com site. Fltsfshr is my dad and turns out 374 whp at 10 lbs.

He runs a 2002 S2000

Stock compression
Vortec SC
550 cc injectors
AEM ecu
and a list of other stuff but that is the major ones

pump gas.

The guys who really turn up the boost drop the compression to 9.75, and get well into the 400's of power some are over 500 whp.


Not to mention there are NA cars that are building them up with independant throttle bodies etc that are turning out 320 whp.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

you mean the thicker head gaskets by inline pro that lower the compression? go figure.

Throwdown

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion a Renesis swap into a Lotus is not about power, it's about doing something unique that will turn some heads. I mean, who wouldn't go wild when they see a Lotus in the staging area for SSXI?

Anyone that pushes the marginal HP gains just doesn't really understand what major modding to cars is about. It's all personality.

Ike

This has been gone over several times on this forum so I'm not going to get into it at length. But...

1.) On dynojets Elises usually dyno between 165 and 175whp, the RX-8 is usually between 175 and 185whp. If you think that equates to 20whp I can't help you.

2.) Mazda told mags years ago that the Renesis weighs around 130kg which is probably dry considering that's usually what manufacturers use. Toyota states 115kg.

3.) Sure it is, as is gas mileage...

4.) I said the benefits would be minimal I never said no benefits.. Maybe it would make a difference, maybe it wouldn't, we don't know. I was involved in grassroots racing long enough to realize that lowering CoG and constantly worrying about balancing out weight doesn't always equate to better handling with faster laptimes. The Elise is one of the best handling cars in the world and it's hard to fault their choice of the 2ZZ.

5.) The stock Elise's redline is 8000rpm (1000rpm difference) and fuel cut is 8350.

Ike

Agreed, the only way it makes sense is if you're a rotary fanatic and want a fun project to dump some money into. Otherwise putting a renesis in an Elise simply isn't worth the trouble.

Tigster

You'll need that for lots of boost. My dad's car runs the stock head gasket stock compression.

Astral

Dry Renesis is 84kg.

9291150

^ on dynojets, all the Elise dyno's I've seen on stock NA Elises is consistently low 160's to higher 160's - Sport Compact mag did 166hp.

Renesis have been all over the place, 170 to 200 stock, but I'd say the average is in the 180's.

PoorCollegeKid

The Elise's transient fuel cut is ~8500-8600. You can't run it that high for more than a few seconds, but I don't think any engine is run at its fuel cut for more than that amount of time, anyway.

As far as handling goes, a Renesis would lower the Cg of the engine by a few inches while adding a little weight and probably doing very little in terms of inertia. There'll probably be no discernible difference between the way the two cars handle. I think that it would be cool to see a Renesis in the Elise, but I really think that the cool-factor would be the biggest reason to do this kind of swap. The other benefits, even the increased power and torque, really wouldn't be hugely significant, especially when compared to what you could do to the 2ZZ for that amount of money/effort.

9291150

^ it's wouldn't just be lower, but also more centered. Might not make a huge diff. in an Elise, but if the 8 had the Toyota 4 it sure as hell would handle differently. Also, I still highly doubt the renesis is heavier, there's no way a dry inline 4 1800cc engine weighs less than 180 pounds.

Don't get why lotus would advertise a 7800rpm redline if you say cut off is at 8600. Most cars cut off 200-300rpm north of redline.

Tigster

Or you could just buy an ariel atom

9291150

In a second if I could!

Tigster

I got offered to go for a ride in one with around 340 whp. He said I would seriously have to wear depends (yes the diaper) because you can have some problems. He wears them when ever he drives it hard. I thought that was gross and said no thanks.

Ike

You don't know that it would be more centered. You also don't know that centered would be better, you're doing nothing but making assumptions... There's also no way the Renesis is 180 lbs. dry, I guarantee that is not a dressed weight (with accessories).

Lastly, I don't know where you come up with this nonsense. Show me one single source that shows the federal elise as having a 7800rpm redline. That's where it makes peak power, that's NOT redline. I believe I've pointed out the same mistake on other cars to you before, but seemingly you still don't get it. Some sources list the redline at 8k, others at 8300 or 8350 because I believe that's where fuel cut becomes a factor and it will go beyond 8500 for a small amount of time.

Renesis_8

Actually it'd make more of difference in a Lotus than in a 8 in a physics pov. But since the Elise is MR, and 8 is FR, i am guessing thats where you're coming from.

However, don't forget the toyota engine is mounted in a transverse configuration. The reason I think is because the inline-4 is a little long to fit in a Longitudinal layout. The renesis is definitely shorter and *could* possibly be mounted Longitudinal in an elise. The center of gravity could be lowered more than an inch IMO, since the top of a piston engine is pretty heavy with the cams, valves, intake, exhaust plumbing. and a lot more for the yaw moment (centering the mass), if we're talking a longitudinal renesis.
________
How to use a genie vaporizer

PoorCollegeKid

I was basing my previous comment on the previously held belief that the Renesis weighs in at ~303lbs with all accessories and whatnot, which I remember reading on this forum a while ago. A just saw in the Weight thread that Racing Beat measured the engine with accessories at 264lbs, which may put the 13B at a little lighter than the 2ZZ. I believe that the 254lb weight for the 2ZZ-GE is the weight of the dry but fully assembled engine. I don't know if it includes accessories or not, which could change things a bit. It'd be nice if someone came up with a standardized way to weigh engines, and then made that info available...

Anyway, if you really want to get down to details, the 2ZZ-GE is offset toward the passenger side in the Elise. This means that it helps counter the driver's weight when there's only one person in the car! Adding a more centered Renesis would ever-so-slightly unbalance the car in that way (assuming it's balanced now), which would ever-so-slightly affect the car's handling. Changes like this I don't regard as being particularly significant, and, as Ike said, any benefits or harm that they may cause will be minimal. The Cg movement might be a bit more substantial, but then again moving ~15% of the car's mass down by ~3" would move the car's total Cg down by less than 0.5". Is this enough to really have any effect? I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd say it'd be minor at best, but I really can't say for sure.

According to the Elisetalk people, the 2ZZ has a steady state redline of 8000rpm and a transient rev limit of ~8600rpm, as told by data pulled off of their ECUs. This is pretty comparable to a 4G63 (7000rpm redline, 7600rpm rev limit) or the Renesis (9000rpm redline, 9500rpm rev limit). That much separation between redline and rev limit isn't quite the norm for most engines, but it really isn't too extraordinary, either. What I really wonder is why Lotus didn't mark a redline on the tach...

Sorry for the longish post, but I was doing some other work and just kept coming back and adding more every few minutes... Now it's time to get home so I can catch the Sox game

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

A bone stock Renesis would dyno at around 200 to the wheels in an Elise with the Elise driveline components.

Paul.

Ike

Pure speculation.

DARKMAZ8

why would someone do this?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

It is pure speculation until proven, but hey, what do I know?

Paul.