moRotorMotor

BlueEyes is a fellow Canadian.

Rhawb

Subsidize it or something to at least put a damper on how fast it's going up. I also said "or some other power," since I don't really understand how it all works. I'd just imagine someone would catch on that this could start effecting economies if it goes unchecked for long enough. It's getting out of hand now.

Skythe

I don't think the average Joe understands what "profit" means in relation to businesses. I think people don't understand that AFTER expenses, operating expenditures, paying off share-holders, and any other money that has to be paid out..whatever...this money that is left over is profit. I think people tend to confuse profit with revenue, being the money that is taken in from new business.

eclps0

2.90 for reg
3.10 for prem

the gas guy at shell said reg is going to be 3.30 by the end of this month and end of summer he would be surprised if its going to be in 4 dollar ranger for reg gas

in south Fl

sti_eric

Yep, I'll agree, you have absolutely no idea how it works.
It's called supply and demand. Demand goes up or supply goes down, and prices go up. Whether or not the government pays for it with taxpayer dollars or we pay at the pump, in the end, we still pay the same amount.

If you're talking price controls, we have hundreds of years of history to show that price controls DO NOT WORK!

Just take a look at the blackouts in California a few years ago. Left-wing environmentalist nutjobs in California have made it virtually impossible to build new power plants in California (the last one was built in something like 1982). As a result, the electrical infrastructure could not keep up with the population boom over the last 25 years, forcing the power distributors to import electricity from out of state. On top of this, the left-wing political nutjobs who run California enacted price controls so that the power distributors couldn't charge above a certain threshhold. The prices that they could charge were below the price it cost them to import electricity from out-of-state, since the out-of-state power generators had no price controls. The law of supply and demand says that when prices are low (in this case, held artificially low by price controls), that demand will be high. Since the power distributors couldn't import power without losing money, their only choice was to cut power.

This scenario has played itself out time after time after time in the past and leftists still don't get it. Price controls create shortages!! If you want long lines at the pumps like in the 70s (another price-control created shortage) then demand that the government intervene. If you want to do something helpful: buy a car that gets better mileage; carpool; walk/ride a bike; or, if you're entrepreneurial, start developing a solution such as engines that run on renewables. Most of the people I see complaining have one thing in common - they don't want to have to make any adjustments or sacrifices themselves, they just want to demand that other people do something about it.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

When we speak of oil companies, we're speaking of retrievers of crude oil, and refiners of crude oil into gasoline.

Some are one of these, while others are both.

In either case, they are oligopolistic entities, and do not have to operate in an efficient and truly competitive field.

Again, as I've said before, crude oil stocks are building, and did not diminish during the past very mild winter.

They are manipulating the price of refined gasoline higher by basically refusing to expand existing refinery capacity or build new refineries. Well, that's their official excuse as to why gasoline is soaring, at any rate.

The truth is a whole lot more sinister.

lmitch6

My local station here in Costa Mesa CA was at 3.22 yesterday. I filled up in Newport Beach on Sunday for 3.09. I'm just glad I walk a block to work and don't have to drive with these prices!

Skythe

People are far too quick to through the phrase "conspiracy theory" around to denigrate someone's arguement, when they themselves have little facts to disprove the veracity of such arguement. Just go ahead and google "CIA Enron" and watch the results populate. There's much more going on than simplistic economics...oligopolistic entities as Mr. Rocket said, Do they exist? What about PNAC? What about the Bilderberg Group? Skull and Bones Society? Bavarian Illuminati? What about the New World Order. That's written in latin on the back of the one dollar bill. But who wants to entertain conspiracy theories, when the real conspiracy is making all of these valid accusations seem like conspiracies. But, these theories don't get much play on the news....I wonder why...

Steiner

Record profits for big oil in '05. I thought margins were to remain consistent regardless of the price per barrel? It's bullshit but we keep buying SUV's and OPEC keeps laughing all the way to the bank.

tiggerlee

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

$3.15 USD last night for crummy 91 RON+MON/2 west-coast turtle ****.
At least that same $3.15 got me 93 in Maryland.
The toluene I add is now cheaper than the gas!

Regulation doesn't work, but tax incentives sure do. Getting paid not to work in a strong market is an amazing idiosyncrasy of our current market situation.
Subsidy begat sloth. Now, pull that subsidy and see what happens: even bigger price hikes as the oil boards try to maintain profits.

icyur2

It could be alot worse..we can live in Japan and pay at least TWICE what we are paying now..at least they have an actual train system to alleviate the hurt for the increase in price..ours over here is a joke..amtrak is pathetic..

As for the oil companies..yeah..they need to burn..nice of them to care about the avg. joe/jane :p They are raking it in..now..if the government would only tax the living @#$ out of them..oh, wait..those senators get paid underneath the table..guess us middle-income folks will have to foot the whole damn bill...

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

CBD, I am not about to get political here, but I'll just say that if people aren't at least cognizant of the political links between many people in government positions around the globe today, and entities such as Unocal, The Carlyle Group, Exxon-Mobil and KBR, then it's a real shame.

They are not conspiratorial theories. They are provable facts.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I believe an understanding of oil companies is needed here...

High gas prices are a result of high crude oil prices. The amount of refineries that turn crude oil into gasoline doesn't matter if the price of the oil getting to the refineries is 2x what it should be - refineries are not going to sell gasoline cheaper then the crude oil they refine it from.

Crude is a publically traded commodity with a price determined by the stock market - there is a spot market for buying oil instantly and a futures market for contracts to supply oil xxx days in the future at an agreed price. They are not determined by oil companies. Exxonmobil is making a killing right now because depending on the oil well, it costs about $20/barrel to suck oil out of the ground - however, because the market says its worth $72/barrel - thats what people have to buy it for. If the price would suddenly change to $15/barrel they'd be loosing money and forced to suck it up... thats what happens when a resource is a publically traded commodity.



So whats effecting the price of crude oil and you pocketbook?... 3 things

1) Demand is increasing - but is it increasing at a rate that would double prices? No, so there is more to the story... see next point

2) Investment Firms

A recent study was done which investigated the purchases of oil/natural gas in the market. Historically it has always been ~30/70 split with 30 people buying/selling in a short term investment fashion (buying and selling quick enough to never take possesion, or buying futures and selling the fuel off without ever having posession) and 70 people buying the fuel to actually use. The recent study found the ratio is now 60/40 meaning more day traders are buying fuels on the open market and then reselling them at a profit then people actually buying the fuels to use! Its a great scheme where capital investment firms with big $ buy large quantities, create a bit of a supply problem for people who need the fuel causing prices to spike and then resell it on the market for a profit. Or if some world news rumour starts up, they will buy and wait for panic to sell at an even bigger profit.

Until reform sets in, prices will be abnormally high from this imbalance and volitility will be at a maximum.


I get updated more frequently on the natural gas scene as its my plant's biggest yearly expense. I just read last week that natural gas RESERVES are at an all time high from the mild winter - literally there is no more room in storage facilities to store the stuff. Yet prices are still hovering in the $8-$9 mmBTU range, up from $3-$4 a few years ago. The laws of supply and demand do not make sense anymore.


3) We have a media hell bent on hanging a president. This weekend they made a non-story a horror show - we have never ruled using any part of our military arsenal in history - yet suddenly because of this we are on the brink of a nuclear war. Its bullshit, the media knows its bullshit, but when the price of oil rises $5 overnight in the asian market before our market even opens - its obvious that not many wish to admit its bullshit.

...but then again some of the media outlets also are largely owned by some investment firms found above

Rhawb

btw - I'm not a left wing nutjob. I'm a right wing nutjob. Just been thinking that this is going to start effecting other prices in the economy because of increased transit costs. I'd imagine that it needs to be stabilized somehow to keep a bunch of other things in check.

Michael

Whew, thank God for people who have at least a basic understanding of the oil industry.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Please.

Everything else you said made some sense. But if Fox news is 'hellbent' on hanging Bush, angel food cake fairies will jump out of my *******.

sti_eric

See, here's the problem I have with this kind of a statement (and it's the kind of statement I see everywhere - most notably in 'Letters to the Editor") - you say that gas prices "need to be stabilized" somehow, yet you have no idea how or what this would entail. Obviously you think the government needs to step in and do something - but since when has the government ever made a situation better? Price controls will cause shortages. Why not let the market run its course?

The other part that I have a problem with is that 'someone else' needs to do the job. I contend that it is YOU ('you' as in everybody, not you specifically) that needs to do something. If you want gas prices to go down, get rid of your 15 mpg RX-8 and get a 40 mpg Corolla. But, you want your cake and eat it, too. You want your gas guzzling RX-8 or SUV but you don't want to have to pay the price to keep the car going. It is much easy to demand other people adapt and make sacrifices than it is for you to make sacrifices.

rx8wannahave

I just don't want gas to dictate what car I buy...lack of money already put's a hold on me, I don't want gas to add yet another hold on me.

lol

Solstice here I come...lol.

Skythe

If you think the media, the tool of the elite is hellbent on frying a Bush porkchop, I'd like for you to watch a couple of short films. Goto http://video.google.com Search for two things 1st) "Painful Deceptions" 2nd) "Loose Change 2" Then PM me. I'd like to know what you think after that, so we can have a healthy debate.

Rhawb

Touche, salesman.

Well, I never said that I was too concerned about prices myself. I realize that it's just a fact of life. If I couldn't afford the gas, I would indeed make the move to a much smaller car. My concern is that this is going to be the root of some up and coming inflation which I'd imagine could be stopped if action were taken.

I'm no economic genius, nor have I ever pretended to be one, I've simply stated my casual observation. It sure does seem that if oil prices go up, companies are going to have to pay more for transportation (gas) and that money is going to come in the form of higher priced products. It's a simple idea, but it seems that the pieces fit together. I didn't consider nor do I grasp the inner workings of the oil industry or any industry for that matter, so I could be terribly wrong.

No need to get all worked up about this guys, as I said, I'm uninformed right now, but I'm using this thread to learn about how all this business works.

rx8wannahave

^yup, and meanwhile...pay is as stagnant as it always has been.

Don't they realize we all love to blow our money...IF we have some that is. If not, it's the high end stuff that goes first. Getting that car, electronic, gadget, etc we always wanted get's nailed my reality...our home, utilities, and food are the most important so they better stop complaining that we don't buy enough stuff...frankly, it's just getting priced out of our reach.