Official STi photos
10-12-2007, 10:48 AM
#76
i pwn therefore i am
The SST trans in the MR is not an automatic, it's an automated manual trans which is not the same thing. Not only does it achieve better mileage than the 5 spd manual, in the softest mode it will run as smooth and seamless as an automatic, in the super sport mode it will outshift Michael Schumacher, plus you have the option to manually shift sans clutch pedal via the steering wheel paddle shifter or through the shifter itself. It has two clutchs and two gearshafts. Gears 1, 3, 5 are on one shaft and 2,4,6 are on the other. It senses when you are getting near an up or down shift and moves the gear into position on the non-operating shaft and simultaneously snaps one clutch open and the other one closed to achieve faster than human shifting, plus perfect throttle rev matching on the down shift. The SST also allows left foot braking which makes it different than the VW/Audi/Porsche DSg which kills the throttle if you try to operate the brakes at the same time as the throttle.
Sorry if the US STI power stats was a repost, I missed it ...
Sorry if the US STI power stats was a repost, I missed it ...
My statement about the MR being an automatic is that it isn't a manual transmission. Regardless of how it works, everyone has a very strong opinion about whether they want such a transmission or not. Because of this, I think most people are either going to want the MR or they'll want the 135i/STi. Just a thought.
10-12-2007, 10:58 AM
#77
i pwn therefore i am
But the new coupe is quite sporty, and at least doesn't look tacky. It provides an opportunity where it did not exist before for this market slot. It's also dangerous- it could steal sales from the higher margin cars sitting on the same showroom floor.
Have a look- I think this car could definitely steal sales from the current Japanese offerings
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut.../photo_04.html
Have a look- I think this car could definitely steal sales from the current Japanese offerings
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut.../photo_04.html
It may look better in person, but the pictures are just terrible.
10-12-2007, 11:52 AM
#78
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BMW will have its DSG style tranny in the next M3 shortly. I'd expect to see it used in other applications as awell. Keep in mind most BMW's are bought with an automatic transmission.
I get your point that more than a few BMW buyers are looking for the cache/snob factor and not so much the car. Expect to see alot of 128i running around (no slouch with 230hp either). I do think that those looking for that will go for the 3 series or larger if they can afford it while enthusiats will see the benefit of a TT inline 6 in a lighter more nimble package (along with 4 years of free maintence).
I think anyone would be silly to not look at a 135i, evo, sti. They are all performance cars in the same price range (probably). The STI will probably be more visceral, the Evo more technical and the 135 obviously more luxury.
Anyway you slice it the next couple of years it's going to be good times for the enthusiast.
I get your point that more than a few BMW buyers are looking for the cache/snob factor and not so much the car. Expect to see alot of 128i running around (no slouch with 230hp either). I do think that those looking for that will go for the 3 series or larger if they can afford it while enthusiats will see the benefit of a TT inline 6 in a lighter more nimble package (along with 4 years of free maintence).
I think anyone would be silly to not look at a 135i, evo, sti. They are all performance cars in the same price range (probably). The STI will probably be more visceral, the Evo more technical and the 135 obviously more luxury.
Anyway you slice it the next couple of years it's going to be good times for the enthusiast.
10-12-2007, 05:22 PM
#79
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I've seen the pics and the specs and I don't doubt it will sell well. Personally, I don't think I could ever get over the exterior styling. The profile shot makes it look like the door is concave. The swoopy lines on the doors and lower side fenders are one of the ugliest things I have seen in car design in years -- parts of it remind me of the first generation Tiburon. The front and rear seem fine albeit stereotypically BMW-bland.
It may look better in person, but the pictures are just terrible.
It may look better in person, but the pictures are just terrible.
Well, I'm not a Chris Bangle fan either, but at least it is more sedate looking than the others, which might appeal to other folks.
Like me, for instance!
10-12-2007, 05:25 PM
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I'm 55 years old and I've been a car freak all my life- since before I could drive.
We are spoiled rotten with product today. Although it is a good deal more costly than the "good old days." But stopping a 4300 lb car with a cast iron engine with drum brakes at 120 MPH?
Nah. No more of that.
10-12-2007, 07:50 PM
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I've seen the pics and the specs and I don't doubt it will sell well. Personally, I don't think I could ever get over the exterior styling. The profile shot makes it look like the door is concave. The swoopy lines on the doors and lower side fenders are one of the ugliest things I have seen in car design in years -- parts of it remind me of the first generation Tiburon. The front and rear seem fine albeit stereotypically BMW-bland.
It may look better in person, but the pictures are just terrible.
It may look better in person, but the pictures are just terrible.
10-12-2007, 10:16 PM
#82
Well it better take a big leap in handling like the 2008 Evo or it won't likely keep up except in a straight line
as someone who ran Stock class BMWs for quite a few years before jumping ship, the front end won't grip worth a flip in an autox type situation without major mods, BMW intentionally builds in understeer in the suspension and then throws in staggered wheels for good measure
as someone who ran Stock class BMWs for quite a few years before jumping ship, the front end won't grip worth a flip in an autox type situation without major mods, BMW intentionally builds in understeer in the suspension and then throws in staggered wheels for good measure
Last edited by TeamRX8; 10-12-2007 at 10:20 PM.
10-12-2007, 10:27 PM
#83
Ok, we cannot get into this whole discussion again. Last time we started talking about the semantics and terminology of the new style DSG-like transmissions someone got banned.
My statement about the MR being an automatic is that it isn't a manual transmission. Regardless of how it works, everyone has a very strong opinion about whether they want such a transmission or not. Because of this, I think most people are either going to want the MR or they'll want the 135i/STi. Just a thought.
My statement about the MR being an automatic is that it isn't a manual transmission. Regardless of how it works, everyone has a very strong opinion about whether they want such a transmission or not. Because of this, I think most people are either going to want the MR or they'll want the 135i/STi. Just a thought.
I'm sure there were people who refused to get electric windows and door locks when they came out too. I still to this day refuse to buy an electric can opener
10-12-2007, 11:28 PM
#84
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Okay, I'm late to the party, but YIKES.
Sure, they improved the look a bit, but this turd needs to be polished a whole lot more before it even starts to shine. The basic shape is pretty good actually, especially with the fender flares. So, just swap the headlights for something even slightly aggressive, give it some tail lights that will mesh with the design of the car, and for the love of God, do something to make the damn thing look less like an RX330.
It looks so big, clunky, heavy, and awkward that I just can't see a lot of people desiring this car. The Evo X looks infinitely better, and because of that I think most people will turn their backs on this STi even if it does end up being a few ticks quicker around the track.
Sure, they improved the look a bit, but this turd needs to be polished a whole lot more before it even starts to shine. The basic shape is pretty good actually, especially with the fender flares. So, just swap the headlights for something even slightly aggressive, give it some tail lights that will mesh with the design of the car, and for the love of God, do something to make the damn thing look less like an RX330.
It looks so big, clunky, heavy, and awkward that I just can't see a lot of people desiring this car. The Evo X looks infinitely better, and because of that I think most people will turn their backs on this STi even if it does end up being a few ticks quicker around the track.
10-13-2007, 03:09 PM
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Okay, I'm late to the party, but YIKES.
Sure, they improved the look a bit, but this turd needs to be polished a whole lot more before it even starts to shine. The basic shape is pretty good actually, especially with the fender flares. So, just swap the headlights for something even slightly aggressive, give it some tail lights that will mesh with the design of the car, and for the love of God, do something to make the damn thing look less like an RX330.
It looks so big, clunky, heavy, and awkward that I just can't see a lot of people desiring this car. The Evo X looks infinitely better, and because of that I think most people will turn their backs on this STi even if it does end up being a few ticks quicker around the track.
Sure, they improved the look a bit, but this turd needs to be polished a whole lot more before it even starts to shine. The basic shape is pretty good actually, especially with the fender flares. So, just swap the headlights for something even slightly aggressive, give it some tail lights that will mesh with the design of the car, and for the love of God, do something to make the damn thing look less like an RX330.
It looks so big, clunky, heavy, and awkward that I just can't see a lot of people desiring this car. The Evo X looks infinitely better, and because of that I think most people will turn their backs on this STi even if it does end up being a few ticks quicker around the track.
Lastly... I would assume you feel strongly that the new WRX is even worse looking. Hell, I don't even like that car much and it's a disappointment in the performance department. But guess what, Subaru just sold more Imprezas last month than they have any other month in its history.
P.S. It looks NOTHING like an RX330
Last edited by Ike; 10-13-2007 at 03:12 PM.
10-13-2007, 04:31 PM
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C'mon Rob... The MS3 looks far more bloated than the STI. Also, have you looked at your headlights recently (see below, nothing special, not aggressive)? I expect these type of comments from other people, but not from someone that drives one of those cars that the average person in the US considers ugly.
Lastly... I would assume you feel strongly that the new WRX is even worse looking. Hell, I don't even like that car much and it's a disappointment in the performance department. But guess what, Subaru just sold more Imprezas last month than they have any other month in its history.
P.S. It looks NOTHING like an RX330
Lastly... I would assume you feel strongly that the new WRX is even worse looking. Hell, I don't even like that car much and it's a disappointment in the performance department. But guess what, Subaru just sold more Imprezas last month than they have any other month in its history.
P.S. It looks NOTHING like an RX330
Anyway, I think my main problem is that they sapped all the"coolness" or "edgyness" out of it. Even though I don't always agree with people's comparisons, when a performance-bred car can so quickly and frequently be compared to frumpy Toyotas, Hyundais and Kias, there's something wrong. It has lost its identity, and to the masses, it's just one more rolling refrigerator to choose from. The blandness is why it has been selling, and the gained sales are probably going to Camry and Accord crowd now.
I'm going to go ahead with some slippery slope thinking here. Basically, if Subaru is like any other car company, they're going to see the profits this "soft" Impreza is generating and make the next one cater to this new market. Eventually, if they realize that this blandness sells, they'll start to cater to the boring demographic and ditch the enthusiasts like you and I. We're basically going to lose the WRX completely - It will be truly turned into a rolling appliance. That is, of course, if Subaru stays their current course of making their cars softer.
RE:P.S. - I think the back end of the black one in first picture looks too much like the back end of an RX330.
10-13-2007, 04:53 PM
#88
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Well, my headlights may not be super aggressive, but they beat the rounded, "soft" shape of the Impreza's.
Anyway, I think my main problem is that they sapped all the"coolness" or "edgyness" out of it. Even though I don't always agree with people's comparisons, when a performance-bred car can so quickly and frequently be compared to frumpy Toyotas, Hyundais and Kias, there's something wrong. It has lost its identity, and to the masses, it's just one more rolling refrigerator to choose from. The blandness is why it has been selling, and the gained sales are probably going to Camry and Accord crowd now.
I'm going to go ahead with some slippery slope thinking here. Basically, if Subaru is like any other car company, they're going to see the profits this "soft" Impreza is generating and make the next one cater to this new market. Eventually, if they realize that this blandness sells, they'll start to cater to the boring demographic and ditch the enthusiasts like you and I. We're basically going to lose the WRX completely - It will be truly turned into a rolling appliance. That is, of course, if Subaru stays their current course of making their cars softer.
RE:P.S. - I think the back end of the black one in first picture looks too much like the back end of an RX330.
Anyway, I think my main problem is that they sapped all the"coolness" or "edgyness" out of it. Even though I don't always agree with people's comparisons, when a performance-bred car can so quickly and frequently be compared to frumpy Toyotas, Hyundais and Kias, there's something wrong. It has lost its identity, and to the masses, it's just one more rolling refrigerator to choose from. The blandness is why it has been selling, and the gained sales are probably going to Camry and Accord crowd now.
I'm going to go ahead with some slippery slope thinking here. Basically, if Subaru is like any other car company, they're going to see the profits this "soft" Impreza is generating and make the next one cater to this new market. Eventually, if they realize that this blandness sells, they'll start to cater to the boring demographic and ditch the enthusiasts like you and I. We're basically going to lose the WRX completely - It will be truly turned into a rolling appliance. That is, of course, if Subaru stays their current course of making their cars softer.
RE:P.S. - I think the back end of the black one in first picture looks too much like the back end of an RX330.
Anyhow, I like the new STI, the fender flares are what it need, I like the headlights, and the lack of chrome pieces helps a lot as well. I agree with you on the tails, but that's a VERY easy fix. I'm excited to drive it and see it in person.
10-13-2007, 09:56 PM
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Quite right here. When anti-lock brakes first came out, some car manufacturers refused to use the technology because a good driver could "beat" the anti-locks in apllying stopping power.
That's not true anymore with today's technology.
10-14-2007, 12:15 PM
#91
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I think it looks promising, maybe could look more aggressive, but it is a big improvement of the 2 sedan designs we've seen in the US. Better interior, better exterior styling, and same powerplant with minimal weight gain would put it over the Evo X for me.
10-14-2007, 02:02 PM
#93
It's a Cavalier
I can't figure out if I hate it or like it. Going to have to see it in person before the final decision.
It's definitely not a step forward in the styling department... more a step sideways, with a few very questionable elements.
It's definitely not a step forward in the styling department... more a step sideways, with a few very questionable elements.
10-14-2007, 08:34 PM
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The difference is the AYC, SAWC, and wider tires. There's not going to be as big a difference in handling from the curent Evo to the Evo X as those numbers suggest. Also, I think the current Evo has gotten up to .98g (I know .97 for sure) on a skidpad depending on the mag. Different days, different results.
10-15-2007, 12:07 AM
#98
Power!!
Evo X was faster even though it felt softer and is chunkier. Amazing what a good chassis allows you to do. Kinda like the 8 huh?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6029
Subie stuff.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6054
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6029
Subie stuff.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6054
