Official 2009 Formula 1 Season Discussion
03-19-2009, 01:11 PM
#278
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http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090319....laren-at-jerez
The Spanish sun took on the role of a ray of hope for McLaren on Wednesday, as the beleaguered F1 giant conducted its penultimate day of a troubled pre-season.
At the Jerez test circuit, it was not Heikki Kovalainen's defeat of the only other test runner Kazuki Nakajima that was significant, but the fact the Finn would have been within half a second of Brawn's stunning pace of the day before.
When Brawn and Renault were still circulating on Tuesday, Lewis Hamilton had been more than a second off the pace.
McLaren's post-day press release reflected the improvement: "The test proved extremely productive, both in terms of evaluating the lap time potential of the new components and their effectiveness over the course of a simulated race stint."
McLaren and Williams' final day of running on Thursday marks the formal close of the 2009 winter period.
The Spanish sun took on the role of a ray of hope for McLaren on Wednesday, as the beleaguered F1 giant conducted its penultimate day of a troubled pre-season.
At the Jerez test circuit, it was not Heikki Kovalainen's defeat of the only other test runner Kazuki Nakajima that was significant, but the fact the Finn would have been within half a second of Brawn's stunning pace of the day before.
When Brawn and Renault were still circulating on Tuesday, Lewis Hamilton had been more than a second off the pace.
McLaren's post-day press release reflected the improvement: "The test proved extremely productive, both in terms of evaluating the lap time potential of the new components and their effectiveness over the course of a simulated race stint."
McLaren and Williams' final day of running on Thursday marks the formal close of the 2009 winter period.
03-20-2009, 11:18 AM
#281
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UHHH OHHHHH....Looks like the FIA has run afoul of the rules. Without the agreement of ALL teams, the FIA can't change the rules for 2009 so close to the start of the season. "The regulation in question says that changes to the sporting regulations have to be "published at least 20 days prior to the opening date for entry applications for the championship concerned" unless "the unanimous agreement of all competitors properly entered for the championship or series concerned is obtained."
03-20-2009, 02:08 PM
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UHHH OHHHHH....Looks like the FIA has run afoul of the rules. Without the agreement of ALL teams, the FIA can't change the rules for 2009 so close to the start of the season. "The regulation in question says that changes to the sporting regulations have to be "published at least 20 days prior to the opening date for entry applications for the championship concerned" unless "the unanimous agreement of all competitors properly entered for the championship or series concerned is obtained."
I don't know the details, but we can be sure it will be put under scrutiny. Especially if the winner this year does not have the most points
03-21-2009, 01:42 AM
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I might be wrong but I think I read it was agreed upon by FOTA and FIA together. I would believe that FOTA has the right to represent all involved parties. Therefore it is within the rules.
I don't know the details, but we can be sure it will be put under scrutiny. Especially if the winner this year does not have the most points
I don't know the details, but we can be sure it will be put under scrutiny. Especially if the winner this year does not have the most points
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...20164731.shtml
And here is FIA ready to back off:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...20191538.shtml
03-21-2009, 04:33 AM
#284
I hope to see a FOTA world championship soon, instead of FIA's one.
Hell, they are making the best racing league a mere merchandise. I can accept that in the NFL, where at least the tougher guys win but with cars involved it is really hard to accept it.
Hell, they are making the best racing league a mere merchandise. I can accept that in the NFL, where at least the tougher guys win but with cars involved it is really hard to accept it.
03-21-2009, 12:01 PM
#285
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http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090321....scoring-system
F1's governing body has agreed to call off the immediate implementation of its newly announced 'winner takes all' scoring system, amid the determined opposition of the teams.
The FOTA team alliance on Friday said it had gathered in the wake of the World Motor Sport Council's announcement this week "to question the validity of this decision".
It had been becoming clear to observers that the scoring rule change, and the voluntary budget cap for 2010, was part of the wider political battle over the future of the sport.
In implementing the 'gold medals'-style system championed by Bernie Ecclestone, the FIA seemed to have deliberately ignored FOTA's separate proposal, where the points difference between first and second places is simply increased from 2 to 3 points.
"FOTA had made a proposal that was carefully based on the results of a Global Audience Survey, which allowed listening to preferences of the public, and all the Teams firmly believe that these indications should be properly taken into account," the teams' Friday statement read.
FOTA also claims the rule change contravened Appendix 5 of the Sporting Regulations and article 199 of the International Sporting Code, where it is "too late for (the) FIA to impose a change ... that has not obtained the unanimous agreement of all the" teams.
In its own subsequent statement, in which the FIA suggests that Ecclestone "had been told that the teams were in favour" of the gold medals scheme, F1's governing body backed down.
"If, for any reason, the formula one teams do not now agree with the new system, its implementation will be deferred until 2010," the FIA said.
FOTA said the teams are willing to "collaborate with the FIA" for a jointly-defined new points system for 2010.
Source: GMM
F1's governing body has agreed to call off the immediate implementation of its newly announced 'winner takes all' scoring system, amid the determined opposition of the teams.
The FOTA team alliance on Friday said it had gathered in the wake of the World Motor Sport Council's announcement this week "to question the validity of this decision".
It had been becoming clear to observers that the scoring rule change, and the voluntary budget cap for 2010, was part of the wider political battle over the future of the sport.
In implementing the 'gold medals'-style system championed by Bernie Ecclestone, the FIA seemed to have deliberately ignored FOTA's separate proposal, where the points difference between first and second places is simply increased from 2 to 3 points.
"FOTA had made a proposal that was carefully based on the results of a Global Audience Survey, which allowed listening to preferences of the public, and all the Teams firmly believe that these indications should be properly taken into account," the teams' Friday statement read.
FOTA also claims the rule change contravened Appendix 5 of the Sporting Regulations and article 199 of the International Sporting Code, where it is "too late for (the) FIA to impose a change ... that has not obtained the unanimous agreement of all the" teams.
In its own subsequent statement, in which the FIA suggests that Ecclestone "had been told that the teams were in favour" of the gold medals scheme, F1's governing body backed down.
"If, for any reason, the formula one teams do not now agree with the new system, its implementation will be deferred until 2010," the FIA said.
FOTA said the teams are willing to "collaborate with the FIA" for a jointly-defined new points system for 2010.
Source: GMM
03-23-2009, 04:07 PM
#286
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http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090323....t-play---lauda
Niki Lauda has described the latest "ill-considered" moves of the FIA a typical attempt to catch the powerful teams offside.
The triple world champion, who has also tasted the flavour of the backroom politics firsthand as a Ferrari advisor and latterly Jaguar team boss, said he suspects the saga is a shot amid the sport's power struggle.
The 60-year-old told Sport Bild the row over the scoring system introduction, and the forthcoming voluntary budget cap, is a "typical high-speed" manoeuvre by Max Mosley "in order to pressurise the manufacturers".
"Everything was completely ill-considered," Lauda added.
Ill-considered, Lauda argues, but not necessarily a mistake by the FIA president. Indeed, Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone have separately confirmed that the budget cap proposal is provisional and open to negotiation.
Less cunning, however, is the FIA's handling so far of the rear-diffuser issue, according to Lauda, with possible protests looming over the season opener due to the vague wording of the regulations.
"The FIA should have made (the issue) more clear, especially as it (the rear diffuser) is such an important part," he told the German newspaper Bild.
Niki Lauda has described the latest "ill-considered" moves of the FIA a typical attempt to catch the powerful teams offside.
The triple world champion, who has also tasted the flavour of the backroom politics firsthand as a Ferrari advisor and latterly Jaguar team boss, said he suspects the saga is a shot amid the sport's power struggle.
The 60-year-old told Sport Bild the row over the scoring system introduction, and the forthcoming voluntary budget cap, is a "typical high-speed" manoeuvre by Max Mosley "in order to pressurise the manufacturers".
"Everything was completely ill-considered," Lauda added.
Ill-considered, Lauda argues, but not necessarily a mistake by the FIA president. Indeed, Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone have separately confirmed that the budget cap proposal is provisional and open to negotiation.
Less cunning, however, is the FIA's handling so far of the rear-diffuser issue, according to Lauda, with possible protests looming over the season opener due to the vague wording of the regulations.
"The FIA should have made (the issue) more clear, especially as it (the rear diffuser) is such an important part," he told the German newspaper Bild.
03-25-2009, 10:04 AM
#287
More News for Discussion
http://www.crash.net/formula+one/new...rand_prix.html
Ecclestone: Greedy F1 teams killed off US Grand Prix
The absence of the US Grand Prix from the Formula 1 calendar is the fault of the sport's teams for
demanding too much money to race there – that is the assertion of commercial rights-holder Bernie
Ecclestone.
The event was held at Indianapolis from 2000 to 2007, but fell out of favour after Indianapolis Motor
Speedway owner Tony George and Ecclestone's Formula One Management (FOM) company could
not come to a financial agreement to extend the contract.
That prompted outrage from F1 team bosses, with many of the manufacturers seeing America as a
key selling market for their cars and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) understood to be
pushing hard for a return to the continent. With the Canadian Grand Prix similarly having dropped
off the schedule in 2009, this year marks the first in more than half a century that there will be no
North American race on the calendar.
Despite the teams' desire to see the grand prix re-instated, however, Ecclestone has pinned the
blame for its loss entirely at their door.
“The teams wanted too much money to race there,” the 78-year-old told German news agency SID.
“That was the problem. We are talking, but for the moment the teams do not want any more than 17
races.”
Ecclestone added that whilst discussions regarding a return are ongoing, Indianapolis would not be
welcoming the top flight again anytime soon, insisting: “We would go elsewhere.”
The US Grand Prix has previously been held at Phoenix, Watkins Glen, Long Beach and Las Vegas
amongst other venues.
------------------------------------
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73888
F1 braced for diffuser protests
By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, March 25th 2009, 08:45 GMT
Brawn's innovative diffuser, 2009, JerezFormula 1 is bracing itself for a showdown over the diffuser row
in Melbourne tomorrow, with at least one team expected to join Red Bull Racing in lodging a protest
against Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams.
With the controversy already overshadowing what looks set to be a thrilling start to the season, it is
understood that there will be a joint effort from a number of outfits to seek clarification about whether
the diffuser designs of the three teams in question are legal.
Teams were tight-lipped about the matter as F1 personnel gathered at the Albert Park circuit on
Wednesday, but talks were taking place behind-the-scenes to finalise the expected course of events
on Thursday.
(There is more to the article. Click the link.)
Ecclestone: Greedy F1 teams killed off US Grand Prix
The absence of the US Grand Prix from the Formula 1 calendar is the fault of the sport's teams for
demanding too much money to race there – that is the assertion of commercial rights-holder Bernie
Ecclestone.
The event was held at Indianapolis from 2000 to 2007, but fell out of favour after Indianapolis Motor
Speedway owner Tony George and Ecclestone's Formula One Management (FOM) company could
not come to a financial agreement to extend the contract.
That prompted outrage from F1 team bosses, with many of the manufacturers seeing America as a
key selling market for their cars and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) understood to be
pushing hard for a return to the continent. With the Canadian Grand Prix similarly having dropped
off the schedule in 2009, this year marks the first in more than half a century that there will be no
North American race on the calendar.
Despite the teams' desire to see the grand prix re-instated, however, Ecclestone has pinned the
blame for its loss entirely at their door.
“The teams wanted too much money to race there,” the 78-year-old told German news agency SID.
“That was the problem. We are talking, but for the moment the teams do not want any more than 17
races.”
Ecclestone added that whilst discussions regarding a return are ongoing, Indianapolis would not be
welcoming the top flight again anytime soon, insisting: “We would go elsewhere.”
The US Grand Prix has previously been held at Phoenix, Watkins Glen, Long Beach and Las Vegas
amongst other venues.
------------------------------------
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73888
F1 braced for diffuser protests
By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, March 25th 2009, 08:45 GMT
Brawn's innovative diffuser, 2009, JerezFormula 1 is bracing itself for a showdown over the diffuser row
in Melbourne tomorrow, with at least one team expected to join Red Bull Racing in lodging a protest
against Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams.
With the controversy already overshadowing what looks set to be a thrilling start to the season, it is
understood that there will be a joint effort from a number of outfits to seek clarification about whether
the diffuser designs of the three teams in question are legal.
Teams were tight-lipped about the matter as F1 personnel gathered at the Albert Park circuit on
Wednesday, but talks were taking place behind-the-scenes to finalise the expected course of events
on Thursday.
(There is more to the article. Click the link.)
03-25-2009, 10:50 AM
#288
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When the issue first came up, I thought the other teams just had "sour grapes" I mean F1 is supposed to be all about innovation, and clearly Brawn got it right....HOWEVER, the rules are the rules and if they're outside the regs on the diffuser, then I guess Brawn, Toyota and Williams were victims of their own ingenuity. One thing that is pissing me off, don't let the issue linger, the FIA and stewarts need to sit down and get this whole mess sorted out before the first race...it seems pointless to wait when several teams are already complaining about it...
03-25-2009, 10:54 AM
#289
When the issue first came up, I thought the other teams just had "sour grapes" I mean F1 is supposed to be all about innovation, and clearly Brawn got it right....HOWEVER, the rules are the rules and if they're outside the regs on the diffuser, then I guess Brawn, Toyota and Williams were victims of their own ingenuity. One thing that is pissing me off, don't let the issue linger, the FIA and stewarts need to sit down and get this whole mess sorted out before the first race...it seems pointless to wait when several teams are already complaining about it...
If their design is forbidden by regs, they will be at a disadvantage for a couple of races until they get a working package together.
Last edited by alnielsen; 03-25-2009 at 10:58 AM.
03-25-2009, 11:10 AM
#291
Registered
this is what i can never undersstand. why would teams wait 1-2 weeks before melborne to voice their opinion on the diffusers. its not like brawn and williams started testing their cars a week before Melborne.
Last edited by alfy28; 03-25-2009 at 11:13 AM.
03-25-2009, 11:16 AM
#292
For the teams, racing is a business. You beat them anyway you can. Either on the track or by beating them over the head with the rule book. You are always looking for an advantage. In this case, you wait until it's too late to do anything about it. If they brought a car that was illegal to the race, should they win? Should they even be able to compete. It's the teams duty to field a legal car.
03-25-2009, 11:30 AM
#293
Registered
For the teams, racing is a business. You beat them anyway you can. Either on the track or by beating them over the head with the rule book. You are always looking for an advantage. In this case, you wait until it's too late to do anything about it. If they brought a car that was illegal to the race, should they win? Should they even be able to compete. It's the teams duty to field a legal car.
Last edited by alfy28; 03-25-2009 at 11:38 AM.
03-25-2009, 11:45 AM
#294
Registered
Kimi Raikkonen would have thrived under the 'winner takes all' scoring system, according to his manager.
Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA wanted this year's champion to be crowned only after he won the greatest number of races, but the late change was rejected by the F1 teams' alliance FOTA.
2007 world champion Raikkonen's manager Steve Robertson, however, said ultimate racers including his Finnish charge would have welcomed the system.
"Kimi is the ultimate type of winner, who drives for the victory until the last lap," he told the Finnish daily Turun Sanomat.
"I believe it (the scoring system) would have suited him.
"Right now second place is good enough if you can't win, but the FIA decision would have made the difference between victory and second place gigantic," Robertson added.
i take it he didnt watch last session race. because i felt kimi was drinking a Latte the whole time. .
Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA wanted this year's champion to be crowned only after he won the greatest number of races, but the late change was rejected by the F1 teams' alliance FOTA.
2007 world champion Raikkonen's manager Steve Robertson, however, said ultimate racers including his Finnish charge would have welcomed the system.
"Kimi is the ultimate type of winner, who drives for the victory until the last lap," he told the Finnish daily Turun Sanomat.
"I believe it (the scoring system) would have suited him.
"Right now second place is good enough if you can't win, but the FIA decision would have made the difference between victory and second place gigantic," Robertson added.
i take it he didnt watch last session race. because i felt kimi was drinking a Latte the whole time. .
Last edited by alfy28; 03-25-2009 at 11:50 AM.
03-25-2009, 01:00 PM
#296
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And no I am not fanatical, considering I'm a Hamilton fan. We will see at the end of the season.
03-25-2009, 01:42 PM
#297
Registered
i agree with you. but only because his career with ferrari depends on it. especially with alonso wanting to be with ferrari next session. sometimes i feel taht kimi is bored with F1 and wants to move to something more exciting (rally racing) but that is just me.
Last edited by alfy28; 03-25-2009 at 01:45 PM.
03-25-2009, 01:52 PM
#298
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Yeah, sometimes it seems like his heart isn't in it. And I realize he's got that subdued personality (kind of like Mika was) but damn, after some fantastic performances he's like "ya, I won no biggie"
03-25-2009, 07:29 PM
#299
http://www.f1technical.net/news/11888
Some aero interpretations not in spirit of rules - Domenicali
Without mentioning any teams in particular, Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has spoken
out about the aerodynamic elements that some teams are using, and which are considered by
many to be against the spirit of the rules.
"We are convinced certain interpretations that have been applied do not correspond to the nature
of the rules," Domenicali told the 'Guardian'.
The areas under question are the diffusers on at least three teams at the moment, the three
being the Williams F1 team, the Toyota F1 team, and the Brawn GP team.
Red Bull Racing has already threatened to protest the legality of these teams diffuser designs
during the season opening Australian GP this weekend.
--------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7957788.stm
(also at : http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=37302 )
New teams for 2010 - Ecclestone
Bernie Ecclestone has revealed there will be three new teams joining Formula 1 next season.
The F1 supremo said 26 cars will be on the starting grid for the 2010 campaign and that a
medals-system will determine the championship.
"We'll have 26 cars on the grid next year - we've got a lot of people confirmed," said Ecclestone.
"It won't be necessary to discuss it (the medals). If the rules are out before they enter that's how it is."
Last Sunday, Ecclestone was asked if he was disappointed by the decision to ditch the system for
this year.
"Absolutely - if you go to the athletics and look at the 100m you're not looking at the guy that's second,
you're looking at the winner," he told BBC Radio 5 Live's Sportsweek programme last Sunday.
Lewis (Hamilton) last year was second in a couple of races he could easily have won and he was
quite right in being second
"To make any changes when the entries have closed, you have to get a unanimous agreement
between all the people that have entered, and it would appear that some of the teams didn't like the idea.
"The whole idea is nothing to do with winning the world championship, the idea was to make sure people
raced in every race to win, not to be second or third and collect points."
The new system means that a driver could wrap up the title well before the end of the year, but
Ecclestone brushed off suggestions it could potentially kill off interest in the sport.
"That's too bad. Maybe they'd be watching the other races where the people are racing to win rather
than be second," said Ecclestone.
I just hope FOTA can make the FIA forget all about the "most wins" system and get them to agree
to a new points system.
And he referred to a couple of races from the 2008 championship as examples of how the present
scoring system discouraged attacking driving.
"Lewis (Hamilton) last year was second in a couple of races he could easily have won, and he was
quite right in being second," said Ecclestone.
"If I'd have been his team manager I'd have been complaining if he'd been racing to win, in case there
was a problem in the car or he fell off the road."
Defending champion Hamilton has been off the pace in pre-season testing but Ecclestone said he
"absolutely" believed Hamilton remained the man to beat, adding "certainly if we had that other
scoring system he would be".
Some aero interpretations not in spirit of rules - Domenicali
Without mentioning any teams in particular, Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has spoken
out about the aerodynamic elements that some teams are using, and which are considered by
many to be against the spirit of the rules.
"We are convinced certain interpretations that have been applied do not correspond to the nature
of the rules," Domenicali told the 'Guardian'.
The areas under question are the diffusers on at least three teams at the moment, the three
being the Williams F1 team, the Toyota F1 team, and the Brawn GP team.
Red Bull Racing has already threatened to protest the legality of these teams diffuser designs
during the season opening Australian GP this weekend.
--------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7957788.stm
(also at : http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=37302 )
New teams for 2010 - Ecclestone
Bernie Ecclestone has revealed there will be three new teams joining Formula 1 next season.
The F1 supremo said 26 cars will be on the starting grid for the 2010 campaign and that a
medals-system will determine the championship.
"We'll have 26 cars on the grid next year - we've got a lot of people confirmed," said Ecclestone.
"It won't be necessary to discuss it (the medals). If the rules are out before they enter that's how it is."
Last Sunday, Ecclestone was asked if he was disappointed by the decision to ditch the system for
this year.
"Absolutely - if you go to the athletics and look at the 100m you're not looking at the guy that's second,
you're looking at the winner," he told BBC Radio 5 Live's Sportsweek programme last Sunday.
Lewis (Hamilton) last year was second in a couple of races he could easily have won and he was
quite right in being second
"To make any changes when the entries have closed, you have to get a unanimous agreement
between all the people that have entered, and it would appear that some of the teams didn't like the idea.
"The whole idea is nothing to do with winning the world championship, the idea was to make sure people
raced in every race to win, not to be second or third and collect points."
The new system means that a driver could wrap up the title well before the end of the year, but
Ecclestone brushed off suggestions it could potentially kill off interest in the sport.
"That's too bad. Maybe they'd be watching the other races where the people are racing to win rather
than be second," said Ecclestone.
I just hope FOTA can make the FIA forget all about the "most wins" system and get them to agree
to a new points system.
And he referred to a couple of races from the 2008 championship as examples of how the present
scoring system discouraged attacking driving.
"Lewis (Hamilton) last year was second in a couple of races he could easily have won, and he was
quite right in being second," said Ecclestone.
"If I'd have been his team manager I'd have been complaining if he'd been racing to win, in case there
was a problem in the car or he fell off the road."
Defending champion Hamilton has been off the pace in pre-season testing but Ecclestone said he
"absolutely" believed Hamilton remained the man to beat, adding "certainly if we had that other
scoring system he would be".
