GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I saw what looked like a 2005 Outback wagon in Tokyo last week. I didn't think they sold Outbacks in Japan, but that's what it looked like. Anyway, it was sharp - not as gimmicky as my wife's 2001 Outback VDC - a nice improvement. If I had the cash, I'd be trading in the VDC for a new 2.5GT wagon, either an Outback or Legacy model. Or possibly one of the 3.0 L models, now that they come with a respectable 5 speed transmission. Either way, the new Legacys sound sweet, and I think Subaru has a winner on it's hands.

The 50/50 (manual) or 45/55 (automatic) torque split may not be perfect for an enthusiast's car, but it's a faw cry from fatally flawed, in my opinion. My 2001 VDC with 45/55 split actually rotates like a RWD car, especially in the snow. It's one of the reasons I opted for the VDC - I didn't like the FWD bias of the older Outbacks. And with variable torque distribution (auto only), the system will send more torque rearward as you accelerate.

Anyway, even the fixed 50/50 system is much better than the system you get on the Golf R32, wich is 100% front until the electronics decide otherwise. That's just not right on an enthusiat's car.

Skyline Maniac

The new Legacy is a very solid car in the performance sedan/wagon segment. From the pictures it seems the interior is nice enough, plenty of room, Acura styling, and performance spec that is hard to beat at this price point.

Don't start dissing the Legacy's suspension either, it has proven itself track worthy on Japanese publications for awhile now. The Legacy can easily hang with the RX-8 on the track and probably beating it. The new Best Motoring has a video of the new 4 door sedan battle with Legacy vs G35 vs IS300 vs TSX Type R........ I havn't seen the video yet, but the outcome will speak for itself.

9-K Rever

I can't wait to see that best motoring either. I have all confidence that my new Legacy will be faster than my 8.

I drove the automatic 2.5gt...the supension is soft...please do not associate soft with bad.. because I don't.

Do I think it can be a bit stiffer...yes.. but, thats all personal preffrence. My Legacy is not my 8..totaly diffrent vehicals..totaly difrent driveing experiences.

I am going on Wednesday to finalize the paper work. Car may not be in by then but I am haveing the dealer do some work to it at DPI.

1) STI Short Shifter

2) Potenza RE750's mounted and ballenced...(I will use the RE92's in the winter)

3) I will get a autodiming rearview mirror...what can I say...the 8 made that a must for me...

Then when I get it home..I will debage it and try to get my old strut tower brace on it.. I don't want the extra Subaru badge on the back or the 2.5GT badge.. I want the rear to look like the JDM model.

Ike

If you want to save some money skip the STi short shifter and get a Kartboy or some other aftermarket SS.

Hanzo

Only problem with Kartboy is it makes a bit more noise but it is a lot cheaper for sure.

9-K Rever

I am going to support the dealer after market on this one. Plus, I am going to try to leverage it for free instalation.

9-K Rever

Keshav

Looking forward to your review, 9-K. That is exactly the car I'm considering later this year.

9-K Rever

Oh boy oh boy guys... I am not happy with my new Legacy purchasing experience today.

I went in to the dealer today to put a down payment on the Legacy. When I came into the business office they looked at me like.."Yikes...but the car isn't here yet." Doesn't matter..I just want them to know I am not playing.

Took care of that, told them I would like some extra's. They let me know that the car has a auto diming mirror on it..and that if I get the tires from them they would mark them up so I would be better off getting them elsewhere... I was like cool.. They told me they would have to call the parts rep to see if they have the STI shifter in stock, becuase they didn't have it in. I was like cool..

I know the district parts rep by name..he is a cool guy, I have faith in him.

Now, the part I don't understand is... If they know this much.. WHY CAN"T THEY TELL ME WHEN THE CAR WILL BE HERE!!!

Come on Subaru..WTF...

I orderd my RX8 in February..got it in August and Mazda knew exactly when it shipped and when it would be deliverd. I got a call on the exact date they said.

So, right now my car is in limbo..but I will be the first owner of a 5 speed 2.5GT in Richmond VA.

9-K Rever

Ike

My local Subaru dealer has a full aftermarket support department including a few different SS to choose from, BoVs, and the list goes on an on. It's quite rare though since Subaru has really cracked down on warranty with on cars with aftermarket parts.

I would say if they don't know when it's going to be there it hasn't been put on a boat/truck yet and they don't just want to guess...

9-K Rever

Yes, I have heard abit about Subaru being cheap with after market mods..and warrenties.. I have been out of the Subie game for a while (obviously) whats the deal with that?

If the car isn't on a truck right as we speak..I will be sooo pissed..

They could just be upfront and tell me..don't lie to me.

9-K Rever

9-K Rever

Here are some engine specs on the Leagcy Engine..

13.5lbs of boost...

Wonder if I can crank that up to 15..

Force-fed Power for 2

The introduction of the 2005 models to the US includes that of the 2.5 liter, horizontally opposed, turbocharged 4-cylinder. This engine is based on the Subaru Impreza WRX STi unit, but has a different cylinder block, turbocharger and intercooler. Subaru outfits a new cross-flow intercooler on the Legacy and Outback to reduce intercooler size and increase efficiency. Combining the more efficient intercooler with the Active Valve Control System (AVCS) and 13.5 psi of boost, the 2.5 F/I motor provides a hefty torque curve above 2000 rpms. These changes, unique to the Legacy and Outback, result in a power output of 250-hp at 5600 rpm and 250lb-ft of torque at 3600 rpm.

Along with the new engine come new or revised transmissions. The Legacy and Outback each have optional 5-speed automatics featuring Sportshift, which also now includes steering wheel shift buttons as well as some new shift programs. These programs include semi-manual modes allowing you to go into a temporary sport mode for passing or a short stint of spirited driving. The shift programs also now read information from lateral-g sensors to sense when a driver is in a turn and will prevent the car from shifting unnecessarily during turns, providing a more stable and reassuring ride.

The transmission also uses a Direct Control System that is supposed to improve shift speed and response. Now with five gears instead of four, Subaru tightened the gear ratios leaving 5th nearly equivalent to the previous 4th, allowing for a more spirited driving response and better acceleration. The 4-speed automatic transmission is slightly changed from last year, including fewer moving parts, redesigned electronic controls, and more precise shift patterns.

The 5-speed manual transmission has also changed, rather than being a direct carry over from the performance WRX. The 5MT features a new dual-mass flywheel, double-cone synchros in 1st gear, shortened travel and dampers have been added to reduce noise, vibration and harshness.

Hanzo

Looks like a good design. Actually the engine looks to be an updated version of the STI motor for better cooling. I am sure the next STI will utilize this new layout as well. Smaller top mount intercooler reduce weight especially up high where weight saving is crucial.

9-K Rever

I just got a huge bit of bad news from the dealer. He told me their is a stop sell on all 2005 Legacy's and a recall for all the ones on dealer lots. They said the airbags are being re-done at port. He told me that the one I have on order will be in on June 14th..wich is not bad..but I am still getting the feeling I am being B.Sed by my dealer. I don't want this to ruin my experience because my patience is wearing thin..I have to say.. I can easily get something else with the money. Now..do I realy want the legacy..YES...can I wait till the 14th...YES...but do I liked being BSED...NO.

9-K Rever

AAACCKK...Breaking news... I did not know that the 05 Legacys are buit in the US....at the Indiana plant!! I have been schooled today!

http://www.subaru-sia.com/news/release/20040227.pdf

Skyline Maniac

OUCH! That's gotta hurt.

9-K Rever

Yeah..so..I wonder if there will be quality issues...

ricks8

I wouldn't worry about it

Camrys, Avalons, and Solaras are built in Kentucky. Honda Odysseys are built in Alabama. They are consistenly high quality. Quality has less to do with the location and more to do with the culture of the corporation and union laborers.

BMW just announced plans for a plant in China. I wouldn't be suprised if in 10 years alot of cars are made there.

9-K Rever

ricks8...Yes very very true.

Its just the initial shock.. But, turbo Legacy's have only been built in Japan up untill now so I just worry about the quality of job they will do with the first all new turbo model here in the U.S. But, I am still getting it regardless.

Strider

I thought that sounded off, that the cars were 'stuck at port'. I saw a few Legacys around about 2 months ago... then again I'm about 15 minutes away from the plant.

Not sure where the dealership is around here or I would like to take one out for a bit just to see how it drives.

9-K Rever

Breaking News!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subaru of America, Inc. Announces Voluntary Recall of 2005 Legacy Sedans and Outback Sedans

- Campaign to Address Side Curtain Airbag Problem -


CHERRY HILL, N.J., June 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Subaru of America, Inc. today announced a voluntary recall on 2005 Legacy Sedan and Outback Sedan models to address a side curtain airbag problem.
This recall involves all 2005 model-year Subaru Legacy Sedan and Outback Sedan models. The affected vehicles were produced at Subaru of Indiana Automotive, Inc. between October 2, 2003 and June 1, 2004. While approximately 1,960 vehicles are affected, only 130 vehicles have been retailed.

The affected vehicles comply with the current side impact requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards 201P and 214D. However, the newly designed side curtain airbags on the affected vehicles were not built to proper Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. specifications, which provide added occupant head protection, and therefore may not offer proper head protection in side impact crashes. There have been no accidents or injuries attributed to this problem.

In early June, Subaru will notify all owners of the 130 retailed vehicles by telephone and by mail to return their vehicles to a Subaru dealer for installation of new side curtain airbags at no charge to the owner.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I drove a ‘05 Legacy today, while waiting for my ‘01 Outback VDC to be serviced.

They had several on the lot - all at a whopping $5k dealer markup. Totally insane. But I digress.

I was focused on a wagon, and they had both a GT Ltd. Wagon, and a 2.5 XT Outback wagon side by side. My first reaction to the GT wagon was that, with it’s smaller diameter tires and lower ride height, looked a little funny - a little “rice,” if you will. I’m sure that’s due to seeing Legacy wagons in Outback trim all these years, but to my eye, the Outback wagon just looked right, while the GT wagon looked a bit odd. I’m sure it would be easy to get used to, but I was surprised by my reaction.

I decided to take the Outback out, as it had the automatic, and that’s the way I’d probably but it - turbo auto, if not H-6 auto (they didn’t have any of those on the lot, unfortunately).

First reaction is that the interior is indeed a nice step up from the ‘04s. Better leather, nice clean dash design with none of that funky fake wood, and a very nice instrument panel. Dual zone climate is nice, but the stereo isn’t up to the McIntosh in my VDC. No question about it - the interior is great.

Once underway, you can feel the more rigid platform. The steering is more firmly weighted than the older cars, and feels much more direct (didn’t drive it hard enough to comment on feedback). The suspension feels firmer too - perhaps too firm for an Outback. While I’m sure the suspension tuning for the GT will be great, I wonder if they went too far for an Outback. Certainly better on the street but what about those gravel roads, etc? Time will tell on that one, I suppose.

Now, how about power? I must say that I expected to be blown away by the turbo four. All that torque - it should be very impressive. But, surprisingly, it didn’t seem to be “all that.” First impression is that an Outback wagon, anyway, is slower than an ‘8. Certainly a huge step forward from my ‘01 H-6 Outback, but it didn’t push me into the seat like I expected it to. I’m sure those tall tires had something to do with this, however. The boxer four had a nice growl to it, but was somewhat subdued. Certainly quieter than a WRX, say, and smoother than the 2.5 L 2001 Outback I test drove three years ago. The coarseness of that car was one of the reasons I bought an H-6, but they new car is much nicer, and I wouldn’t have any qualms going with the four now, especially with the turbo.

The new auto is also a big step forward from the old 4 speed auto. The gear ratios are much better suited to the engine, making it easy to keep the car on full boil. I got to take it through some 1-2-3 full throttle shift sequences and I must say it’s a huge step forward from my 4 speed H-6 combo, which falls off the torque curve with every shift. Very nice and the steering wheel buttons were great. Shifting smoothness & quickness is better as well, but still not up to Honda or Audi automatic standards.

I look forward to 9-Ks review of a GT sedan. With it’s 300 lb lighter curb weight and smaller diameter wheels, it should offer the performance I was expecting to see in the Outback.

9-K Rever

GeorgeH,

Great review. I apprieciate the time you took to make such a detailed report.

I have read a couple of reviews regarding the the 05'H6 compared to the turbo version, and it looks like the turbo would be a better buy when you take in consideration it has more tourque and weighs less then the H6..kinda makes you wonder why they kept it in the line up competeing with the turbo 4.

I test drove a 4AMT G.T they had at the dealer. From that experience I agree with you about the power. I was not as thrilled with the auto-shift as you were and they power was not as jaw dropping as I expected. To tell you the truth, I thought the Forester felt like a faster vehical. But, it was a 4AMT and it was new so I did not push it at all.

I was also expecting the growl and frieght train pull of the STI motor, and that was not there. In the regular STI the car pulls like a big german V8 w/o the wieght of such a a vehical.

That was not present either.

The suspension set up was on par with my old 2001 Legacy, for my taste and compared to an RX8 suspension is soft.

But, comfortable. I don't think anyone will complain about being in that car for a lengthy drive, as I do with my 8. I dread long distance drives in my 8..gas and supension hates going straight on a hwy for hours on end.


But, I saw a add in Car and Driver for the Legacy Wagon with its 0-60 time at 5.6 seconds....said it was faster than the Porche Chyanee and some other pretty quick cars..look out for that add.

So, if they Legacy wagon is doing 5.6 the sedan should be around 5.4...

I will have the first 5MT GT in my area...so when I get it I will be sure to do some 0-60 tests.

9-K Rever

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Good luck with the Legacy - I'm sure you will love it. I'm a bit surprised to hear you don't like the '8 for long drives, but then I've taken many long road trips in my Miata, with no A/C or power steering, so to me the '8 feels like a luxo-barge. OK, not really, but it sure is more relaxing on long drives than the Miata. I guess outlook is based on context.

George

p.s. Perhaps a bit of toe-in on the front could settle your car down on the freeway?

9-K Rever

Awsome PDF...

http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/Temp/{2589cb8d-3d3d-4506-87a4-7ff44b2cb343}/2005%20Legacy%202.5%20GT%20Specs.pdf

Copy and paste it into your browser.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Cool link - I was wondering how the gearing compares between the manual and the automatic. The manual clearly has shorter gearing, especially in first & third. That should help the car feel quicker. I wonder if the Outback uses the same gearing as the GT? If so, the tall tires would make the car even slower. Which would mean I tested the slowest possible Legacy, other than the normally aspirated 2.5L models.