ArvinC

Hello all. Just wondering what the forum thinks concerning the current crop of sports cars...specifically those in the $20,000-$40,000 range. There is some debate among my family and friends as to how well today's cars will be remembered when compared to recent history.

Many car enthusiasts will point to the late-80's/early-90's as the most recent "Golden Age" of the sports car. Back then the FDs, 300Zs, Supras, 3000GT VR-4s/Stealth R/Ts, Corvettes and Mustangs ruled with the big bang-for-the-buck award going to the Camaros/Firebirds with their brutish V-8 power. These cars were viciously fast and some of them were pretty big sellers.

Today, the usual suspects abound: our beloved RX-8s, 350Zs, Corvettes and Mustangs are here, but they are joined by the S2000, RSXs, WRXs and Evos. New cars with new technolgies, but performance-wise, the two eras are very close.

So my question to you is, how are today's crop of "affordable" sports cars going to be looked at down the road? Is today the "New Golden Age" of the sports car?

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions.

Arvin

Feras

iTrader: (1)

well in the early 90s we were concerned with the environment and saving on gas, and by the mid 90s the last age of the sports car died....horsepower became popular again and here we see the reemergence of the sports car.

BaronVonBigmeat

The main difference is price. The 3000GT, Supra, RX-7, and 300ZX were all in the Corvette's price range IIRC. Today that would be $45,000. So today's cars cost 2/3 of what they did, but the overall performance is not 2/3. Pretty good if you ask me.

MTLbroker

Ain't deflation great?

murix

You could argue the RX8 is half the cost of what the RX7 last sold for. That is quite a bargain in my book for what you get. And the funny part is today we consider the RX8 underpowered when just 10 years ago it would have been on par with the the high power cars in the market.

Remember when the NSX was considered powerful?

TheColonel

I think within the next 10 years we are going to see a repeat of the 80's where HP is going to fall again due to more stringent regulation and rising gas prices. Also, HP numbers are getting quite high. I mean, there are Corrollas with about the same HP as a mid 80's Camaro IROC-Z. It's got to stop somewhere. HP can't just keep going up. Imagine if everyone on the road was packing at least 250hp? We would all die.

As far as a "Golden Age". I would say so. The baby boomers are starting to retire and at this point many are financially well off. These people (like my father) remember their 196* whatever with a v8 and 350hp. Manufacturers know this and are definately cashing in on the "mid-life crisis" market. In another 10 years when the demographics of the nation shifts, demand for high powered, fun, sporty cars may lessen and affect development decisions by companies. Just my quick thoughts...

KC_Prelude

I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a car enthusiast. Its like the late 80's early 90's except everything is better (styling is debatable) and there is more of it (hp, safety, handling, braking).

Labop

Iassic Aismov did an intersting article on the Golden Age of Science Fiction. Through researching various articles, comparing the ammount of SF stories, commenting on the boom in the mid 40's, and so on. He fouond that each generation usually looks back and says "when I was growing up, that was the golden age of ___". He commented that it didn't just apply to SF and writing. Kind of interesting really. That said, I think the current crop of sports cars is great, especially my RX-8. I love some of the older cars from the previous "golden age". I can't wait to see what all the next one brings.

Senseny

I think we are. Overall the manufacturers are manufacturing sports cars that have higher horsepower, cleaner emissions, technically advanced trannies, braking systems, suspensions and bodies. Not too mention safer. The muscle cars of the previous golden age of sports cars were more brutish and power centered, while the German and Italians were more into power to weight and handling (generalizing of course).
I also believe that this new golden age cannot last for more than another 5 or 6 years. Lets enjoy it while we can!

policyvote

Senseny's hit it on the nose. The advances in engine technology--intelligent ECUs, variable valve timing, electronic throttles. etc.--have allowed for more and more powerful cars that run cleaner and more efficient. Plus, the global corporate centralization going on in the industry is leading to pooled R&D, improved manufacturing, etc. etc.

Looks at the Mazda 3. That combination of styling, economy, and power would have been impossible to acheive at that price point five years ago. Look at the Chrysler 300C, that kind of raw power combined with that kind of luxury is unheard of for sub-$40,000. Those cars both benefit from the corporate globalization of the auto industry.

While I agree that calling anything the "Golden Age" of anything is a little dramatic, today IS the Golden Age of power. Practically every model of car on the road at least has a "performance" trim--and even the ones that don't have far more horsepower than they used to. I have a 2004 Sunfire with a 2.2 Ecotec. It's got 140 HP, 150 lb/ft of torque, and on the highway it averages around 40 real-world mpg. And this is in an $18,000 car!

Peace
policy

KC_Prelude

Yeah I can't see it lasting much longer either. Manufacturers just keep pushing the limits of power and fuel consumption (Hummer H2, when will the insanity end?). In 10 years we will all be driving relatively slower hybrids so enjoy this hp mania while it lasts.

rloewy

I am going to play devil's advocate and say that while there are tons of high-powered cars - there is a clear lack of true, simple, light sport cars.

If you are looking at most of the high-power sport/sporty cars of today - they are all in the 3,000+ lbs range. The exceptions are the Elise, Miata (MazdaSpeed edition specifically) and the soon to be departed (if I understand it correctly) MR2 Spyder. Even the S2K, Boxster and Z4 and treading closer and closer to the 3,000lbs area (I think they are all around 2,800lbs now).

Are there tons of great cars out there for reasonable prices? You bet. But there is a lack of light, agile, "raw" sport cars.

Personally, I hate power steering - there are good power steering systems out there - but they do not compare in my opinion to a good car with no power steering. I don't know if the Elise offers manual steering - but it is virtually impossible to find a Miata (a car that weights less than 2,500lbs!) with manual steering. Why?

Ron.

KC_Prelude

I think there are few light cars because most people do not want to give up luxuries like leather, heated seats, power windows, convertible tops, etc which all add significant weight. Safety equipment like airbags and abs also add weight. If you make a street car too light then it will get crushed like a can when joe douchebag can't see you from his suv and runs all over you. I agree with you about power steering, cars that weigh under 2500 lbs shouldn't really need it.
What bothers me most about new cars is how the manufacturers refuse to let you do your own work on the car anymore. The complicated computer systems and sensors are a pain and when you pop the hood of most new cars over $30k you will see a plastic cover instead of an engine. Pretty soon they will try to take away any chance we have of repairing or improving our cars . They are trying to idiot proof everything (unnecessary expensive TPMS anyone?) while at the same time forcing you to return to the dealer for every little bit of service.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

as far as i know the elise does not have power steering.

ABG

The Elise does not have power steering. There is a brake boosted and antilock and that's about it. Also, if the Vauxhall comes over in the form of the Solistic, you may have another spartan sport car.

But that's why this is the Golden Age of sports cars. You have your luxo sports cars (M3/AMGs), 4 door-4 seater sports cars(RX8), roadsters (Boxsters, Madzaspeed Miata), Rally sport cars (EVO, WRX), regular sports cars (350Z and Corvettes), and the spartans (Elise and Madza Speed).

Also, I don't think there would be too large of a market for spartan or purist sports car in the U.S. Generally speaking, we want things that do a little bit of everything well (aka "best of both worlds"), rather than something that's narrow focused but does it exceptionally well.

And size is another reason the light weight, purist sports cars (which have traditionally be small) may not do well here. From this month's Motortrend Elise test:


Link to scanned article on Elisetalk:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...?threadid=4201

cueball

One of Volvo's recent concept cars had a hood that could only be opened by a mechanic. There reasoning was that the average person doesn't have the training or knowledge to work on a car themselves.

PoorCollegeKid

Article about that car.

StphNieuw

I do think that we are experiencing a come back of sport cars for the masses. After years of environmental concerns it’s nice to see that the manufacturers are producing exciting products again. Some still have a long way to go, were cost cutting is resulting in boring cars but overall its nice to see that companies are selling youthful and fun products.

911SC

When i was young...........When i went to buy my first sports car in the mid to late 70's we had.....
Alfa spider
Fiat X1/9
Fiat Spider
Datsun Z
Mazda RX7
Triumph Spitfire
Triumph TR7 & TR8
Porsche 914
MG
MGB
MGB-GT
MG Midget
I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but that was Sports car Nirvana.
Then again, maybe not

shigginsrx8

that car was designed exclusively by women. some sort of empowering yada yada not represented yada female thing. pretty weak if you ask me

magixpuma

not to be a sexist bastard what exactly are women saying that there not quilified enough to put a new battery in the car jump start it change oil either there saying its beneath them or there to dumb to do it themselves my opinion and it prolly stinks if your a women "my opinion that is"

magixpuma

ahah i just got thru reading it "The vehicle doesn't have a hood -- the whole front end lift ups for easy access by a mechanic, since the designers didn't envision doing much engine work themselves. You fill up the tank using a roller-ball valve opening, like many race cars have, because it's simpler and less messy than removing a gas cap."

Oh no gasoline which actually cleans your hands is to icky what kind of sterotypical crap is that i feal bad for u girls sometimes

RX8Drvr

Sorry I am just getting around to posting here and reviving a dead thread, however I just had a conversation on this point the other day. I am a sports car freak. That is all I have ever owned in one respect or another. I am so glad to see the cycle of the inexpensive import "power houses" coming around again. Back in 1995 I had a 3000GT VR4 and I had friends with Supras and RX7's among others. Then everything seemed to shift to the high powered sedans, the GS400, things like that. I am much more impressed with a 1.3 liter engine putting out 240hp than a big heavy V8 pushing 300. The smaller lighter cars are much more fun to drive and you can go fast in places other than straight lines. I can't wait to see the next round of them in about 8 years.

BTW, anyone think Toyota will jump back into this segment? A new version of the Supra would be nice. Although we would all have to consider throwing a couple turbo's on the 8's to get up to speed if it's anything like the old ones!

ArvinC

...that maybe pointing to a possible return to the sports car segment...no offense to the MR2's and Celica's out there.

First, they were showing a build-up of what a high powered "sports-type" car would look like powered by some form of highly-developed engine using their hybrid technology currently found in the Prius. This concept was shown at the Geneva Motor Show and was called the Volta, in reference to it's use of the Hybrid engine. Car and Driver questioned wether it could be the next Supra.

Second, many car insiders consider the Scion TC the Celica's replacement. Toyota has never really tried to correct this belief. Which brings me to my thrid point: The Solara coupe is Toyota's only GT/Touring coupe now. Unfortunately, it has never really sold very well, especially among men who tend to buy sports/GT cars the most.

Lastly, Toyota has a very big investment in motorsport. They are ever-increasing their involvement (and spending) in CART/IRL and especially F1. Usually, a manufacturer helps justify it's expense by introducing some form of high-performance car that utilizes the advancements garnered from the the racing teams...BMW dumps a form of their F1 V-10 into the new M5, Ferrari builds the Enzo, McLaren/Mercedes builds the SLR, etc. Racing sells cars...Toyota knows this and yet they sell no car that really reflects the effort they put into racing...a new Supra may be that car.

Just some thoughts and opinions...

Arvin

RX8Drvr

Good thoughts and opinions. I will always be a sports car junkie and will always love the feel of accelerating past big block mustangs on a loop on ramp (the look on thier faces is priceless). I just hope our fear of paying an extra 10 or 15 bucks at the pump doesn't stifle our ability to create amazing driving machines from engines that should be found in a civic competitor. I agree with the statement about Toyota, racing inspired cars have always done well in the market ie the S2000. Which raises the question, why would Toyota not build a competitor for that? No offense to the MR2 owners.

Well I feel as though I am babbling on so I will end this, but thanks to whoever out there is supporting this segment of cars, I would hate to have to imagine a world where a 120hp hybrid is the beast on the streets.