TALAN7

This little engine could one day power your car. At the end of the article it mentions that they hope to have a manufacturer on board by end of the year.

Should Mazda look into this as perhaps a replacement for the rotary?
Has the rotary gone as far as it can and do we need this new type of approach to engine design?

http://www.gizmag.com/huttlin-kugelm...m_medium=email

The car is not going to disappear anytime soon and neither is the combustion engine, despite the inevitable rise in fuel prices. We have said it before, electrical motors are an energy-efficient method for driving vehicles but battery technology is simply not going to advance quickly enough for all-electric vehicles to be a practical reality for most uses anytime soon. The near and mid-term future is undoubtedly a combination of compact combustion engine generators charging dense battery packs that drive electric motors - the "range extender" option. We reported on one possible candidate, the disc motor, a couple of months ago. Now, after nearly twenty years of development another candidate is going through final testing and it is a work of elegant genius - Dr. Herbert Hüttlin's Kugelmotor.

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Dr Herbert Hüttlin is a 67 year old flow engineer with over 150 patents to his name, mostly in the field of pharmaceutical production machinery. In 1991 he began to look at the traditional "Otto/Diesel" combustion engine and how its efficiency could be improved. After twenty years and three design iterations the good doctor, with help from Freiburg University, has created a compact spherical motor/generator combination that is radically different from the traditional in-line combustion engine with significantly fewer moving parts. Its mode of operation is simple but hard to describe, the video at the bottom should help to make it clear.

Two opposing curved twin-piston heads rock on the same bearing. When two heads are pushed apart the opposing pistons are pushed together. Because this is four-stroke engine the cycle will be induction (apart), compression (together), combustion (apart) and exhaust (together). This obviously has the effect of rocking the cylinder heads back and forth. Here's the genius bit. On the top of each of the four piston heads is a large titanium ball bearing that runs in a channel that is circular in one axis and a sine wave in the other. The channel completely encompasses the pistons and their rocking causes them to rotate on an axis perpendicular to their bearing axis by "swimming" along the channel.

Genius bit #2. The ball-bearing guide channel is fixed to one side of the spherical aluminum housing whilst on the other side a permanent magnet ring is attached to the rotation axis of the cylinders. Fixed to the inside surface of the enclosing sphere is a ring of electromagnetic coils and the interaction with the spinning magnet causes the generation of electricity.


Genius bit #3. With the principal "kinematics" proven and working, three different variations can be created with simple design changes. The first is the basic generator that produces electricity from the combustion engine as described above. There's also a hybrid form that takes a drive shaft off the rotating pistons for traditional mechanical drive (plus the electricity generation). However the combustion pistons can be disengaged and drive reversed back to the engine (under braking for instance) to rotate the coils and generate electricity, or indeed the electrical flow reversed and the coils become an electric motor producing drive. There is a third variation where the pistons do not rotate but the guide channel is driven around them by the motor coils causing them to rock and become a compressor/pump. It's the simplicity yet ingeniousness and versatility of the arrangement that suggests the Kugelmotor (sphere-engine) has great potential longevity.

Pre-production prototypes of 1.18 liter capacity have been in testing for some months and power output at present is 74kW (100hp) at 3000rpm with torque up to 290Nm (213ft-lb). Dr Hüttlin expects efficiency to increase by another 40% with reduced bearing friction and optimization of the combustion. The engine weighs 62 kg and consists of only 62 parts, while a conventional engine has at least 240. The doctor has set up a corporation, Innomot AG, to license the engine design and expects to have a major car manufacturer on board before the end of the year.

RXeligion

Its an interesting motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7R9x...layer_embedded

I dont know that I can see it reving up like a Wankel, though.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

it's interesting on theory, but it's totally not practical in real world. at least not for another 10-20 years of development, that's if it would even work.

Rotary/Wankel type of engine might not be the best ICE, but it's not the worst, now people are trying to figure out how to get more power out of each cycle. Current Piston type engines can only use about 10 or was it 20% of the energy, the rest goes to heat(wasted). not to mention, Rotary its actually very good running other kinds of fuel, like hydrogen. It's just too bad that this country is loaded with lobbyist from all kinds of industries, hell even Diesel is having a hard time in the US cuz it gives people so much extra mpg and gas companies including corn-based ethanol companies hate it. So we will not be seeing any other fuels in the US anytime soon.

I know TALAN7 you are very disappointed in your rx-8, honestly Mazda did underestimate/overlooked some of the issues, they did fix most of them in S2, but it was kinda late and it already gave a lot of people that bad taste in their mouth, but we all gotta admit Mazda people really did try to make this engine as good as possible. we gotta give them credit for that.

Spin9k

That's some motor .. seems fairly complex, at least watching those graphics. But it seems to have a perfect mix of car oriented capabilities, and veratility - plus a 2-1ot of torque/HP ratio.

Did you notice the other power technology on the site? In the video interview about the wave disk engine, this very believable German guy basically describes (another) amazing rotary engine.

http://www.gizmag.com/wave-disc-gene...-engine/19394/

.. this type of rotary engine is simplicity itself. If it can do what he says... wow .. that would be another earth changing rotary engine product.

It looks like his research was w/some gov help. Damn good use of our taxes if you ask me - developing new forms of rotary engines!

Would be something if some of these actually got to market in the near future.

zoom44

its not theory really. although this electric bit is new the kugel motor is not new. the idea behind it dates back to WW2 i believe and it has been "resurrected" every so often when Herr Kugel made advancements.

It has actually run as a motor in a vehicle. A few years ago Peraves who build the Monotracer
http://monotracer.peraves.ch/ were showing this about and used it in a monotracer and even ran it in a Yamaha scooter http://kugelmotor.peraves.ch/index_en.htm

http://www.monotracer.ch/ click kugelmotor
http://monotracer.peraves.ch/

also search around for "superball motor"


here's the animation from 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CmGJucRDBk

zoom44

oh yeah. look at some of the videos on youtube by "wolfhart engine" or about wolfhart engine. its the same idea but he shows it a s a waterpump etc

here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qjVaixYy08



and more kugelmotor stuff


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRhxctg5mns

TALAN7

Disappointed is correct. But disappointed in like how one is disappointed in their child when they are bad, that is, THEY STILL LOVE THEIR CHILD! You know what I mean. I love my car, but even after all this, I'd buy a new model RX8 in a minute, even 1st year. I wouldn't buy another version of this RX8 (R3 is the same to me).

As far as new engine types go, I think it's time for a major change. it's like, how long will we continue to work with the piston engine that's not very efficient. This IS the time to not just develop, but more importantly implement on large scales new new and better ways of doing things. It's like reworking the same old clay. At some point it's time to start with new clay. IS THE PISTON ENGINE THE END ALL FOR ENGINES?

LifeAfterRx8

iTrader: (17)

Personally,
I believe the rotary is the future of all engines.
Don't think I'm biased towards the rotary but I've seen the Rx-8 hydrogen concept and someone accidentally put diesel in their rotary and it still ran. Compared to other car companies, the development team for the rotary is not even close in size. It's just a couple of guys designing it working for a smaller car corporation. Imagine if it had a larger team or funds to back up the development?

serothis

It's an interesting idea but from the looks of it it doesn't seem like it would scale well. By scale I mean scale in terms of displacement. I mean sure you could increase the cylinder size but it looks to be limited to just the two cylinders.

ELI063

nice.....now how would u mod that just kidding but interesting indeed.

RogueTadhg

The video music could've used something less "Pure Moods" though

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I understand

Sadly, that is kinda true, especially in this shitty economy no one will wanna "try new stuff with unknown future/outcome" There are too many restrictions these days. Pistons is FAR FAR FAR from the best type of ICE but it works. Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel most people, including Mazda, will just try and see if they can make the wheel go faster. This is how SkyActiv works, by increasing the efficiency of Piston engine, it actually works quite well and I think Mazda has one of the best Piston Engines (from efficiency standpoint) right now.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

I'd have to disagree, at least in the typical sense we view engines in cars. The hydrogen rotary was more of a PR thing... it produces significantly lower power and hydrogen really isn't a great "future fuel". Plus, mythbusters put a hose connected to a hydrogen tank next to a carburetor and managed to run the engine for a short period of time with no further modification.

I'd like to see more info on the accidental diesel-rotary story. Accidentally filling your tank with diesel kind of takes an effort, considering the nozzle size should be different. And it definitely didn't run well or consistently for any period of time. The low compression of a rotary is far from ideal to consider running diesel.

I definitely think there is room for improvement in the rotary. It definitely does lack the maturity and attention that the piston engine has received. To expect it would far exceed piston engines is a bit hopeful and makes a lot of assumptions. Maybe it does have a larger future than it's current level of notoriety, but you wont see people switching over to rotaries unless there is a significant benefit at little to no extra cost. The piston design is just too accepted and commonly understood by most people designing engines for the major companies.

Outside of Mazda, I don't see the rotary making a whole lot of new appearances from a well known car manufacturer. The best chance of that happening would be in a hybrid vehicle using a rotary generator, but that's not using the engine to power the car in the traditional sense. I'd like to see the rotary developed by a few more companies and see how it could do in a few different cars, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

This engine is pretty interesting... I kind of skimmed the information on it and didn't catch anything on the size/weight or expected output, but it's always nice to see new (ish) ideas surface. I'd definitely like to see a working model of the design shown in the OP. That would give a better understanding of what could be expected from this type of engine. I'm also very curious about how it would sound...

oltmann

These miraculous new engines seem to be promoted just like the free energy/perpetual motion companies that pop up every few years.

Right... cool... hey Dr. Hüttlin, I think you'll be interested in this:

robrecht

Actually, rotary engines can be made to run very well on Diesel fuel. They are not true Diesel engines because they still employ spark ignition. This was part of the early interest in rotary engines by the military, in that they could be made to run on a variety of different fuels, which can be a variable in war time. NASA did some research in the 60s with Curtis-Wright and John Deere in which they designed a very fuel efficient turbo-Diesel rotary engine. Some claim that a rotary running at its constant sweet spot can be more efficient than a piston engine also running at its sweet spot. That, and especially it's small size & weight and low vibration (especially at start-up) make it a rather promising candidate as a range extender in a series hybrid.

rotarygod

The rotary engine may see a revival in the future but it won't be what many want it to be. We've already seen hints of it in places. That role will be as a generator. The rotary may actually be the ultimate generator. It is obviously very small and has only a few moving parts. It can be made very reliable. Unfortunately for every advancement that Mazda has made in the engine over the years, they have also summarily messed something else up which hurt the reliability. In the 3rd gen RX-7 it was the quality of the water seals and the lack of proper cooling. In the S1 RX-8 it was inadequate oil metering. The engine inherently can be made very reliable. It has been done before.

What about efficiency? They aren't exactly fuel sippers. But they can be! The one thing the rotary is not is efficient across a wide load and rpm range. One that is required to mechanically propel a vehicle. However when you put it in a steady state mode within a narrow rpm and load range, and design it to work only within that range, suddenly the engine becomes one of the most efficient designs in the world. Test engines using direct injection at steady state rpms have recorded a bsfc as low as .26. That is as low if not lower than the bsfc of the largest most efficient diesel engines in the world. This attribute makes it perfect as a generator motor. We've already seen interest in it in this application and even Audi is currently playing with it.

The nice thing about a low bsfc is that there is also less waste energy being lost to heat which is something that the rotary is very good at producing. Rotaries have been built for testing by NASA and the military as well as private firms that have allowed instant changes to the fuel used with no issues. Air cooled rotaries that can run on any fuel have also been built. Direct injection has made many things possible on these test engines.

Many problems start to arise when you need one to power a vehicle directly and compromise after compromise need to be made. Each one lowering it's efficiency until finally the end result is something that has no benefit over the tried and true piston engine. As long as cars remain mechanically powered by an internal combustion engine, the rotary will be at a disadvantage. However if cars all move to series types of hybrid electrics, the rotary will be the perfect engine. With it's small size and smoothness, and with the extreme efficiency possible with one of these engines running in this mode as well as the ability to truly be a "flex fuel" type of engine, it will most likely see it's return in the probably not too distant future. It easily allows hydrogen, gasoline, diesel, or any other fuel to be used with little to no modification to the actual engine design.

The rotary is probably the internal combustion engine of the future through the powering of a generator. It just isn't the engine of the present.

SARRAS

Giant Klick Klacks AKA Clackers - way to go!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/years/1971/toys2.shtml

Oh dear....

Wind Dance

iTrader: (7)

This is an interesting documentary to check out about how the US is controlled by the gas companies..

ASH8

Mazda to change their Rotary for this...who are you kidding....a BIG NO...