AbusiveWombat

How do you know the weight of the MS6? I didn't see one listed anywhere.

Ike

Manufacturers claims are pretty bogus. Also like others have pointed out I bet Mazda is being a bit cautious with its claims. If the Mazda 6 comes out with 270hp then I think it will run neck and neck with the ForesterXT and Legacy GT (which are underrated). That makes it a good amount faster than the RX-8 in trap speed as well as timed speeds. Mid 5s 0-60 and very high 13s with around a 100mph trap speed is what I expect from the MS6, they fall short of that and I and many others will be disappointed.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

im so surprised at how fast the subies are with their numbers that are always comparable or lesser to inlines and v cars. could it really be the boxer engine is a superior design to inlines or V's...im beginning to think so, especially since my favorite manufacturer,porsche, uses them.

s13lover

The faster Mazda makes the MS 6 and MS 3, the faster the MS RX-8 is going to have to be. Maybe thats why the US hasn't gotten either of the 2 previous versions of the MS RX-8; because they haven't really been that different in performance and would have been out shadowed by the MS 6. Just like the stock RX-8 has to be faster than the 6, the MS will also have to follow the same idea. Meaning that if the MS 6 hits 60 in 5.5 sec. then the MS RX-8 will probably do it in 5.0 sec.

Or I could be wrong, but I hope not.

Dan_

It IS odd yes.....

Dunno what to say.....

crossbow

The 100:0 really comes into play when you compare it against other car's in its price range.

I'm not talking about mazda's max torque distribution ability, but its standard setup. 100:0 is FWD...and the front wheels don't have an LSD. (Only the rear).

Even the jaguar X-type has a 40:60 standard distribution (which can then transfer torque around). Its not about the fact that the ms6 can't be awd, its the fact that its setup like a FWD car, when in reality it should be setup like the G35x (which is 0:100 standard, and can transfer to 50:50).

Having autocrossed in a variety of vehicles (and been driven in many more) I can definitely say having a either a RWD bias or directly neutral standard distribution is far nicer then a FWD bias. FWD is for consumers...not drivers. (Yes I know this is ironic coming from a FWD family sedan owner). I mean really, who cares about mileage and efficency in a mazdaspeed. If you want mileage you'll get a standard 6i...not a 270 hp turbocharged AWD monster. Its not like you guys bought the 8 cause you care about filling up at the pump. I don't drive a 1974 grand am pontiac with a 6.6 liter v8 because its "economical", I drive it because it can powerslide without pressing any buttons...other then the pedal on the floor.

I'm still holding judgement on the car, and I'm a bit biased against it (being as I don't want to trade in my 6 to get one), but I really think they could have gone with a better system.

And please don't compare it to a 3,409 lb VW. (Standard 6i mtx is 3045 lbs) If the ms6 ends up that heavy, I'll be extremely disappointed. I'd hope it wouldn't gain 400 lbs in the transistion.

The whole reason I'm even on this site is cause I'm so disappointed in the ms6...and I'm watching and reading news about the rx8 so I can jump to a car with Right Wheel Drive....mmm wheres that supercharged 8 again... :D

PoorCollegeKid

Both Subaru and Porsche have a tendancy to under rate the power of their cars, which makes them look slower on paper than they are in real life. Kind of like GM and its FBodies, or BMW and most of its cars (except the Ms). It's not really about superior design, it's about conservative marketing.

Ike

True, but damn I love the way the Boxer sounds. And its quirky little shimmy and shake just makes me love it that much more, some hate it but I think it's wonderful.

DreRX8

Not worried one-bit--the MS6 is only further validation for me that Mazda will have a more powerful 8 in the coming years.

AbusiveWombat

Ok, here's the article for those that are interested in reading the comparison of the VW R32, EVO, and STi
http://vortex3.rely.net/artman/publi...0.shtml?page=1
A quick synopsis, the R32, which has a very similar AWD system, was only 1 second behind the EVO and STi on TireRack's road course. Considering that the EVO and STi come with better tires, the gap could have been a bit closer. Not bad for a car with an extra 200 lbs and down 31hp to the EVO and 60 hp to the STi.

crossbow - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and wait for the reviews. I can't wait to dig this thread up in a few months with a big "I told you so". :-)

Rotary Titus

oh so it's 100:0 until wheel slip eh?? so did they just pull the drivetrain from the Tribute SUV or something then??? hmm... cuts costs but......

and offtopic, hey Ike, does the Forrester SUV or other subarus have low range gear or hill descent control? Nowhere on the internet was I able to find that

Feras

iTrader: (1)

thats why porsche rules (subaru is cool too)

Icemastr

Don't forget about the Mazdaspeed 6's new direct injection power plant, supposedly 15% better MPG over if it was regular injection, better cooling, faster turbo spool up, should be interesting to see how large of a turbo they put on it and how well it responds to modifcations once it gets released.

crossbow

Supposedly they took it from the Euro 6 Wagon, which is a 2.3 Liter with AWD. That would also explain both the distribution and the fact the transfer case is water cooled...big torque difference between the AWD wagon and the Ms6.

Abusive,

Thanks for the link! And ya, as I said earlier, I'm probably just embiddered that I'll have to trade in again . The main qualm I have about the article is they didn't put laptimes on it. They just stated (was a 9/10th of a second off) or what not. Well thats not much at all if its a min and 30 second course...but if it was 50 seconds a lap...you get the picture...(much larger difference).

In an autox where most courses take 55-65 seconds...beating someone by a second is usually considered "pwn3d!"

Technically given those three car's, if the ms6 can keep its weight down (and oh PLEASE have adjustable front camber), it's going to really beat down the competition with its superior suspension setup. (Doublewishbone baby!)

AbusiveWombat

Ohh for those that want to estimate the MS6 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The VW R32 runs:
0-60: 5.9
1/4 mile: 14.2 @ 97mph
weight= 3400 lbs
hp = 240

I expect that the MS6 will be the same weight or lighter with 30 more horses under the hood. Plan on this puppy smokin' an RX8 in a straight line.

DreRX8

Those are the fastest R32 time I've seen what's your source--all the magazines that I've seen have put it closer to 6 1/2 ticks. Either way--the MS6 will be faster than the RX8 in a str8 line.

AbusiveWombat

vwvortex

Lyer

-I hope you are right, but that might not be the case. Look at what happened with the evolution and the 3000GT, the evo became mitsu's flagship car. But, mazda still has the seven, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

DOMINION

Yea the 8 is not a straight line car, but it was made fot the ride home...

DreRX8

With Mitusbishi--the EVO has always been their flagship; even in Japan where the 3000GT was the GTO. So I wouldn't compare those two--especially since Mitsu is bleeding red ink.

m477

Yup, this thing will smoke an 8. But the 8 isn't a straight line car, and it doesn't need to be to make sales. It's kinda like the Miata, there have been other faster cars mazda has made during the Miata's lifetime, but it's still the best selling sports car ever, and one of the most fun cars to drive ever.

But alot of people here seem to be in serious denial and freaking out over the MS6, and I can't help but laugh. It is going to be a fast, sweet, fun car... but its existence isn't going to make any other car less fun to drive.

DOMINION

"Denial"? "Freaking out" No way. If I wonted a fast straight line car I would have got a C5.
Just wait till the SEMA show. Then we can FI all day long.

Ike

The C5 handles pretty damn well, like I say all the time you can have both. I've been hearing about FI for the RX-8 for the last 18 months and have yet to see any real results. FI for this car still has a long ways to go and it's going to be very expensive for pretty moderate gains, at least at first...

snap-on

FYI

http://www.mazda6tech.com/images/speed6_spec.pdf

http://www.mazda6tech.com/images/speed6.pdf

s13lover

Hmmm....Black Cherry. :D