Mazda RX-VISION Concepts
11-06-2015, 01:32 PM
#576
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
the vision and the non wrecked le mans cars were hi jacked on the way to commiefornia and are sitting in my garage but dont say anything
11-08-2015, 09:35 AM
#579
Registered
Possibly. But I don't think Mazda would commit so strongly to the rotary unless they were sure they could actually deliver in a reasonable amount of time.
11-09-2015, 11:46 AM
#583
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
11-13-2015, 02:23 PM
#586
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
There is strong speculation that the 'Vision" will be shown as a working prototype in 2017.
Talk also of a dual clutch (NO!), RWD rear Transaxle !!!!!
For the record: (Paul), IF Mazda can actually, really make the Vision...PLEASE Mazda just get it right!...spend the time to make certain, test to make certain, put the engine in multiple mules and take a dozen to every continent and insist your Mazda executives drive and test these mules for a year, return them back to Japan and pull them down....do it properly.
As I have said before many times the Series 1 RX-8 should never been launched in the hurry it was because Ford told you to.
Mazda will be crucified IF they do not get this mechanically (engine) right (Vision).
BTW: Ford has sold ALL remaining shares in Mazda....yeah!
Talk also of a dual clutch (NO!), RWD rear Transaxle !!!!!
For the record: (Paul), IF Mazda can actually, really make the Vision...PLEASE Mazda just get it right!...spend the time to make certain, test to make certain, put the engine in multiple mules and take a dozen to every continent and insist your Mazda executives drive and test these mules for a year, return them back to Japan and pull them down....do it properly.
As I have said before many times the Series 1 RX-8 should never been launched in the hurry it was because Ford told you to.
Mazda will be crucified IF they do not get this mechanically (engine) right (Vision).
BTW: Ford has sold ALL remaining shares in Mazda....yeah!
11-13-2015, 02:29 PM
#587
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Ash: I had the opportunity to spend Saturday with quite a few Mazda engineers and part of their MNAO Senior Management.
Believe me when I say the common theme behind the RX Vision is to get it right the very first time out.
They know they won't get a 2nd chance to make it right, especially with the RX-7 name.
A lot of time is being directed at getting a working prototype and making sure it hits their expectations or it'll never see the light of day.
I think they know what they need to do and I'm excited to see this through.
Believe me when I say the common theme behind the RX Vision is to get it right the very first time out.
They know they won't get a 2nd chance to make it right, especially with the RX-7 name.
A lot of time is being directed at getting a working prototype and making sure it hits their expectations or it'll never see the light of day.
I think they know what they need to do and I'm excited to see this through.
11-13-2015, 02:35 PM
#588
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
As I have also said before Mazda were just dumb not to put a Renesis in the NC/Miata when the series II renny came out (2009), would have cost stuff all,
exact same platform to take the RX-8's beefed up parts (suspension).
I still don't understand WHY they don't do it.
The ND while OK, sales are not that great (apart from US) and that will die fast.
F**K Mazda people want more POWER!.
Every time I drive my NC I think this would be superb with a factory Rotary.
It is made for one.
Mazda once said the Rotary will be used for sports cars only back in 1979, well what do you think the Miata is?, and yes, I get the marketing BS about the Miata, but everyone has moved on, other brands have tried convertibles too.
Its not that 'exclusive/pure' anymore.
Anyway I am dribbling.
11-13-2015, 02:55 PM
#589
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Ash: I had the opportunity to spend Saturday with quite a few Mazda engineers and part of their MNAO Senior Management.
Believe me when I say the common theme behind the RX Vision is to get it right the very first time out.
They know they won't get a 2nd chance to make it right, especially with the RX-7 name.
A lot of time is being directed at getting a working prototype and making sure it hits their expectations or it'll never see the light of day.
I think they know what they need to do and I'm excited to see this through.
Believe me when I say the common theme behind the RX Vision is to get it right the very first time out.
They know they won't get a 2nd chance to make it right, especially with the RX-7 name.
A lot of time is being directed at getting a working prototype and making sure it hits their expectations or it'll never see the light of day.
I think they know what they need to do and I'm excited to see this through.
The '50' 'Skyactiv Rotary' engineers are actually the exact same team who designed the Skyactiv bangers in Japan, there is only 1 senior engineer with past RE experience all the others have now retired, including all the 'old engine assemblers' (Japan).
All great to see the younger guys/girls take over...but, as I said get it right.
I have heard it all before, there was no excuse (apart from Ford and the era) that Mazda put out the RENESIS I, it was an abortion, the archaic MOP system of basically 40 years ago, engine overheating issues, early ignition coils, this is all basic 101 stuff, NO EXCUSES.
Sorry, but all "engineers" outside of Japan are just testers, feeders and yes men to back to MMC, these guys tell us want we want to hear, they are short of any REAL details as they just don't know, until they physically see a prototype/model.
11-13-2015, 03:22 PM
#590
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
We Mazda nuts know what Mazda can do.
IF/WHEN the Vision comes out, I don't care what it is called (it will be an FF or FG), RX-7 or RX-9, what is extremely important is price, and what is the target market, how many can they make/sell, who will buy it, etc., etc.
What made the RX-8 unique was that is can and does comfortably seat 4 people (like RX-4), the RX-8 brought in so many new RE owners, until gas prices and engine reliability crashed.
No 2 door really does this, straight away the market is limited, I hope Mazda has thought this one through.
What really concerns me apart from engine reliability, price, we don't want another FD.
Quick story, the other day I took an old friend on a long 2 hour drive in my RX-8, she was the passenger, great roads, good music on and off, I prefer to listen to the RE, (stuff the music).
Her sister has a late model Mercedes-Benz convertible V8 thing, 'it is massive' (about $250K here new).
Anyway, she said to me after a few hours (without me asking) just how much more comfortable and enjoyable my RX-8 is/was compare to her sisters MB.
She said your car is made for long distance driving.
Her (63 yo) sister would be horrified to hear what she said.
IF/WHEN the Vision comes out, I don't care what it is called (it will be an FF or FG), RX-7 or RX-9, what is extremely important is price, and what is the target market, how many can they make/sell, who will buy it, etc., etc.
What made the RX-8 unique was that is can and does comfortably seat 4 people (like RX-4), the RX-8 brought in so many new RE owners, until gas prices and engine reliability crashed.
No 2 door really does this, straight away the market is limited, I hope Mazda has thought this one through.
What really concerns me apart from engine reliability, price, we don't want another FD.
Quick story, the other day I took an old friend on a long 2 hour drive in my RX-8, she was the passenger, great roads, good music on and off, I prefer to listen to the RE, (stuff the music).
Her sister has a late model Mercedes-Benz convertible V8 thing, 'it is massive' (about $250K here new).
Anyway, she said to me after a few hours (without me asking) just how much more comfortable and enjoyable my RX-8 is/was compare to her sisters MB.
She said your car is made for long distance driving.
Her (63 yo) sister would be horrified to hear what she said.
I volunteer to stick one in my '8 and track the snot out of it. 
11-13-2015, 04:36 PM
#592
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
11-13-2015, 11:49 PM
#593
If the SKYACTIV-R engine proves to be reliable, it would be cool if we could retrofit and swap them into our RX-8 instead of the Renesis. Of course anything is possible if you have enough money.
11-14-2015, 01:02 AM
#594
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Sorry I can not see any retrofit as being possible as the new Skyactiv R 'should' be and will be light years ahead of the RX-8 in terms on electronics management, ignition, fuel delivery and other add on (electric), as there is no other way Mazda can 'perfect' the Rotary for regulations past 2020 without massive electric control modules.
A Skyactiv Mazda 6 has 6 separate E Control Units, 2 x Engine, 1 x Transmission, 2x Rear Body, 1x Front Body, then all the safety and interior (comfort Control Units).
Every pair of wiring is monitored/sensored and assigned diagnostic codes.
Nothing has changed, Mazda has to achieve real fuel economy gains, (not the crappy 30% Renny improvements claimed in mileage @ engine idle!!, who drives at idle or 800 RPM?), the RX-8 is no more 'fuel efficient' than the OEM 4 barrel carburettor 13B first used in the 1975 13B RX-4 with REAPS system, I remember a car salesman friend and his new canary yellow RX-4 4 door demonstrator, he joked and laughed how he got 19 MPG as it's best MPG when thrashed around. Apart from Renesis Fuel Injection, maybe the RX-8 achieved a real 5% mileage improvement over 35 years, but has much higher horsepower, so I guess one can say real gains if one uses a fuel to hp ratio, but who does?
The Vision must have a minimum MPG of 25.
Must have at least 300 HP.
Must conform to emissions until 2028.
And above all must be 'engine reliable' and use less engine oil, I really don't know how they can as all RE's using dino fuels for ignition must consume engine oil for seal lubrication.
There are many hurdles for these new engineers to overcome.
So far after 7 years my RX-8 consumes no more than about 1 litre (just over a quart) every 5000 miles.
Skyactiv gasoline banger engines are currently using as much engine oil, another problem for Mazda.
A Skyactiv Mazda 6 has 6 separate E Control Units, 2 x Engine, 1 x Transmission, 2x Rear Body, 1x Front Body, then all the safety and interior (comfort Control Units).
Every pair of wiring is monitored/sensored and assigned diagnostic codes.
Nothing has changed, Mazda has to achieve real fuel economy gains, (not the crappy 30% Renny improvements claimed in mileage @ engine idle!!, who drives at idle or 800 RPM?), the RX-8 is no more 'fuel efficient' than the OEM 4 barrel carburettor 13B first used in the 1975 13B RX-4 with REAPS system, I remember a car salesman friend and his new canary yellow RX-4 4 door demonstrator, he joked and laughed how he got 19 MPG as it's best MPG when thrashed around. Apart from Renesis Fuel Injection, maybe the RX-8 achieved a real 5% mileage improvement over 35 years, but has much higher horsepower, so I guess one can say real gains if one uses a fuel to hp ratio, but who does?
The Vision must have a minimum MPG of 25.
Must have at least 300 HP.
Must conform to emissions until 2028.
And above all must be 'engine reliable' and use less engine oil, I really don't know how they can as all RE's using dino fuels for ignition must consume engine oil for seal lubrication.
There are many hurdles for these new engineers to overcome.
So far after 7 years my RX-8 consumes no more than about 1 litre (just over a quart) every 5000 miles.
Skyactiv gasoline banger engines are currently using as much engine oil, another problem for Mazda.
11-14-2015, 06:48 AM
#595
40th anniversary Edition
ASH8, you bring back memories of my own two RX4s;, a coupe and the sedan. Used to race the coupe with 4-barrel Holly carburetor mod and slight engine porting. Not fuel efficient,but loads of fun (only a four speed back then) !
I agree, the new RX7 must have at least 300hp, which is certainly doable with the Skyactic-R direct injection and 16X dimensions. And yes they have to meet the new tougher world emissions. I will be 2017 before they have rolling prototypes testing around the world. My bet is the car, if they solve everything and have it bulletproof reliable, will be introduced as a 2020 model to commemorate Mazda's 100th anniversary. I will buy it for sure, two or four-seater, though I feel it will only be a two-seater, which I know will alienate many buyers. But they are shooting for Porsche territory with this car.
I agree, the new RX7 must have at least 300hp, which is certainly doable with the Skyactic-R direct injection and 16X dimensions. And yes they have to meet the new tougher world emissions. I will be 2017 before they have rolling prototypes testing around the world. My bet is the car, if they solve everything and have it bulletproof reliable, will be introduced as a 2020 model to commemorate Mazda's 100th anniversary. I will buy it for sure, two or four-seater, though I feel it will only be a two-seater, which I know will alienate many buyers. But they are shooting for Porsche territory with this car.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 11-14-2015 at 06:50 AM.
11-14-2015, 07:25 PM
#597
Rockie Mountain Newbie
Mine (2.5) hasn't used any measurable oil during it's 7 5k mile oil changes, and it's not experiencing fuel dilution that leads to me thinking that the oil level is staying high.
BC.
11-15-2015, 09:57 AM
#598
1% evil, 99% hot gas.
iTrader: (21)
I've never understood why people are so concerned about boinger oil consumption. So long as it isn't blowing smoke, passes emissions (where applicable) and doesn't have other problems, WFC? 
I've really never understood why people care about oil consumption on a Mazda rotary, even after tirelessly explaining to them again and again and again and again (and again) that it's designed to use oil. Idiots.
I've really never understood why people care about oil consumption on a Mazda rotary, even after tirelessly explaining to them again and again and again and again (and again) that it's designed to use oil. Idiots.
11-15-2015, 01:26 PM
#599
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Dealers are instructed to do a oil level test and see if consumption is above 'normal' and re- check and get customer back after 1200 miles to confirm.
11-15-2015, 01:36 PM
#600
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
I've never understood why people are so concerned about boinger oil consumption. So long as it isn't blowing smoke, passes emissions (where applicable) and doesn't have other problems, WFC?
I've really never understood why people care about oil consumption on a Mazda rotary, even after tirelessly explaining to them again and again and again and again (and again) that it's designed to use oil. Idiots.
I've really never understood why people care about oil consumption on a Mazda rotary, even after tirelessly explaining to them again and again and again and again (and again) that it's designed to use oil. Idiots.
Yep it is hard, I guess idiots and ignorance will always exits.
The mentality that because it uses a little oil, something is wrong.
Even Dealers (sorry particularly US as your warranty ratio is one of the highest in the world per car for Mazda) tend not to investigate a customers concern or complaint correctly and just throw on a new part thinking it will fix whatever the issue is.
Hence the warranty Dealer to MNAO 'pre-approval' authorization bar value continues to be lowered at Mazda before many repairs will be paid for or fixed.
See TSB's.