Mazda outlines weight-loss program
11-12-2009, 11:10 PM
#1
Mazda outlines weight-loss program
Mazda Motor Corp. will reduce its vehicle weights by at least 220 pounds beginning in 2011, with a combination of lighter-weight materials, smaller vehicle footprints and new engineering processes, a top executive says.
The typical Mazda vehicle has gained 80 pounds with each successive redesign, “mostly in larger tires and wheels, and safety equipment,” said Robert Davis, senior vice president of product development and quality for Mazda North American Operations.
For example, the curb weight of a base 2003 Protege sedan was 2,634 pounds. The Protege evolved into the redesigned, 2,696-pound Mazda3 sedan in 2004 and ballooned into the 2010 Mazda3, which weighs 2,868 pounds.
Reducing a vehicle's curb weight by 220 pounds will improve its fuel economy 3 to 5 percent, Davis said in a speech here to the Motor Press Guild.
But there are sacrifices with every measure taken. And the conflict between increased fuel economy and safety regulations -- while maintaining Mazda's zoom-zoom ethos -- have engineers struggling to satisfy three masters.
Using lighter materials, such as aluminum or high-strength steel, is more expensive than traditional steel. Creating a more ideal body structure requires a long lead time for engineers. And new processes, such as finding a way to bond aluminum to steel, require technological breakthroughs.
Said Davis: “Carbon-fiber roofs and hoods are great for a BMW M5, but they are not viable in our cost structure.”
Davis said Mazda is looking to reverse the trend of “dimensional creep,” in which each successive redesign of a vehicle grows incrementally. He said next-generation Mazda products may lose as much as three inches in overall length -- mostly because of smaller, more efficient engines -- while smarter interior packaging will leave most drivers unaware that the interior has shrunk only marginally.
http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...NEWS/911129996
The typical Mazda vehicle has gained 80 pounds with each successive redesign, “mostly in larger tires and wheels, and safety equipment,” said Robert Davis, senior vice president of product development and quality for Mazda North American Operations.
For example, the curb weight of a base 2003 Protege sedan was 2,634 pounds. The Protege evolved into the redesigned, 2,696-pound Mazda3 sedan in 2004 and ballooned into the 2010 Mazda3, which weighs 2,868 pounds.
Reducing a vehicle's curb weight by 220 pounds will improve its fuel economy 3 to 5 percent, Davis said in a speech here to the Motor Press Guild.
But there are sacrifices with every measure taken. And the conflict between increased fuel economy and safety regulations -- while maintaining Mazda's zoom-zoom ethos -- have engineers struggling to satisfy three masters.
Using lighter materials, such as aluminum or high-strength steel, is more expensive than traditional steel. Creating a more ideal body structure requires a long lead time for engineers. And new processes, such as finding a way to bond aluminum to steel, require technological breakthroughs.
Said Davis: “Carbon-fiber roofs and hoods are great for a BMW M5, but they are not viable in our cost structure.”
Davis said Mazda is looking to reverse the trend of “dimensional creep,” in which each successive redesign of a vehicle grows incrementally. He said next-generation Mazda products may lose as much as three inches in overall length -- mostly because of smaller, more efficient engines -- while smarter interior packaging will leave most drivers unaware that the interior has shrunk only marginally.
http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...NEWS/911129996
Last edited by alnielsen; 11-12-2009 at 11:12 PM.
11-13-2009, 03:12 AM
#2
The Slow and the Serious
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I wonder if they will swallow their pride and can the bloated Camry rip-off 6 and start selling the ROW version here. That would save some considerable weight and restore the car's personality. They tried to move it upmarket, they failed, now get over it and do what's right. 
11-13-2009, 10:33 AM
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Just a thought that popped in my head while reading this...Why is carbon fiber so expensive? Is it a complex manufacturing process or is the raw material itself just really expensive?
11-14-2009, 04:28 AM
#4
when Davis talk about a shrink of 3 inches IN SIZE i'm happy. Euro mazda6 is too big for being sometin' like a sports sedan.
better engines , less weight and less dimensions. see old Demio/2 vs. New Demio/2
11-14-2009, 08:43 AM
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Great to hear that our manufacturer has recognized it, and is opposed to it!
The process itself is probably most of the cost. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but just making the fibers looks more expensive and complicated than any other metal product, and then they actually have to weave it into sheets, similar to how clothes are made, and then bond those sheets into layers with resins and such.
Wiki: (follows a Discovery show on how it is made that I saw)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber
Wiki: (follows a Discovery show on how it is made that I saw)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber
Each carbon filament is made out of long, thin filaments of carbon sometimes transformed to graphite. A common method of making carbon filaments is the oxidation and thermal pyrolysis of polyacrylonitrile (PAN), a polymer based on acrylonitrile used in the creation of synthetic materials. Like all polymers, polyacrylonitrile molecules are long chains, which are aligned in the process of drawing continuous filaments. A common method of manufacture involves heating the PAN to approximately 300 °C in air, which breaks many of the hydrogen bonds and oxidizes the material. The oxidized PAN is then placed into a furnace having an inert atmosphere of a gas such as argon, and heated to approximately 2000 °C, which induces graphitization of the material, changing the molecular bond structure. When heated in the correct conditions, these chains bond side-to-side (ladder polymers), forming narrow graphene sheets which eventually merge to form a single, jelly roll-shaped or round filament. The result is usually 93–95% carbon. Lower-quality fiber can be manufactured using pitch or rayon as the precursor instead of PAN. The carbon can become further enhanced, as high modulus, or high strength carbon, by heat treatment processes. Carbon heated in the range of 1500-2000 °C (carbonization) exhibits the highest tensile strength (820,000 psi or 5,650 MPa or 5,650 N/mm˛), while carbon fiber heated from 2500 to 3000 °C (graphitizing) exhibits a higher modulus of elasticity (77,000,000 psi or 531 GPa or 531 kN/mm˛).
...
Carbon fiber filament yarns are used in several processing techniques: the direct uses are for prepregging, filament winding, pultrusion, weaving, braiding, etc. Carbon fiber yarn is rated by the linear density (weight per unit length, i.e. 1 g/1000 m = 1 tex) or by number of filaments per yarn count, in thousands. For example, 200 tex for 3,000 filaments of carbon fiber is three times as strong as 1,000 carbon fibers, but is also three times as heavy. This thread can then be used to weave a carbon fiber filament fabric or cloth. The appearance of this fabric generally depends on the linear density of the yarn and the weave chosen. Some commonly used types of weave are twill, satin and plain.
...
Carbon fiber filament yarns are used in several processing techniques: the direct uses are for prepregging, filament winding, pultrusion, weaving, braiding, etc. Carbon fiber yarn is rated by the linear density (weight per unit length, i.e. 1 g/1000 m = 1 tex) or by number of filaments per yarn count, in thousands. For example, 200 tex for 3,000 filaments of carbon fiber is three times as strong as 1,000 carbon fibers, but is also three times as heavy. This thread can then be used to weave a carbon fiber filament fabric or cloth. The appearance of this fabric generally depends on the linear density of the yarn and the weave chosen. Some commonly used types of weave are twill, satin and plain.
11-14-2009, 07:54 PM
#6
In addition to being low volume, there is a high demand for the substance in a number of industries, aerospace for example. High demand, plus low volume drives the price way, way up.
11-22-2009, 07:36 PM
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It's a mix of both. Carbon fiber takes a few specialized processes to make. What makes it hard to make isn't the processes themselves, but setting up the operation. Start-up costs are astronomical. There are a few cloth makers, but only a couple of companies that actually make the fiber.
In addition to being low volume, there is a high demand for the substance in a number of industries, aerospace for example. High demand, plus low volume drives the price way, way up.
In addition to being low volume, there is a high demand for the substance in a number of industries, aerospace for example. High demand, plus low volume drives the price way, way up.
11-23-2009, 08:19 AM
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considering the rx-8, in its various trim levels, comes in between 2900-3000 lbs wet, it's really unlikely that mazda will be able to find another 150-250 pounds in weight savings unless it uses expensive materials like titanium and carbon fiber. if whatever the 16x goes into comes in at 2900 lbs, however...that'd be awesome. 260-275hp in a car that light would be perfect...i.e., what the rx-8 SHOULD be.
11-23-2009, 10:17 AM
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Although, the idea of the 16x in 2750lbs of sexy (RX8) is the ultimate platform, IMO. Would this mean price goes up, more than it already is?? $23,000-$35,000 right now, please correct if I'm wrong on price. Besides the use of carbon fiber(expensive), if and or when MAZDA decides to go through with it, It will be like seeing a Mcdonalds on every corner lol, just kidding. Could you think of all of the options we as owners will have while remaining NA. I mean, tuning alone will be............ IDK?! Can't describe it, but to start with a platform like that would be sort of amazing/great IMO. 16x,2750, 270hp, etc.
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