bse50

430 scuderia and 458 italia, rofl!
The gt3 rs is light but not nimble, you have to take it by the scruff of its neck.

Uhm... i think i've got the wrong price range!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

looking at that FB post and its replies. I got the following opinion & conclusion.

1. Looking back in history, when they increase displacement, the hp increase was pretty significant. Just look at FC, from original 1.1 12A of 100 hp, to the later 1.3 13B NA 160 hp. Now with today's much more advance technology, direct injection, aluminum side & int housing, etc. I expect HP to be in the 300+ range.

2. People who said "I want a turbo 4/piston" in the Rx is simply retarded. and there are a lot of these "retarded" morons.

3. They need better cooling/airflow in the engine bay. not that I have any problems with my FE or FC. but to be honest the FC cools better than FE. forget about FD.

4. make the suspension as good as the FD. Make it a real sports car that will blow the others away.

5. although 4 seats is nice, I actually prefer 2 seats. for weight saving reasons. if they have to do 4 seat, at least offer an option of just plain cloth seat.

6. more carbon fiber parts will save weight, but it will also keep the price a bit higher to keep morons/kids away.

7. I need manual transmission, and sports car without one means garbage to me. DSG/GR6/whatever shifts faster? how about I don't give a ****? Nissan sells GT-R with GR6 only because the tranny R&D cost was expensive + they know no one will buy the one with GR6 if they have the manual tranny option. which is the reason why Nissan have the 6 Sp Manual tranny but they never release it.

SlickRick51586

I don't think the 16x is going to give the car a huge power bump.
Maybe 260 HP and 220 ft/lb torque, and I think that's a generous estimate.

While I'm not going to rule out a 3 rotor 24x, I think that would hurt the EPA estimate MPG that the 16x would have gained over 13b renesis.

I don't think we are going to get a CVT transmission either, Mazda isn't putting them in the SKY. If their forecast for piston engines doesn't include CVT, I don't see it in the RX either.

I could see them offering a light weight base 16X, a Premium (heavy) version leather NAV etc, and if we are lucky a Mazdaspeed turbo.

For the turbo, they could do it without hurting the estimated mpg too much if it spooled late. So you would get your decent city and highway mpg cruising, but stomp the pedal and you still get power to red-line (match the turbo to the existing power curve).

bse50

Well, the power estimate may be correct but you should keep in mind that an optimized renesis can already put down something more than 255 crank hp. Re amemiya says 280 but let's say 260 so mazda could theoretically just bump the power by optimizing the renesis.
The displacement isn't everything new in the 16x. You have narrower rotors (13a style i think), a different trochoid to enhance torque and direct injection. A better transmission alone would also waste less power.
280kg over 1250kg would make up for an interesting ride.
The problem is the market. People just care about the sheer numbers because they aren't drivers.
Drivers want a cornering machine

lateralus

iTrader: (1)

Yes, this haha

But other than the ridiculously expensive cars, the best examples of light and nimble but powerful are some member's cars (anyone who has managed to get over 300hp)... If people on here are able to make their cars run with those type numbers, mazda can make a car run with those numbers from the factory. Which is what I would like to see happen with the next gen.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

higher displacement will give any engine more power.

1.3 to 1.6 is a pretty significant increase. so I wouldn't be surprised if its at 300hp already

Im sure Mazda got 16x working already, they're just working to lower the emission. otherwise it will be like the MSP now, just a shy a 10 years and it doesn't work with the new emission standard anymore(Europe)

jaymzs66

My thinking is... Slight Increase in fuel economy -> probably requires more displacement -> lower the revs to match, but keep it at least above 7500. Since this might drop performance, try to make it up by lightening. I know the 8' is only about 3000 lbs, but if they could somehow achieve a drop of 200-250 lbs with all the above, I think it'd fit in the new category the FT-86 is essentially creating. For the love of god, go minimalist, not feature based. I'm sorry, I'm an RX8 owner and I love my car, but it's not going to compete with an A4 or 3 series, it just won't... so I hope they stay out of that market.

Blacknightz

Suicide Doors?

Love em....................or Hate em?

MattMPS

4 or 5 (yeess FIVE) door style and total lenght of 4,70 meters ( 186 inches)....

call it rx-9 and i will sign , build also an hardcore rx-7 lightweight 2 seater for younger and sportier users...

that's my 2 cent for Mazda

bse50

That would be great, we could swap cars when needed :p

realBlackSunshine

iTrader: (1)

they have been planning on a 2012 release of the rx-9 for a looooong time, look it up on youtube there are articals on the even better rottary powered 2012 rx-9 that date back to 08, also plenty of hater vids...........IF YOU DON'T LOVE ROTARY POWER .........U CAN SUCK MY BIG TOE!!!!!!!!!!! that's what I always say anyway

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

What?

Sleepy-z

The person who runs the facebook page does not have that much inside info, he just runs the websites and facebook pages. I messaged him to see what he does. That was no tease, I bug the engineers and higher ups when they walk through work about it and haven't heard a peep. If you want him to post a question on the Mazda facebook page he will post it honestly, someone not associated with Mazda may have messaged him to do that. BTW the one thing I want them to change on the rx8 or whatever is next is they need a low low oil level sensor that kills the motor so the owners(not on rx8club.com) stop running the motors dry and destroying them.

To answer the question, haven't heard a thing, you will know about it the same time I do they dont distribute info to us too often. We occasionally get a car early but its already in magazines before it comes to us, we just get to drive it but its rare. Were too far away from the headquarters to get the good stuff.

Sleepy-z

That looks like the shinari concept car, base for the mazda 6, may be wrong though.

TALAN7

Musts!

More power, torque
Better fuel economy
More reliable

I'd love the Shinari as the new RX8/9. It looks way more classy than the current 8. Almost too classy. The Shinari would be a good supercar for Mazda meaning turboed rotary at around 400 hp, maybe even hybrid, (to compete with Corvette, M3, GTr, Shelby, Z28 etc. Of course it would have to be around 40-50 grand).

neXib

The 8 looked way ahead of it's time in 2003-2004. Much more so than eg. the RX-7/MX-5. That's probably also why I feel more people like it now than they did in 2004-2005. So I think the design is in safe hands to be honest.

Torque? I'm not pulling any caravans :P

I hope it will actually be sellable in Europe. So it shouldn't have too much power. Rather 150g CO2 per km and 300hp than 380hp and 250g CO2 per km for me.

shaunv74

This is what I wrote. In the event anyone cares.

Rotary turbo ~300hp+4 person seating+razor handling+light weight ~3000lbs+25 mpg min. highway. I don't think you can compete in the segment without these 4 things to start with.

If you did a 2 seat sportscar/ 4 person coupe option on the sam...e platform (ala Cayman Boxster). I think that would give you a solution for your entire market.

I could do with either a coupe style hatchback opening or a notchback with a wider opening than the RX8 so I can fit stuff the size of the trunk into the trunk.

The RX interiors have always felt unique, sporty, and upmarket for the segment. I think this a key attribute to continue. Some people may want a more spartan interior so give them the options to be a spartan racer or a more luxurious daily driver.

Last thing. Get the rotary seal longevity right. You've known how to do it since '91 but missed a few tried and true things in the S1 RX8 causing too many warranty engine replacements (I'm on my 2nd). You need to get this right to prove that you can make the rotary reliable for 150K miles like the FC's were.

77mjd

All I can think of is the MX-5 and pretty much anything by Lotus.

For a future rotary, I'd even take the current R3 design if they could up the HP by about 50 and give it 27+ mpg highway. That thing would be an absolute monster. I'm surprised no companies are trying to emulate Lotus. Really lightweight, small engine, good mpg, and goes like hell. I suppose that's hard to do affordably.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

I'm assuming you meant both of those to be positive things. If that's the case, the second part would not be considered a positive. The last thing these companies should want is to limit their target demographic. Sales numbers are already on the low side for sports cars, so they need to do anything they can to keep a large target market.

bhop

The MX-5 is not powerful but small, nimble, and light. The car would have to be around $30,000. I don't think there are any cars that are "powerful", light weight, and nimble but would also cost $30,000.

The next RX would be a winner as the RX-8 is already nimble and is one of the best handling cars if not the best handling car for around $30,000. Plans for power increase whether it's with the 16x or something similar were already in the works. Just lose the back seats, 2800lbs? My RX-8 touring model read about 3100-3200lbs (I forget) but that will not cut it. I think the standard is around 3000lbs, please correct if wrong. I think 2800 is doable.

lateralus

iTrader: (1)

Most Lotus don't have a whole lot of hp either actually.... But like I said earlier, my theory on upping the HP on the next gen RX is that since members on here have been able to get over 300hp with aftermarket upgrades, Mazda can do the same from the factory on the next generation. While keeping it a light and nimble car that handles extremely well.

Plus, a lot of sports cars these days have a choice between a lower hp version for lower cost, and a higher hp version that is slightly more expensive (like how you can choose between a V6 or V8 on some cars). I think it would be pretty cool to see Mazda do the same thing... Probably not have two different engines, more like have one trim level that comes with a turbo from the factory...

That would be made even better by the fact that like was said earlier, there could be a convertible "Spyder"... And to follow in the tradition of the R1, R2, and R3 from the 7s and 8s, there could be an R4 for the next generation... Which means if you bought the top of the line one you would get to say.....

"I drive an RX-9 R4 Turbo Spyder"..... God that sounds good. I think I might just go ahead and start telling people that now.

pking1122

I think the next rotary engine has to have more than 300hp to be relevant. I'd say it would have to start around 350hp, with an Mazdaspeed Rotary Turbo with 420hp. It doesn't make much sense to release a car that would have the perception of being inferior to, say a 370Z, which will have been released 5-7 years prior to the release of the next Rotary. If it's under powered by today's standard, there's no way it will be successful toward the middle to end of its production cycle. Make mileage 26-28 mpg, and CARB compliant in 2016.

ShinkaEvo

iTrader: (3)

Just for those who curious about the magazine...(article not shown)
Summary of the article:

The next RX will be based on the Shinari concept (photo shown)
16x is at its final stage of development
Expecting around 300hp with 30% up in MPG. (which is around 25mpg or so?)
The over all design is still in development, expect to release in 2013.

The magazine also covered the next skyline and Z as well as some other cars.
If my memory serves me right...

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I agree with you most of the way. I hate the name 'R3' for the hopped up RX8 and would be upset with R4 for an RX9 if that were ever made. Since an RX8 was not supposed to be the successor to the RX7, why did they find it necessary to link it through this numerology. The 09 RX8 RS should have been called just that or R1 even; I don't get the thought process of Mazda North America's marketing people. I still desire to see two cars, RX7 and RX8, get developed. The RX8 would retain it's 4 passenger capacity and 3000 lb weight while using 16X and taller gearing. It would be more mature and take on the Lexus IS, Infiniti G37 and BMW 3 series and do well (I know Mazda can do it). The other car would weigh no more than 2500 lbs. I'm not calling for the return of the FD but in fact something more affordable and lightweight.

Paul.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Now dealing with known facts: The only thing that I can reveal about the next engine is that it is still maintaining a 9000 rpm redline. Let that swirl around in your head a little bit

Paul.